YattaOkasan

From Joe Marino's chart last night its a late third for DHop. Also am wondering abit about the how of that deal. would need to agree to a restructure during the draft or cardinals would have to eat cap. We can't just take him on our roster without some financials working through right? seems tough to do while on the clock. I put nolan smith but would love DHop too.

I like this move but prove to me he is better at stopping the run. The data doesnt agree for the games he played for Edmunds. I think the only game where you can argue he stopped the run better than edmunds is the Detroit game last year. His other games in substitution of Edmunds (2021 Colts, 2021 NYJ #1) would suggest hes worse than Edmunds.

Butch Byrd should be in every post. I can’t entertain anyone. Dude is still our interception leader with 40. 5 time all star! Love a lot of the other names I’m hearing but they haven’t accomplished nearly as much as butch.

Appreciate that context that I missed. I agree Miami should throw the kitchen sink. I think they still have to run but need some explosive plays to keep up. Sorta why I think they run a Hill wildcat package.

I am sorta expecting a Tyreek wildcat package. With how limited they are they need something new. And if you took Skylar off the field and were able to get Tyreek the green dot some interesting things could happen. Get him lined up quick, look at the defense and tell him the play before 15 seconds. Agree. That tweet is a classic example of correlation doesnt equal causation. Teams with the lead run the ball to shorten the game. Teams behind throw to extend. That does not mean they got their lead cause of their running effectiveness. I really dont want any trick plays this game for several reasons. As you say they need to hope the defense creates turnovers. Why give them plays that are more risky for turnovers. if we run boring conservative offense (ball out quick and run plays), we might not boat race them but we do take away their best chance for them to beat us. Deep shots have Josh standing in the pocket against hte strength of their team. Also why give away the trick plays this week. Save them for a better team. **I misread mjt post. These are my thoughts for what Bills O might do so will leave up. I agree with mjt that Fins need to run trick plays to stay in it.

Crazy to think josh and mahomes are the 5th and 6th highest paid QBs. Gonna be weirder when Lamar, burrow, Herbert all get paid more. If two vets sign silly contracts josh won’t even be top 10

Agree and is even bigger if we don’t have roughing the kicker Yup. I make the analogy of Diggs is the Ferrari and Davis is the commuter car. You ask the commuter to do things you wouldn’t ask of the Ferrari. Also I don’t care how old you are NFL snaps take a toll. So to double them is not a small thing.

I think it’s snaps. He has played nearly double the snaps from last year. I think it has taken a toll on him considering how much and who they ask him to block.

Thanks. Appreciate the context I didn’t know what 49ers ran. Was countering some points from the other poster about running cover 2 against Miami. He thought that was bad cause of the timing offense miami runs. I don’t disagree with the thought but our results disagree we can’t run cover 2. He said something about 49ers success and man coverage and I didn’t realize. I would expect us to continue to play nickel as taron has played every snap against Miami this year. With mostert having a thumb issue I think we stand a better chance in the run game.

Niners did fine I agree. But to my point they didnt do as well as we did either time in terms of pass yards. i agree fins will throw to the spot where they expect a hole. but i very much disagree we dont mess with the receivers getting to the spot. you think the ONLY way to do this is by press man? Frazier knows how to do it by disguising and rotating coverage post snap. Frazier knows where they want to put the ball and puts someone there they didnt expect. If you cant run cover 2 with Jaquan and Hamlin then why did they hold Tua to his second lowest output of the season (186 yards!) in the first meeting. The idea that you have to run press man and cant run cover 2 against them is wrong. Agree we got crushed in the run game in second game, but thats a better reason to say dont run cover 2 against them than that we cant stop the pass with it. In fact, I think we went to more cover 1 cause we were getting gashed in cover 2. What happened when we went to man in order to bring a safety into the box, was long passes to Hill and Wilson (others too i cant recall). You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. The army we have can stop them better with cover 2 than it can with cover 1 (though we are pretty good in cover 2 man or cover 1 lurk/rat).

There are plenty of reasons why shakir doesn’t get snaps. He has gotten blown up on many run or screen plays that resulted in a TFL. McKenzie despite being small is at least able to get in the way as a blocker. I would also say McDermott trust McKenzie more and youre confusing that with “earned it”

Sorry what about our cover 2 shell doesnt work? we held them to 171 and 217 yards in the two games so far. Thats 2 of their 5 lowest outputs for the season. Including only Tua starts thats 2 of his 3 lowest outputs. I think youre referencing what the Chargers did to Tua, which at 127 was obviously great, but everyone else that has tried to replicate that has not been as good as we have done. If we dont disguise cover 2 or mix up coverages some then yeah i worry we would get carved up. But frazier has shown he can contain tua. 188 rushing yards (most of the year) scares me and run fits from cover 2 are harder, but you seemed to imply that cover 2 couldnt stop their pasisng attack.

Yes but last two years Mahomes has thrown 13 and 12 INT. That bumps Int rate up to about 1.9. Josh is at 2.3% for career and 2.4% for the past two years. Mahomes recently has been more susceptible. I dont really disagree about elite QBs seem to do better against us (I think thats what youre saying). But i take exception to the idea that 214 pass yards per game is bad. Were 8th in Pass yards allowed with more attempts than any of the teams below us. Also 178 is a crazy number. Are you saying our pass d isnt crazy efficient this year (true) or that our passing defense isnt efficient enough (not true)?

So it was a conditional 7th from what I have read. when all the dust settles yeah it may not be for anything. It happens. Andre smith a few years ago was similar. Andre came from Carolina for a conditional late pick. Andres condition was make the team. Bills cut him and then signed him an hour later when they moved someone to IR. Cost nothing to get Andre from Carolina. for Marlowe the only condition for a pick at the deadline that I could think is playing time. He’s been inactive since we got him despite cam Lewis and Jaquan Johnson not playing well. As soon as Marlowe is active he’s in over both those guys. I think they kept him inactive to not tigger the condition on the pick and still as insurance against further safety injury. I think we see him going forward and I’m hoping beane did it for free. He is a wizard.

I think pulling Marlowe out of a hat is as good as we could expect. Got a suspicion he might not have met the terms of the conditional 7th round. If so then getting Marlowe for nothing is a coup.

I agree josh is amazing at pocket presence and it’s not talked about enough. So I think you convinced me the stats are overstating the OL play. I would mention though that josh has shown the pocket presence from 2020 so the year over year stats can be used for comparison rather than league wide like I was doing with season ranks. Josh definitely is choosing to leave clean pockets though making his own angles tough (he so good at tough throws though). I think a thread on OL might be needed as there’s a lot to talk about it feels. Thanks for the discussion

I put Miami on several misses from skill players. Dirting a throw to McK that gives us the lead. Even the strip sack was singeltary not being able to lock holland. jets was clearly interceptions. Yes josh got out of the pocket for one of them but it was clearly on him at that point. The second was from a clean pocket. Also tackling. Nah. I don’t pin those losses on the OL I see thanks. just check the stats on awful OL. I think it’s a similar “criticism”. Carried over from years past. Pressure rate is down a third this year. We were good at sack last year but bad at hurried pressure and hits. We’re now middle of the pack for all of them. I think he’s getting a cleaner pocket. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/advanced.htm check the pressure tab

Agree. Point might be that with back surgery he didn’t get the chance to correct them

Don’t disagree the WR aren’t holding their end of the bargain. I had them as 5-10 in the league before the year. Now I think they are 10-14. Crazy cause I still consider diggs top 5. An average WR2 would probably get them back to 5-10

I guess. Trying to dissect this a bit is hard. First thing in my mind is his time to throw has stayed high. I think we also still run a ton of option routes which are not anticipation throws. I actually don’t consider a criticism. Having the ability to wait until peeps have separation shows the ability to have great arm strength. Allows adjustment to post snap coverage changes. Lastly I think it’s how he can convert 3rd and Josh Allen’s. Hard to anticipate 3rd and long plays versus short plays

Yeah that’s the challenge is pff is the only source really. I think more OL focused peeps have some better ones though. But PFF also has morse at 51. I don’t think that checks out

Back to the OP. I think it’s how Josh plays. He throws when he sees separation as the ball travels that separation decreases and the YAC is diminished. In other offenses that are based on timing the ball is thrown before separation. When the ball gets there the separation is maximized and thus more YAC. I don’t know that Josh will ever be a high end YAC guy. I hope for average.

Lol well have to disagree on this point. I think he’s average to just below. Need to find a good set of stats to reference. But not in NFL is comical. You clearly don’t watch other teams enough let alone what backups look like.

You mean his weakness is speed rush? Yes I find that strange too. But bills have a type on OL. Joe Marino said their average RAS is 9.3! probably shave some off aged vet Saffold but he was athletic when he came out.

Those are the weak points of our OL but I think you are making them out to be worse than they are. Though ive come around to Saffold is being overpaid so would be happy to get some young blood there. Lastly how do you see them as the reason for us losing? Our run game is humming and our TOs are coming from a clean pocket more often than not. How will they cause harm? Penalties is the only stat I havent looked up. Everything else isn’t a liability.