D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

As I said they have huge holes in non-sexy places. That means they're not supremely talented.

Agreed, he's a better run blocker than I thought he'd be. He has potential to be a pretty good all-around TE, if he can hold onto the ball. Johnson has been a weakness, doesn't pressure and shoved around vs Run.

You'd think they were the 70s Steelers, 80s 49ers and 90s Cowboys all wrapped in one! They have alot of holes.

Uh No-supremely! Really?They have huge holes in non-sexy, non fantasy football areas. Need to look deeper at the roster.

They were not loaded across the board, that is your opinion, but likely wrong! Lets look at the 2014 team which had the better record Yeah Watkins and Woods are better at WR, but Chandler at TE and the DL was great, I'll give you that But, your assertion they were loaded across the board is ???????? I mean you can have Orton and his 87.8 QBR, Yes I know Josh is only 82.9 Boobie Dixon and FredEx who at 33 was down to 3 1/2 a carry at RB Searcy and Williams at Safety, McKelvin and Graham at one corner vs Hyde, Poyer, Johnson Spikes and Preston vs Edmunds and Milano Even the Oline Urbik and Pears at Guards vs Spain and Feliciano Seantrel Henderson at tackle C'mon man This is quite a line to swallow even from you. I seem to remember you bitching about the team in 2014 at every turn too. Bad take

Well said!

No way I trade Allen for Mayfield, and I don't believe many, except the most strident Mayfield supporters would.

So what do you think big guy, you didn't say? Mayfield Bills record, Allen Browns record. You implied it would be something different. Explain instead of asking questions.

I think both sides are arrogantly ignorant or over confident (especially some analytics guys). There is room for both and it should be viewed that way it is more productive overall. I sometimes feel each of the sides have the insatiable need to promote their thing. But, when I hear an analytics guy speak in absolutes, he is way too overconfident. Likewise, when I hear an All-22 guy speak condescendingly to others (PFF is the worst), they are just into self-promotion. Most people realize the best stuff is somewhere in between. I mean if the numbers and film don't match up, why not ask....WHY??

Yes has improved alot. He has tremendous upside still and will likely continue to move towards that because of his makeup, barring serious injury of course. I want to know who the bums are that said no? I could probably guess. I mean there is still the 300 yard crew around, you know the ones who evaluate QB play based on total yards. There is actually a guy on Bills Wire who thought Sam Darnold had a better game than Josh on Sunday. LMFAO. One guy had a111.6 rating another 85.4, guess who? Nick Wojton-"It’s hard to say Allen had a bad game. He did what was asked. But his game still wasn’t good. A push seems right. Allen finished the game 14-for-20 passing for 160 yards and a touchdown. He also had eight carries for 12 yards and a rushing score. For comparison sake, the Jets lost to the Dolphins but quarterback Sam Darnold was still 27-for-39 passing for 260 yards with a touchdown and interception. OK, he didn’t win, but that stat line is much better."

Yes and win the turnover battle.

So the fans play a role in solving the shortcomings...got it

Was Dawkins that bad?, I mean I haven't noticed him stinking up the joint!

Wait the Raiders released him, but can he still play??? Someone??

I would realign everywhere. Rivalries be damned .Call the divisions what you must. NYG,NYJ,BUF,NE WAS,BAL,PHI,London TENN,CLE,PIT,CIN MIN,KC,DEN,SEA CHI,INDY,GB,DET NO,ATL,DAL,HOU MIA, JAX, TB,CAR LAR,AZ,SF,LV

I find it interesting that the vocal group that spoke in absolutes earlier about the perceived advantage are now visibly absent

That's your perogative, I'm hoping for as unbiased as possible.

The Bills were a 6.5 over/under win total and the Browns were are SB contendor preseason, so the talent gap was perceived to be enormous before 2019. Is it all due to coaching, culture and chemistry that Bills are 6-2 and Browns are 2-6 or was the talent pretty even to start with? Yes its possible, but I'm only able to ask 3 questions in the poll.. so I went with the three most appropriate ones. Thanks

So far it looks like Browns skill guys and edge rushers vs Allen, and the Bills back 7, the big guys are running neck and neck.

I'm not a professional pollster and I'll try to stay out of it this time. I tried to ask more closed questions and it became pretty obvious people wouldn't trade our roster for the Browns. The reason being that the perception is the Bills are better coached, have a better culture and are more productive. The reason I brought this topic up is some seem to believe it is a foregone conclusion the Browns are more talented. The supposition that they have better skill guys and edge guys is fair and I grant that. I would like people to weigh the rest of the roster, including QBs, Big Uglies and Back 7. My hypothesis is that when a deeper look is taken at the whole teams that it is far more even than people realize. We shall see. Thanks.

Because rankings alone don't tell the story. Efficiency needs to be accounted for as well as volume. For example, Browns pass defense is low in yards because everyone runs on them. 100+ passer rating means they are carved up by the other teams, never the case against the Bills at 74 rating. Not trying to be a dick, just point out the obvious.

Where the hell you get those numbers from or is your interpretation wrong? Bills Passer Rating allowed 74.8 Browns 103.6 ; Bills passing yards allowed 184.6/gm Browns 216.3/gm, +31.7/gm more! I might add that Bills have allowed 131 pts to Browns 205. On offense is it is pretty even Browns 5.2 carry/121yds Bills 4.6 129 yards, Passer rating Bills 81.2/ 206.6ypg, Browns 71.2/225 ypg. The volume is balanced out by the efficiency and the Bills have scored more 158-152. So a big NO the Browns aren't better statistically in every category on offense and the pass defenses aren't equal, and the run defense which has been our weakness is better than the Browns, and our points are better. So nice try, but a big wrong. Jeez this Browns team may have a bigger halo effect than any team in history. WHY??? And, you know what, not saying the Bills win, its the NFL either team could win Sunday. But, c'mon be thoughtful and present accurate arguments.

I keep reading that the Browns are more talented team, and I can't help by ask why is this a given? Is it a case of highly visible skill /dollar position bias? Examining for a second, Granting Chubb, Beckham, Landry, maybe the TEs receiving wise, Garrett and Vernon on the edge likely have an edge over Gore, Singletary, Brown, Beasley, and our Hughes, Murphy, Lawson etc. But looking at the rest; Our QB Allen gets the nod over Mayfield, Our Oline is perhaps a slight edge with Dawkins, Morse, Spain....I mean Bitonio is good and Hubbard is a vet but Greg Robinson...c'mon Our secondary...again c'mon not even close, Interior DL Phillips, Lotulelei, Oliver, Taylor are at least a wash vs Ogunjobi and Richardson...I mean if you throw the stats into the evaluation they're rush defense is way worse than ours 4.9/carry vs 4.4 and 141 yds vs 111 yds. Our LBs Edmunds and Milano rate an edge over Schobert and the rookie Wilson. Our pass defense allows passers a rating of 74 vs 103 and yields 30 fewer yards a game! In summary, Yes the Browns receivers, running backs and edge guys are better athletes and make more money but Bills win the less glamorous areas O-Line, Defense across the board, have more depth, have a culture that doesn't commit the penalties the Browns do or the turnovers, play as a team. Oh and our QB is a better player too, check the numbers!!! I mean the real question is would you trade our roster for theirs- not me!

MWI is a serious offense!!but with Crown we'll make an exception

They are very different players. I think Josh is a rythymn passer and Daboll screws him up by having the offense dawdle around. He goes into his slow down mode and snaps the ball under 5 seconds for a run up the middle. Rinse and repeat.