sven233

As you all know, like many here, I was not a fan of the Coleman pick. I had him rated as a late 3rd or 4rh rounder. The fact is, if you can't get open in college, you are not going to get open in the NFL. And that was shown last year. Outside of a couple of plays where he was kind of schemed open and a couple of slants, he didn't make a lot of plays within the structure of the offense. He made a couple plays deep down the field on scramble drill type stuff, but within the design of the play, it was rough going. He was slow and had terrible footwork at the top of routes which allowed defenders to close extremely quickly if he did create a half step of separation. The way I see it, to get anything out of him, 2 things need to happen. First, you have to use him on routes where theoretically he can win (using him out of the slot more as well). That means slants and short to intermediate stop routes. Look.....we would all like him to become a complete WR and win down the field. I just think that he is limited physically and will never create the separation you would hope for. That leads me to the second thing..... Coleman himself needs to realize he's not going to beat any CB in a foot race down the field and he has to make the decision to play physical at the top of routes. With his size and strength, he needs to start playing bully ball to create separation. Put him in the film room and have him watch every snap of Anquan Boldin's career. Boldin couldn't run worth a darn either, but he had a long, successful career just bullying DBs with his big frame and strength. I am not sure Coleman will ever develop into anything other than a depth WR at best. In a dream scenario, he figures it out and he becomes a WR2 option, but he has a long way to go to get there. Rooting for the guy to do it because he seems like a great kid and I always want guys to succeed. It would help our offense dramatically if he finds a way to take a big step this season.

It all depends on your definition of "elite". In my opinion, that's top 5 in the league at your position. None of the names on this list are top 5 at their positions in the league yet. That said, Brown is close in my opinion. He had games last season that were absolutely dominant. Thought he had his worst game of the season in the AFC Championship so that doesn't help his case. But, he's right there. Benford did receive 1 All Pro vote if I remember correctly. He's very good. "Elite"? Not in my opinion. He's got great numbers, but I don't look at him like a true shut down CB that you will have travel with the best WRs in the league. He's great in our defensive scheme, though, which is all you can ask. As for the other guys on this list, they all have elite moments, but are not elite players. They are very good, but not elite.

That's OK, Josh..... I would too if I was you.

There are rumors going around that it will be Bills vs Bengals on Sunday Night Week 1. THey said it on the Buffalo Plus podcast yesterday and I have seen it a couple other places too. If true, man......probably no tougher matchup for our overhauled defense to have to work the kinks out against right out of the gate. Not sure if this is what Allen will be part of announcing or if it will be something else, but it is something that's out there.

This is an interesting exercise because it all comes down to whether these guys are going to be used in a way that plays to their strengths. For example, Kincaid is a perfect example of this. This guy was a beast in college running up the seams and running deep crossers. Her was a mismatch in college because of how well he ran and the hands he has. That's one of the reasons I was high on him coming out. But, fast forward to how he has been used in our offense, especially early in his career and all they do is ran screens, flairs, and short stop routes over the middle. Heck, they were barely using him down the field and it made absolutely no sense. Now, I will say as the season went along last year, they eventually started using him a bit more down the field than they had been, but it took forever to get there. Coleman is another one. Everyone knows I am not a big fan of Coleman's game. I didn't like him in college and I am just not sure he will ever be more than a WR4 in the NFL. That said, I am not sure we used him to his strengths last year. Too many times, we just sent him down the field in hopes he could out-jump someone at the catch point. Coleman running long routes is laughable to me. We all know he's slow and can't create separation. So, why are we sending him on deep routes down the field? The best way Coleman can help us are on short slants, short stick routes, and intermediate back shoulder throws along the sidelines. The other way he can help is in the scramble drill by just trying to make a play when Allen hucks the ball up (ie. the Jets game at the end of the year jumping out of the stadium for the TD where Allen basically just threw up a prayer or the Lions game where Allen scrambled out right and Coleman just too off down the sidelines and made a play out of structure). But, for whatever reason, the slant pass is not a big part of this offense. Seems like we see it like 5 times a season whereas other teams use it more than that in one game. I think Coleman can be a player on this team, but you have to play to his strengths and mask his shortcomings. So yeah.....I'll give you my list, but I am going to base it on talent and skill set assuming that we find a way to play to each player's strengths. 1. Shakir (The one guy we actually use correctly. He is schemed open. He's smart enough to find holes in zones. Great hands. Great vision. Sneaky quick/fast. Keep on using him exactly how he has been used.) 2. Palmer (#2 and #3 on my list may flip here because we haven't seen these guys with a QB like Allen. I think both of these guys are going to be good in our offense. Palmer has decent size and speed and has shown he can win in man coverage which we didn't have really anyone do last season.) 3. Moore (As mentioned above, I can easily see him making a bigger impact on this team than some do. I am higher on this signing than many and I think there is a ton of untapped potential here. Quite honestly I can find a path for him to be the best WR on this team by the time it is said and done. I think those projecting him to be fighting for a roster spot at the bottom of the depth chart are flat out wrong. He may be the most physically talented WR we have in terms of tools.) 4. Kincaid (I said my piece about him above. I think he has been miss-cast in the offense for the most part so far. But, if they figure out how to use him as the miss match he can be, he could shoot up this list. I still think he has everything it takes to be one of the best receiving TEs in the league. Just split the guy out and let him run. He can't block.....probably never will be able to block. But neither can Kelce. Just use him down the field.) 5. Coleman (Again.....talked about him above. Just not sure he will ever make the impact we all want him to. He should embrace his inner Larry Fitzgerald and just put on a lot of mass and go out and play bully ball. Fitz was never a blazer, but he was physical at the top of routes and just shoved guys around to create separation. Might be his best option to turn into a great player someday.) 6. Knox (We all know what he is. No explanation necessary.) 7. Samuel (This is a tough one for me because I don't know how bad he was hurt last season. I had much higher expectations for him going into last season. I thought he was going to be used all over the field including in the backfield. But we never got a great look at this because he got hurt before the season ever got started. So, he is going to start down here, but could absolutely shoot up a few spots quickly if we find out that the injury was worse than we knew.)

I'll let the ranch comment slide for now because he probably hasn't gotten a chance to try real Buffalo style blue cheese. I have had blue cheese in other parts of the country and I will just say that not all blue cheese is created equal. I have had some outside of the Buffalo area that was pretty much inedible. Buffalo blue cheese is just different and until he has a chance to properly try it, I won't hold the ranch thing against him. That said, he seems like a great dude with a personality to match. I hope he's coachable because having someone like Tre to learn under couldn't be a better match quite honestly. Here's hoping he's great!

Going to be a tough question to answer because our defense has basically been completely overhauled. It's going to be completely different than it has been the last few seasons. The defensive line alone, even with a Oliver and Groot returning to starting roles is going to look completely different with the depth we now have, especially after week 6 when the suspensions are lifted. Our secondary is going to look completely different than it has, especially if Hairston and Bishop win starting jobs. With the young talent influx we are going to have, I think we will actually see a change in overall philosophy as well. I don't think we are going to see our soft zone that we have played almost exclusively the last several years. I think with the signings they have made, they are going to try and force the issue a little bit. Bosa is obviously a huge X factor in all of this. If he's healthy the entire season and is the dominant player he has been in the past, this defense is going to look a lot different. I think their goal is to rush the passer with big, fast, athletic guys that will run probably 8-9 deep on this roster and force the QB to get rid of the ball quickly against corners that can now play both man and zone. And, especially if Hairston is that dude like we all hope, and Bishop takes a giant step forward, our team speed on defense is going to really show. So, until we see how it looks on the field, I am not sure I am ready to say who the toughest matchup might be because I do expect our defense to play a lot differently this season. And, as long as 17 is healthy and running the offense, I do expect them to be able to score enough to win most weeks. So yeah......going to wait and see what this is all going to look like before I start trying to figure out how we match up against teams.

All this talk about what happened with WGR and Beane. I have made my comments on this in the main thread, but based off of everything that happened since that aired, it makes me wonder if the whole thing would have never happened if we knew that Moore was coming in for a visit BEFORE the interview instead of 20 seconds after it aired. I mean, I think all the WGR guys were saying is that we probably could have used at least 1 more guy in the WR room to try and make life easier for Allen. I think the signing of Moore is kind of a perfect fit for what the Bills want to do on offense......positionless WRs that play in different packages depending on the game script. Hollins played like 60% of the snaps last year and I think all of us would say he probably was the 4th or 5th WR at best on the roster in terms of labels. So, with Moore coming in, I could absolutely see him slotting into the Hollins role. I think we can also all agree that Moore is more talented than Hollins overall. So, if the WGR guys would have known that the visit was happening and the signing was a possibility, I don't think the conversation on Monday every happens. Anyway, I like this signing a lot. It's one of this low to no risk, high reward types of signings. I think the dude has talent and we haven't seen his best because of the teams and QBs he has played with. I think he can get some separation and he likes to live in the intermediate areas that Allen likes to target. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he plays a more important role in this offense than many are expecting. Palmer is new to the the team and, while I like that signing too, we don't know what that is going to look like yet. The jury is still way out on Coleman. I have no reason to believe expectations should be real high with him. I wasn't big on him in the draft and until he proves differently, I think a middle of the road WR is distinct possibility for him. And Samuel has never been able to stay healthy for an entire season. So, with Shakir being the only reliable guy in the room, I could absolutely seeing Moore emerge as a guy to get a good amount of snaps this year. Regardless, I like the signing. We needed another guy in the room and he can run. So we'll see what happens.

Here's the thing......they're both right. They have different points of view as to where the WR room is, but they are both right and both have good points. BEANE - The Bills did score the 2nd most points in the league last season.....most if you include the Playoffs. - There are other positions on the team that you need to have to get the most out of your WR group. - Palmer is a good player and should offer more than what Hollins and Cooper gave you last season. - You can't pay everyone and every position big money. - The Bills put up enough points in the Playoffs to win those games last year and the defense let the team down and that's what needed fixing the most. WGR - Yes, the Bills scored the most points in the league last season, but it was only after having to make a trade early in the season after Baltimore and Houston brought their safeties down and manned up our WR corps and shut them down all over the field because they didn't respect the WR corps ability to beat them over the top. You realized that if you didn't do something, teams would continue to do the same thing. - Other teams with star QBs play to their strength and make it a point to surround him with top WR talent to help him be even better. - Cost controlled stars at premium positions are something you should strive to have. Draft these premium positions every year in hopes to get a superstar under a rookie contract. - Not sure it is right to expect huge steps forward from Coleman and Kincaid is the right thing to do. If they don't take the next step, this team probably won't have enough fire power in the end. - Teams react to what you do every year. Now that you have an entire season of this offense on tape, are you sure that the same basic WR corps that you had last season replicate the same success if the turnover margin isn't the same. Look.....I am not here to say who's right and who's wrong. I guess, in theory, I am always on the side of you can't have too many great WRs on your team. It is in my draft philosophy that you always draft premium positions high in hopes to find stars at those positions under cost controlled contracts as much as possible and I definitely have WR high on that list. It is no different really than one of my other draft philosophies of never drafting a RB high because I think the talent difference between the best ones (Barkley, etc) that are drafted super high is not as much as from someone you can draft in the 3rd-4th round (Cook, Davis) that is worth the contract difference. I will also say that this year wasn't the year to be pounding the table for WR to be drafted high. But I think wanting to bring in as much WR talent as possible in order to make Allen's life easier isn't the worst thing to do. Yes, you can look to the points scored and everything last year. But how much of that is Allen making up for the deficiencies in the WR room. I am always one to ask the question about how many of our big passing plays were made within the structure of the offense and on time in the play as compared to Allen putting on the cape and making those huge plays outside of structure many times while within 1 yard of the boundaries. There are many ways to win in this league. Some teams like the Eagles and Bengals pay top money to big time WRs. We are going the opposite route and going with the "Everybody Eats" philosophy. I actually like the "Everybody Eats" concept, but in order for that to be successful, you have to have everyone on offense buy in because guys know that nobody is going to put up huge numbers in that type of offense. The other thing you need are WRs with different skill sets that open up different levels of the field so everyone does have a chance to eat. As of today we don't have anyone on this team this is going to scare any team or DC deep. And that goes to the point above where the Ravens and Texans realized this last season and brought their Safeties down and manned up our WRs and clogged the intermediate levels where Allen loves to live. And that's the worry.....will it happen again if we don't find some vertical speed and explosion from another guy that can constantly beat man coverage. Anyway, this Beane interview and the spiciness it had wasn't on my Bingo card for today, but I am glad it happened. Like I said, both sides have great points and it makes for good conversation. I will say this, though....it is pretty funny that Beane came with all this vinegar defending the WRs on the roster and then 2 seconds later the Bills announce Moore is coming in for a visit. I will also say Beane came out and planted some pretty firm flags as to where he stands on this. He better be right because there are some very public receipts out there that will be coming if this team comes out of the gate slow and can't score enough points because the WRs can't get open. Let's just hope it all works out.

The benefits of a speed WR far outweigh the ability to hit on the long ball consistently. It's about opening up other areas of the field. Allen's best throws are not 60 yards down the field on go routes. He also isn't the best thrower of the ball at the LOS or under 10 yards down the field. Allen separates himself in the intermediate parts of the field. His big plays come in chunks of 15-30 yards. So just tell guys to get open in that range, right? No....it's not that simple. Just look at what happened last year. The first few games were great offensively. "Everybody Eats" was brand new and we came out of the gates fast because teams didn't know what to expect. But then we played a team with a real defense in Baltimore. They had several games on film and figured out exactly what we were doing. They realized that we had no threat down the field so what did they do. They brought their safeties up closer to the LOS and played man coverage. They basically said fine....we'll give you the deep shots all day and let's see if your WRs can beat us. We couldn't and that in turn clogged the middle of the field and made it difficult to move the ball because they knew there wasn't a chance a WR was going to beat their CBs down the field. Houston then did a lot of the same types of things. That's when we knew we had to do something to try and stretch the field and went and got Cooper. While he was a shell of his former self, he was still able to stretch the field deeper and make enough contested catches where things loosened up a bit again. Say what you want about Allen's completion percentage down the field over 50 yards. You know who else isn't accurate that far down the field? Most every QB in the NFL including Mahomes. He missed Worthy probably 10 times last season when he was open down the field. But you know what? He kept throwing it and teams HAD to respect it even if they weren't completed every time. Having a guy that can scare the pants off a DC and force them to keep their safeties deep and over the top changes everything underneath in the intermediate parts of the field where our guy loves to live. That said, my fear, and a lot of people's fear, is that the same thing that happened last year, happens this year. We'll come out of the gate with a few good games on offense because there will be some new wrinkles and Palmer will be new and an unknown. Then, teams will have 3-4 games on tape, see what we're going, and make the necessary adjustments. If we aren't at least testing teams down the field consistently, and everything is within 20 yards of the LOS because we don't have anyone that can separate down the field again, we're going to be in the same spot we were last year when we had to get desperate and trade for Cooper. That's why heading into this offseason getting a WR or even 2 with legit deep speed, explosion, and separation ability down the field was so important. We had to force teams out of man coverage and back their safeties off. We didn't do it. In fact, while Beane has said we haven't regressed, I am not so sure of that. We lost Hollins who had the most TDs in the passing game and we also lost Cooper who was the only one really winning at all down the field within the design of the play. Most of the downfield stuff we did complete was backyard football stuff were Allen put the cape on. I dare anyone to tell me how many balls over 30 yards were completed within the actual design and construction of the play. I can almost guarantee you that you will be able to count them on 1 hand.....and you may not use all of your fingers. Now, we did bring Palmer in and I actually think he will be pretty good for us. I think, at minimum, he will be a slight upgrade to Hollins and should separate more than any other WR we have on this roster not named Shakir. But is that enough to scare teams enough and force them to back off their safeties? I am not so sure. Allen is the best QB in the league in my opinion and he will mask a lot of shortcomings on this offense as he does every year. Unfortunately, I just have a feeling that 4-5 weeks into the season we are going to be in need of that big play WR yet again and we'll have to hope Beane can find a better trade than Cooper this time. One thing that could possibly help us out a lot is to use a ton more play action. Many of you know how much I was clamoring for that every week last season and it never happened. Allen is literally one of the best QBs in the league off play action and we call it like once or twice a game if we're lucky. But that's a different conversation for a different day. Ugh.....don't get me started on Brady's lack of play action calls.

And I would be fine trying either of those guys. But, they don't have the best history of success. Would remind me of the MVS signing without the important catches in big games. But if Beane wants to try them, fine with me. Maybe catching balls from a real NFL QB could help them break through, but I am looking for a little more of a proven commodity that the league respects. I don't think even with their speed the league respects either of these guys. But hey.....throw a dart.

Probably pretty close as it stands now, but man.....that WR room is brutal. Shenault can't be counted on to be a WR even though it is his natural position. So, I am not sure he makes the roster. And, if that's correct, that only leaves 4 on the roster and only 1 that I am absolutely confident in as being good in Shakir. The jury is still way out on Coleman. It seems Samuel always comes up hurt at some point in the season. And Palmer has never played a snap with this team. Shakir is our only definite good WR. Just sticks out like a sore thumb. We might not just need to add 1 WR. We might need to add 2 legit WRs to this team before we kickoff in September.

Quite honestly, the WR we need with the skillset that we need is not available in FA. The guy we need is on a roster somewhere that we need to trade for. If I have 1 major criticism of Beane is that he hasn't addressed the lack of speed in the WR room since Brown was here. Sure, when Diggs arrived, he helped with that, but he was never a true burner. We need a prime John Brown back in the offense. Doesn't necessarily have to be a league wide star, but a piece to the puzzle that opens up all areas of the field because teams have to fear his speed. But Beane will probably have go out, identify that guy, and swing a trade for him. The problem is our cap situation is so restrictive hight now and getting anyone of good enough value might be kind of tough. I don't know.....I guess I just wish we prioritized the WR position more than we have the last few years. And not just the position, but the type and skillset of the WR. Coleman is the highest we have picked a WR in forever and he is not even close to what I want in terms of skillset. But it is what it is. I just have a feeling that a few weeks into the season we are going to be in the same position as we were last year. We'll play a few good games on offense coming out of the gate but as soon as the scheme is on tape, we'll struggle to push the ball down the field again because teams don't have to respect any of our WRs long speed down the field. They'll move their safeties up and just clog everything up within 20-25 yards of the LOS and dare us to try and beat them over the top and we just wont have the horses to do it. Hope I'm wrong and a guy like Shavers of KJ Hamler come out of nowhere and find a way to make an impact on the offense down the field. Just not holding my breath.

Absolutely a bit of a troll in there..... He knows all he is going to hear about in the post draft presser is about him not addressing the offense in any meaningful way. Now he can say he took a WR that has upside that they had rated higher on their board. If he would have taken another defensive player, it would have been a long presser about the players he didn't take insead of the ones he did. He has to know he still has to address the WR position. He just has to know. We can't go into the season with the guys we have on this roster.

Just once I would love a couple teams to trade for "future considerations." Not trade for them necessarily, but cash them in. You used to hear it all the time......so and so traded to team x for player x and "future considerations." I just want to see at the end of the 7th round "Team X has traded the 241st pick in the draft to Team Y for the future considerations they were owed from 2013." Just think it would be some fun for a round that drags by every year. Ugh....almost there.