Kirby Jackson

Dawkins has a strong case imo

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-30-players-over-30-entering-2025-nfl-season-derrick-henry-t-j-watt

Looks like the comment about amateur scouts or whatever it said was deleted. That was what I was asking about. When I read it, I was like, “wait now we are questioning if PFF knows that they’re doing?” Lol, I studied journalism some in college. Watching what has happened over the last dozen or so years frustrates me. Everyone injects bias into their reporting. If someone doesn’t like the information, they attack the credibility of the source. There’s certainly a time for that but when I see people attack the credibility of an organization, with stellar credibility, I cringe. We may not always agree with PFF’s data but 32 teams accept it as real and important. That was my point. I think that’s a fair comment and kind of inline with my last post. We decide when we want to use data or believe a particular media outlet. We like them when they fit our agenda or narrative. That’s frustrating.

That’s fair. I’m not an expert in terms of how they define it either. I have a buddy that knows it inside and out. He swears by it. For years, I’ve pushed back and he pretty much tells me why I’m an idiot. Where he lands is, “it isn’t perfect but it’s far better than everything else out there. That’s why all 32 teams use it.” To your point though, it would be nice to know a little more about “it.” In terms of collected, I’ll assume it is from the All 22. I don’t know that to be true but know that’s how teams are breaking down film / game planning. I assume that PFF is using that same criteria. The analyzed part is not as clear to me but some people here know it better (ie @GunnerBill). I think, the gist, is they look at every play, what was supposed to happen and then deem the success. Results don’t really factor into the grade if I remember correctly. Don’t quote me on that though.

I’ll stay out of this one because I’ve said my piece on this many times. Are we now questioning the validity of PFF? While we might not always agree with them, we can’t act like they don’t have credibility because we don’t like the data. All 32 NFL teams use their data. We can argue that receivers not getting open didn’t play a role in Josh’s inaccuracy down the field. We can’t argue that the people producing the data aren’t credible.

I elaborated later. It’s more about, “he’s the worst player I’ve ever seen but the gap is that wide to the rest of the world.” You could have Kadarius Toney running routes and Derrius Guice in the backfield. It doesn’t matter who the USA puts out there. You could go to virtually any high school in this country and assemble a team capable of winning the gold.

Haven’t read the whole thread or any of it so sorry if this has been discussed. What did we expect him to say about Dallas? “I liked the last place better.” Of course he is going to say what he said and we shouldn’t care at all. As for Kaiir the person. He’s a fantastic human being. We know the family of Sophia. You’ve all probably seen the story whether you remember it or not but it’s all genuine. That guy would call her, show up there, I’m told that he still keeps in touch with the family. There was nothing fake or contrived about how he handled that situation and how that family feels about him. You see things like this when ESPN does “my wish” but this went on for what was left of her life (and still to this day). He’s a world class human being. We should all hope that our children grow up to be like him. https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/remembering-sophia-sophia-the-fierce-benintende

I didn’t see much of them either. He only flip side is that he did it with awful QBs too. The Jeudy 2024 season should be studied because it made no sense. 🤣🤣

It says on the write up for number 32 that a bunch of guys were considered for that spot. Who do you think were “honorable mention?” I’d say it’s definitely Jeudy and Pickens. Shocked that Jeudy didn’t make it after last year. I’d bet Odunze was certainly one of them. Diggs has to be there. Maybe Shakir?maybe Jakobi Meyers? Maybe Ridley? Maybe Mooney? Jennings? Addison? Pittman? Bateman? Reed or a different Packers WR? I’m not factoring in rookies.

Has Beane neglected WR? Of course he has. That’s not really debatable. We can look at asset allocation and come to that conclusion pretty easily. Has it hurt their offense is a different conversation. It’s also a different conversation from the best 32 WRs in football. That’s this thread. I shared the top 25 under 25 a day or two earlier. Did that get your panties in a bunch too? There was no intent on that being about the Bills either. Yes, they did have a player on that list. These are the things discussed in May. Don’t project as if you know my intent. My intent was to spark conversation on PFF’s list. That’s what has been going on. Guess what, there will be more of these threads coming as they release them. Read through the thread if you want to participate. Who do you think is too high? Too low? If you don’t want to engage on the topic. Don’t. Don’t come here and try to derail it though. Thanks in advance

PFF is releasing lists of the best players by position in the NFL. Why would this not be on here? Before you say, “this is a Bills message board,” it it nestled between threads on Jim Irsay, Marvin Harrison Jr. Fred Warner and Brock Purdy. It is for discussion!! It’s May!! These are the things that are discussed on here this time of year. I get it. You’re one of those guys that’s sticks your fingers in your ears and goes “La la la la la, I can’t hear you” if you don’t like what’s being said. You’re the one making this about the Bills offense. If you don’t like the conversation, don’t join in!! You’re projecting. Yes, the Bills are bad at WR. No one expected them to have guys on the list. That’s not the conversation. It is about the best receivers in football. My suggestion is that you start a thread on Strong vs. Ingram or Hancock vs. Cam Lewis for roster spots. Those topics interest you. Instead of whining, expend your energy on things you care about.

There are 9 teams with Super Bowl odds of +1900 or less. In parenthesis, the number of wide receivers inside of PFF’s top 32: Eagles (2) Ravens (1) Bills (0) Chiefs (1) Lions (2) Rams (2) Commanders (2) Packers (0) Bengals (2) I don’t know if this tells much. It is a little wild though that more than 1/2 of the top 9 teams have multiple WRs in the top 32 and at least 1 in the top 10. The Eagles with 1 & 7, Lions with 4 & 32, Rams with 5 & 16, Commanders with 10 & 30, and the Bengals with 3 & 14. It is also wild that Ohio State has 5 guys in the top 32 (6 if you count Jameson Williams) and LSU has 4 of the top 15.

For me, it is Chase probably 1, Jefferson a close 2, small gap to Brown at 3. I’d probably have Puka at 4 but there’s a little of that recency bias from what I saw him do to the Bills.

Ayiuk in the top 20 coming off that injury isn’t something that I expected to see.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-wide-receiver-rankings-top-32-2025-season

Lol, to be clear I wasn’t talking about how his skillset would translate well to the flag football world. It was simply, “he’s the worst football player that I’ve ever seen and the gap from the US to the rest of the world is so wide that it doesn’t matter if he’s the QB. They will still win.”

Peterman could qb the US to a gold

No one liked us less than Chidi Ahanotu did in his 1 year. That dude was commuting from Toronto.

It’s wild that every single person on this message board has more rushing yards in a Bills uniform than Reggie Bush.

I love the topic @BillsShredder83 There are a long list of guys that were here for a minute. The TO thing was fun. One guy that I haven’t seen mentioned is Karlos Williams. He was looked like a future star but smoked / ate himself out of the league after a year. He deserves mention.

I’ve seen Bowers before. You can’t convince me that guy is under 35, forget about 25!!

Think that this makes for an interesting offseason discussion: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-25-players-under-25-2025-nfl-season

Appreciate the advice on how to navigate this place!! I’m learning. I assumed it was self explanatory. As soon as @BillsFan130 asked, I elaborated. Maybe it wasn’t clear. It’s in the first response located on page 2. The question was asked 14 minutes after the initial post. That was responded to 22 minutes later.

Lol, I think I have him at like 28ish.

The yards per reception point is a good one. He was really good after the catch. I should retract my, “he didn’t show anything beyond what was expected” because he did maximize yards at an elite level. He’s big and physical. There were times when he had the ball and looked like a poor man’s Ja’Marr Chase. Those moments make you salivate. I saw this the other day too and it was really encouraging: While he wasn’t efficient in terms of a “per target” basis, he was dynamic when he did get the ball. That does give me optimism and hope. I don’t think that he will ever be a high volume usage guy because of his lack of separation but there are multiple signs of him being a big play guy. The Bills have had a need for chunk plays. Coleman looks like he can provide them. If he can be a big play guy, and fill some of the physicality void that left with Mack, Coleman can be a rich man’s Gabe Davis. He can replicate what Gabe did well (block and get down the field) while also adding YAC that those Bills teams lacked.