Kirby Jackson

I’m tired man. Having a different opinion is great. Healthy debate is what makes this place fun. If you’re going to say something defend it and be specific. There are way too many posters now just talking out of their 🍑. Lastly, don’t make claims that can easily be fact checked. Certainly don’t double down on it. We all just need to be better around here.

This you? I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency. The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR. Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?

I agree that they absolutely are primarily slot guys. I was simply saying that he offers a skill set that they do not currently have. I also think that you’re right, that it’ll be a few different guys down the field. If Coleman can be a more reliable Gabe, he will be a good pickup. Gabe’s issue was that he was so limited in the routes that he ran well. To this point, Coleman has similar struggles. He’s young though and has lots of upside.

Exactly!! I still think that the Bills win 11+ games and probably the division. I just don’t see them closer to a championship. Josh will need to be Superman but I fully expect him to be.

They’ll have to run some. The question is who? The Shakir point was a response to, “he handled volume last year.” He didn’t handle volume at all. He was very efficient but on a low target number. I like Shakir a lot and believe that he’s the best WR on the team. Saying that he had volume last year just isn’t true. Gabe wasn’t very good and I didn’t want him back. He did do a couple of things well (primarily get down the field when Josh broke free). We can make up for his production but can we offset his big play ability? That remains to be seen.

In terms of Gabe, the question was, “who now runs the 9 route?” Shakir had 45 targets!! What are you talking about that he handled volume??? Kincaid had 91 targets. If you take just the Brady games it was 40. If you extrapolate that across the season it’s 97 targets. The WR room last year wasn’t good enough. It was way better than this group. Now if Coleman is good and Shakir continues to develop they can be an average WR room. At the moment, they’re inarguably in the bottom 3. What are you talking about? Why wouldn’t he have been a 6th? He’s little and has short arms, but he’s quick, twitchy and productive. He would have more value on the Bills than on many other teams because we lack that skill set. Neither Shakir nor Samuel are twitchy route runners. They’re converted RBs that are good with the ball in their hands. You have to throw go routes on occasion. If you don’t throw the ball down the field you’re going to see 11 man boxes. It’ll be tough to run, tough to throw those quick screens that Brady likes and difficult for Josh to find space to take off. And before you say, “yeah but Samuel runs a 4.31” he has a career YPC of 10.7 yards.

Based on what? This isn’t just directed at you but I’m trying to understand how TO isn’t on every list. He’s 3rd all-time in yards (ahead of Randy Moss) and TDs. Anyone that doesn’t have TO I’d love to hear the reasoning (other than he was with the Bills for 1 year and wasn’t great here).

Yep, TO is a top 5 WR all-time. He is 3rd all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in receiving TDs. WR is obviously the Bills biggest need. If it is “any guy in their prime” he’s obvious.

If it is the player in their prime (even if it wasn’t with the Bills) it is TO and Mario Williams. If it is their prime had to be with the Bills Moulds and Mario.

Yep. They’ve improved in a couple of areas (mainly size and run after the catch) but took a big step back elsewhere. Diggs was a surgeon as a route runner. They don’t have anyone with route running as a strength. Gabe was flawed but could run the 9. I’m not sure who is supposed to fill that role? One of my biggest gripes with this group is that I don’t believe that they can handle volume. To handle volume, you need to be a separator. Guys like Beasley and Diggs got the ball a lot because they were open. I think Kincaid will take some of that but not nearly enough. Coleman doesn’t appear to be a volume guy. He feels more like a guy that will catch some fades and crossers. Samuel will see a bunch of touches but I think it’ll be a combination of runs, screens and a few other routes I think that Washington / Ladd McConkey skill set is an important one. You need someone that can run those possession routes. Kincaid is going to have a ton of pressure on him because he is going to have to be that guy.

Specific to Malik Washington, he has a skill set that the Bills roster currently does not have. He’s incredibly twitchy and gets out of his breaks quickly. That was Diggs. He could find space and because of that could handle volume. It’s a little bit of Beasley. Washington is little but on this roster he had a chance to play and to climb the depth chart. He would be the best pure route runner on the team imo. He would have played over Hollins. I don’t treat PFF as the Bible but at the same time it’s as good as most. The point being that their list of the top 101 players isn’t a travesty. You could probably nitpick a handful of guys here or there. It’s not like the Bills had 4 or 5 guys that were screwed by not being on there. They had 1 guy make the list.

Not offended!! We actually agree that Deion Jones used to be really good. He’s now a PS guy on the worst team in the league. If he makes the team, fine, but he isn’t the same guy that went to the Pro Bowl in 2017. The 🗑️ part is about anybody wanting more warm bodies at WR. They have fine depth. That depth is just expected to start. I don’t need to add Chase Claypool to a camp battle with Shorter, Isabella and Hamler. We don’t need more trash in that room (especially a cancer like Claypool). The Bills need to address the top of the depth chart there, not the bottom. They are not okay at the position and throwing more scrub vets at it isn’t solving anything.

Panthers? 😂😂 Dionte Johnson, Thielen, Legette and Mingo is worse than what we have? 😂😂 Um, no, that’s not even up for discussion. Giants have Nabers & the Cards have MHJ. They have alphas that you need to account for. They are better because of that. Broncos - they are similar but slightly better. We can call Franklin and Coleman a wash. Sutton, Reynolds and Mims > Shakir, Samuel and Hollins. If Shakir keeps developing the Bills could be better than Denver. The Pats are similar but I have them ahead. Bourne is better than anyone that the Bills have as of today. Juju has had success. Baker and Polk are two bites at the apple with the same chance at success as Coleman. I think that most objective people would have the Pats over the Bills but it’s reasonable either way. The Chargers are in the same boat. They just added Chark (who some here wanted). I like McConkey over Coleman but the rest of the Bills over the Chargers. This could reasonably go either way.

Love that expression 😂😂 I don’t disagree that there are some guys that could be on there (specifically Taron). At the end of the day though, the people that grade it the closest, thought that the Bills only had 1 of the top 101 players in the NFL. That’s wild for a 2 seed (and a credit to Josh).

The issue is that, on this team, Malik Washington (for example) would play 40% of the offensive snaps (and more with an injury). Ulofoshio is, at best, the 4th or 5th off the ball LB. He will play special teams if he dresses. So they took a guy, that will play less, at a less important position. That’s stupid.

PFF did their top 101 players of 2023 a couple of months ago. The Bills had 1 guy on the list. They were the 2 seed in the AFC. They lack top end talent and have suffered from it. Josh covers so many problems with this team. We have had rosters full of overpaid grinders. Hopefully his reset changes the way that the Bills allocate resources. Fill the depth with cheap labor and pay for the top of the roster. My jersey is already hanging in the rafters homie. You’re the one trying to make a name for yourself. That trash take isn’t going to get you there. If it “isn’t correct” list the 3 that are worse and be prepared to defend it…

Anytime that you can take the ball out of Josh Allen’s hands you gotta do it

Just got a text from my buddy who is the Bears scout. I’m trying to post it but it’s too large. At any rate, it is Schefter’s post about the signing and then: him: 🥴 me: gross him: he’s been a locker room cancer everywhere that he’s been take it fwiw

I’ll be okay calling pass rusher as the 2nd most important position. Offensive tackle is nowhere near as important as WR. Again, look at the contracts being signed right now. We try to convince ourselves that areas that we are good at are more important than areas that we aren’t good at. Importance of position: QB - Bills are elite WR - Bills are bottom 3 DL (all inclusive) - Bills are average with talent but may get results with volume CB - Bills average to good OT - Bills good C - Bills average (although Van Pran could be a steal) S - Bills average RB - Bills are above average LB - Bills are elite if Milano is healthy OG - Bills average to above average ST - Bills are average Who said that? Don’t make stuff up to strengthen your 🗑️ perspective.

Sweet comeback bro!! If you like signing LBs that were pro bowlers in 2017 and, PS players in 2023, cool. I prefer to address the 2nd most important position in football, for a team that has the worst WR room in the NFL. To each their own 🍻

Yes, WRs are INFINTIELY more important than off the ball LBs. We do agree that a guy competing for the 6th LB isn’t a big deal. I think that a WR competing for the 6th WR spot isn’t a big deal either. I do understand why some people might be frustrated though. If the thinking is, “it feels like we have spent a lot more time reworking the bottom of the LB depth chart, than the top of the WR depth chart” that’s fair. I understand that their were limited resources but I have hard time justifying a ST, off the ball LB, that will be 5th or 6th on your depth chart over Malik Washington & Ryan Fluornoy who might have played significant snaps at WR with upside. You were (and still are) desperate at WR but have prioritized off the ball LB depth.

Chark signed with the Chargers. You can’t get DJ Moore because the Bears will never move him. If he were on the market, the Bills should ABSOLUTELY push in their chips. That IS the kind of guy that you clear your cap position to chase. DJ Moore is coming off a year of 96 receptions, 1,364 yards and 8 TDs with Justin Fields as his QB. What’s the point of having cap space if you wouldn’t use it on that guy?!? 😂😂 It doesn’t matter though as he isn’t available. It was just a weird comment to say, “pass on DJ Moore at $16M because we need to clear our cap situation but go ahead and give DJ Chark $6M.”

It’s an infinitely more important position. Look at the contracts of off the ball LBs compared to WR. Additionally, the top of the LB room >>>>> the top of the WR room

The Bills are zigging while everyone else zags. Most teams would love to sign a guy that started his career on the practice squad and developed into a Pro Bowler in year 7. Not the Bills, they sign a guy that was a Pro Bowler 7 years ago that developed into a PS player on the worst team in the league last year. 4D chess