Mango

Sorry I don't have time to screen shot every single play I have seen these things. But ok. I watched the same exact all 22 Jeremy did the last 2 weeks and came away with something different. Orton was significantly more accurate with the ball at times. Agreed. Didn't day EJ would be better, or should start. Glad you added something to the thread though.

I just re watched the all 22 from that game. There weren't too many "downfield" reads missed. There also aren't many realistic downfield routes called and there was even less opportunity when you factor in OL play. Again EJs weakness last week was the wonky throws. I posted it in another thread. Most of the terrible passes were to Woods. Not sure who is at fault probably both especially when you look at personnel decisions this week. EJ benched and Hogan saw what seemed to be more playing time.

I disagree with the quicker reads than last week. While this might (and hopefully) turns out to be true down the line. The reads last week where fine, it was the delivery and drops that killed the team. Also willingness to stand in the pocket? EJ was hit 16 times and sacked 2 twice. Not hijacking the thread into an EJ/Orton argument. Just saying sometimes people say these things that are blatantly false. I really don't get it at all, I think people just like to believe they are right rather than be actually informed. The reads where quick and correct last week, the delivery was the issue. Orton did a better job there, and that was about it. He left some plays out there, didn't make too many mistakes, and operated the offense more opportunistically than EJ did. The offense was better but only a little bit in my opinion, which should carry about as much weight as Jeremy White's

If the bills finish the season strong and by some gift from god make the playoffs this year, here is what I expect. QB Position: Orton is not the long term answer, and we still need a very serious upgrade at the position. Depending on what Bradford is looking for, the Bills make a run at him. 12mil ish seems reasonable, I bet he wants more. Could be had in a one year cheap-o deal so he can collect a huge payday afterwards. He is a good option for a team built to not miss a beat with a talented roster. This actually seems reasonable since we won't find a 2nd rounder that can come in and lead the team immediately. That means Spiller and Hughes walk. One of the 2 QB's dressing weekly either gets cut, traded, or retires. Draft: 2nd round- best guard available. 3rd round DE or a project QB. Look for another OL at 6 or 7.

Thought I would go back and rewatch the All-22 of our last loss and win, and do a little comparison. Houston: EJ got clobbered. From watching all the pass plays, he seemed to make the right reads on almost all the plays, 2 or 3 were poor/there was a better option. A couple of head scratchers for sure, I got about 4 or 5, oddly almost all involved Robert Woods. They weren't in the same book let alone the same page. Not sure who is at fault here. Sammy had a bad game. Sorry guys, but he did. Mike Williams with two big drops as well. To have that, with the pressure, and EJ's gross inaccuracy at times is a recipe for disaster. The receivers let the QB down as much as the QB let them down. Not sure who but I read a few posts where people where mentioning WR's running around open. Didn't see that at all. Houston forced our QB, WR's, and OL to win their battles, and they all seemed to fail to a certain extent. The OL was disgraceful. JJ Watt had his way with Buffalo. All in all a bad showing for the entire offense, not just the QB (yes a bad QB showing too!). Not a pass for EJ, just an observation. Detroit: Orton missed some better reads, especially in the 2nd and 3rd quarter where there were plays to me made. He delivered the ball with more consistency though, and had more help from his WR's than the week prior. Read into that what you will, but it happened. Hogan saw a lot more time Sunday. Could be after his performance in the Houston game, mentioned above. After watching the all-22 here, I really wasn't all that impressed. He made some plays but we still need more from our QB position. Detroit played with 2 safeties over top almost the entire game, and did a good job of taking anything away that wasn't underneath. I think this ended up costing them. Had they loaded up the front a bit more, Orton would have had to force some pretty low percentage throws. Not saying he can't complete them, just that they're low percentage. One thing I noticed from both games, is our general lack of open receivers. Sammy does a much better job than anybody else and it's obvious. especially coming out of his breaks. Our intermediate passing game doesn't exist because we barely run any routes there. 3 deep receivers and a check down. Regardless of either QB we are seeing go routes, and check downs. We aren't helping Orton or EJ here. If I am any D I still load the box with our OL, and make the WR beat the CB, and have the QB try and set to throw those pretty low percentage plays. The odds are they don't regularly enough for you to lose the game. Pretty low percentage stuff. I think this is basically what Houston did. We don't really have a QB or OL worth respecting. I am not sure where the blame falls here. Are we over-hyping our talent and depth at the position? Is it the OL for not giving the QB enough time for the receivers to get through their routes? Is it play calling? If we want to take pressure off the OL, why not more slants, we barely see any. Why barely any intermediate stuff? I am no Hackett supporter, and to me it looks like he gets the blame for not doing a good enough job at hiding our weaknesses and using our strengths. There are some serious issues at personnel all over the place, and the roster doesn't get a pass, but I think we aren't doing enough to mask it or use it most efficiently.

Pats never lose 3 in a row so I was ok with a win last night. BUT I didn't want them to look like that. Hopefully they are not back to form If I recall the Bengals have very little scouting and Lewis undertakes a lot of that. I think the consensus is there that he does a great job given the resources the franchise gives him.

because he will be in buffalo?

I think the point is when you get out played you commit more penalties to try and get by.

i wish this was a few weeks ago, that way we could have stood a chance against watt oh good, i was hoping for another thread to be hijacked as anti EJ

Evidence, see Russ Brandon as GM era

Drunk

So just looking at the OP's post. How can the line only fail/have forced errors of 13 when the QB hit total is 16? If we are working in percentages, that means you're off by (math in head) 24-25ish % when it comes to forced errors.

Drunk

The game plan will be the same as last week. Keep the QB alive.

He was mediocre to terrible as a HC. The previous are OC jobs. Bridgewater looked pretty ready to play this past weekend. There is a big difference between not running every first down and throwing the ball 44 times with a rook No this OL on its best day is average. Best day.

I am not necessarily clamoring for the kid to stay in, it hasn't been pretty. But I think we are totally underestimating the beating this kid took all game. The OL should be ashamed. The guy was beaten up out there. Hit every 2 and change drop backs. There is a different between the OL not protecting well and what happened in Houston. When you are getting hit nearly every other drop back, the whole clean pocket thing barely exists as a thing. If Brady can't perform with the pressure from KC, hows a kid who played 14 games supposed to handle it. The idea he doesn't stand in the pocket and deliver the ball doesn't make sense to me. He got hit 16 times and sacked only twice with that kind of pressure. Isn't that nearly by definition standing in the pocket and delivering the ball. The kid took an AP like beating out there. I generally like the all 22, this one not so much. We are going to say the big plays missed are Watkins on a crossing route where he was bumped off his route. Not taking a shot at Sammy deep with a Safety over the top (he doesn't come under Sammy until after EJ goes underneath, going to Woods when he is given a huge cushion underneath (granted he got worked), Then not looking for Sammy on a slant, who Joe B says broke off his called route, when the play was a screen to Fred, who said that the Texans gave the look they where looking for, for the play they wanted to run. My guess is the other really errant throws that are mentioned in the first two pages, while terrible passes, involve the QB getting lit up like a Christmas tree. Boy really proved a point, if those are the most glaring mistakes that JW can find with a clean pocket, so be it.

Videos of Munch, Billick, and an NFL insider all basically saying this isn't a move with long term thought in place and was for win now. But what do the Bills do next year now? Going back to EJ is tough. Most didn't necassarily say it was a bad move, but were very surprised and kind of questioned it. Billick said Marrone made the move to basically keep his job next year. Ladanian Tomlinson said EJ sucks. Most reports from the NFL guys, Kirwan, Billick, and Munch, all seem to be questioning the move.

CJ being retained will be dependent on coaching staff. If Hackett is retained, might as well let him walk. If we keep Marrone and get another OC, who knows. Same with a HC replacement. Brown looks like his replacement, but not just that, it saves us a draft pick

CK is the worst part of the Watkins trade. We'd all feel better/ok with it if we either just gave up last years second or found a more immediate impact there.

This is the proper way for a GM to manage. Make it clear you (Whaley) has the power to make any and all personnel decisions, but for the most part you let the HC make the decisions. While you clearly state the goals, objectives, and expectations of the HC. You also make it clear that when you make a roster decision that you don't agree with, be prepared to come under fire or lose your job.

I'm what some around here would call an EJ apologist, and think he gets too much of the blame, but deserves blame none the less. However he has his deficiencies and think he is indeed a project that needs patience. I am not thrilled with the benching. 14 games isn't enough. Pat Kirwan eluded to something similar. That doesn't put them blame squarely on either. They make eachother look worse. However one (Hackett) is more or less in a relatively high level management position so I am less willing to look past his deficiencies. I still don't understand your line of thinking. I think it is far to simplistic for a very intricate and complicated game. Just because one sucks doesn't mean the other is good.

Not sure I totally get what you're saying. I wish Marrone would bail on Hackett. Not sure I see how you get to that point. My line for Pegula himself actually wanting to fire Marrone is 9 wins. 8 gets muddy. I would be willing to bet Pegula keeps Marone if we are 9-7. Not saying I agree with that, but I think that's most likely. If he gets 9 games he will be on the chopping block the next year and on a short leash. Any and all regression from that point would be held against him, and rightfully so. I think Hackett is dunzo this season regardless. To retain Hackett we probably need 10 wins, a playoff appearance and/or playoff win. He will be rightfully scapegoated this year to give Marrone one more shot. That is if Marrone puts employment over loyalty. If he doesn't, they both get the boot. I don't totally agree with all of this, but just what I think will be the most likely scenario.

I'm one of those whipped puppies. I agree with and support this post

My big worry now is that I saw KC as a winnable game. Now I don't want to think about it. Obviously you take the divisional win over the conference but I have the fear that Brady will return to form in week 6 and we get routed. Just history I guess.

Could it be Jimmy Garoppolo? But seriously.... Now I want to cry again.