Thurman#1

They contribute as pass catchers. And the fact that they don't contribute more mostly comes down to Josh wanting to go longer. If we had an RB anywhere near the level of McCaffrey we still wouldn't use him enough to make it worthwhile paying him what McCaffrey gets. We'd probably trade him in his third year and bring in another 3rd rounder. A healthy McCaffrey really is a weapon, though. He'd take gadget plays too.

Um, nope. He might not tour but he's still alive. Saw him in a club in DC at the Wax Museum about 30 years ago, and he walked real slow to the piano but once he was there he was a freaking hurricane. In my all-time top ten concerts.

At who? At those not convicted of double homicide?

As I read a bit of this thread, it doesn't seem like an environment I'll want to spend a lot of time in. But quickly, I spent about ten years in Williamsville. I now live in Japan. Which is now, sadly, a more functional democracy than America has been the past few years, though I do believe America will, with difficulty and struggle, self-correct. What I learned? To depend on myself but love. And that people rejecting honesty as a major part of their belief system and their standards of behavior should be avoided and not respected. Everyone lies a bit, but those who do it as a consistent major part of their behavior pattern don't earn my respect, nor should they earn anyone's. That people worthy of respect must constantly fight with their tendencies to perceive what they want to believe. Confirmation bias must be fought, always, and evidence, such as that science provides, should be neutrally evaluated and only when trustworthy and logical, believed. Jesus, I'm getting tedious here, and so quickly.

Yes, we'll definitely hash out our total agreement on the fact that there have always been political problems such as debt, problems, deflation and inflation, and that the problem is the insurrection and the state of public discourse. Those two posts were in agreement. So I'll definitely hash out my agreement with myself.

There's always been inflation, deflation. There's never been insurrection in America. So you're being sarcastic, but though you don't realize it, you were actually right. There was an insurrection, and yeah it was deadly. We don't need more investigations, but we need the one that's happening now to go seriously deep and find what happened.

It's not politicians. There's always been debt, there's always been problems. The difference is that there has not always been such horrible public discourse, that's due to the internet and Facebook and social media. And there hasn't been insurrection in America. 'Nuff said, really.

The reason the analytics are so good is that many of those sneaks come in really good circumstances, and again, this was a terrible circumstance for it. Here's Tom Brady on the Manning Bros. Monday night show, at 3:00 on the video: Eli: Quarterback sneak. You're one of the best at it. Did you all call those plays or are you checking to that at the line of scrimmage when you see one of the gaps open? Brady: Sometimes there was a little of both. I obviously had the option to always do it. But at the same time, there was called ones. I believe that if they're all inside, go outside. If they're all outside, go inside. If they're all deep throw it short, if they're short, throw it deep. Yeah, exactly. That's why sneaks succeed at a high rate. Many or most are run through a gap. That's not what we did. Brady goes on to point out the gap that Jameis runs a successful sneak through in the Saints - Seahawks game.

Hah!!! Fair point!

Brad Butler was really getting good, and then he retired as a young guy to go into politics. Which didn't work out for him. Urbik was decent for a while, a tough guy but not really athletic. Ross Tucker was solid too. Ostroski was OK. But I'm starting to run dry after that. Two or three have been mentioned before. Levitre was good and big Ruben Brown is still underrated, an absolute road grader. The Super Bowl guys of course, Davis and Ritcher. But since those two not a ton.

Again, you simply don't know this. It's a guess. Sometimes people test negative at one time and then can test positive very shortly thereafter. You don't know what happened. As Hap suggested, pipe down. Pretty dense indeed. These posts are providing a living example. Assuming facts not in evidence is indeed a pure logical mistake. You do know that Hap is a mod, right?

Yup. And I'd probably add a few extra to your list. 9) Scheme fit for what that team requires 10) Susceptibility to career traps and killers like drug addiction, alcohol addiction, yes man addiction, posse addiction ... look at Aaron Hernandez, though CTE may have been a factor there. 11) Consistency of hunger after getting the big money (look at OL Mike Williams in Buffalo, he was physically far better than he needed to be, but never cared enough after getting the big contract) 12) Personal fit in the locker room and with the coaches (look at Jonathan Martin, a massive mis-fit with Incognito and that locker room) I'm moving towards smaller and smaller factors here, but basically you're right, a lot of moving parts. Plenty of times nobody knows, including the players, until it becomes obvious down the road. Great post. DeBerg is an excellent example, and I think you're dead on about hindsight.

Sometimes. But without question they can't always tell. Plenty of players simply aren't good enough yet (or they're borderline) when they arrive, and when that happens, the players don't know any better than the coaches and fans how well they'll develop. If the players had known for sure that Wyatt Teller was as good as he was going to become, they'd have told the coaches. These guys arrive in the NFL at around 22 years old, give or take. There's a ton of development still left, physical, mental and emotional. Sure, you can tell the Bruce Smiths and probably the Tajh Boyds on the other end (NYJets 6th rounder who didn't make it out of training camp and never took an NFL snap). Players have a lot more insight than we do into what a guy is ... but as little insight as we do into what that guy will become.

Jets, Nov. 24th, 1996, two half-sacks.

I'd argue there's a bit less reason for confidence against the Browns than you're admitting. Yeah, we beat the Ravens last year. But though Lamar appears now to have figured out the passing game, he hadn't back then. This year's Baker (and this year's Lamar) are quite a bit more dangerous than last year's Lamar in the passing game.

That's not news. It certainly is one opinion, though. Hope it turns out right.

We've got a running game. Singletary's running up 5.2 YPG and Moss 3.9, which includes a lot of third-and-one type carries. That's not even including Allen. Give me home field, thanks.

Way way way too early to say this. IMO if he stays healthy and either the Jets re-jigger their front office to make it decent or he ends up on another team, he could be very very good.

Sweeney's hands: "Hands - Showcases soft, natural and reliable hands. Greets the football with proper technique and hauls it in cleanly. Capable of extending in any direction and plucking it. Does well to hang on through traffic. Catching the football looks easy for him. " https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tommy-sweeney "Strengths: "Reliable hands" https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tommy-sweeney/32005357-4539-3041-578e-743d87b9a544 "—Sure-handed player with limited drops after some struggles early in his career." https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824112-tommy-sweeney-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-buffalo-bills-pick Hands have not been considered any kind of problem for him, as these pre-draft evals show. Athleticism is a different story, and he wasn't considered an especially good blocker, though he's willing and has since improved.

Even before Knox was Knox they were more efficient and effective last year in 11 formations. IMO we'll see more of Sweeney and Gilliam. We'll see.

Look around the league. When you find bone-headed fans continuously finding a scapegoat, you'll see just as many "he's actually good" threads. The reason being he's actually good and yet many don't want to see it, weirdly. Lotulelei, another good player weirdly singled out consistently as a whipping boy by folks who don't quite it, rivals him. He has made strides. But the rest of your post is just plain wrong. Turner absolutely did say earlier on that Edmunds could get even better. And not just once. What you haven't liked is that Turner has said again and again even before this that Tremaine was playing very well even before the improvement. So, yeah, he has indeed made strides. From very good to even better. Which is great to see. Still not elite, and probably still hasn't maxed out his potential - not surprising for a 23 year-old getting towards the middle of his fourth year - but it's still great to see that he's gotten even better. But he has always fitted the scheme and done well at what they ask him to do. It's why he's been the captain so long and why they picked up his $13M option last year even before he picked up his play even further this year.

The American media is the worst source on the planet. Barring all the others, that is. Oh, except Facebook sources. They're gold. Believe everything they say.

Norwell's way too expensive. I'd love to get him if he wasn't. The problem is very little money, this year and next year as well. We're decent everywhere. For an upgrade we'd need someone actually good, and they're generally either highly compensated or greatly valued for being a bargain. I don't see any major moves. Guard and CB if we do, but I just don't see it. We've got a good line, but a couple of guys in the interior are only decent. It'd be lovely to upgrade that. But there's tremendous demand and not a lot of supply for good OLs. I saw Cover1 point out the other day that Bobby Hart was just signed off our practice squad by Tennessee. That tells you the relationship between OL supply and OL demand right now.

Yardage totals don't prove that our outlets aren't a threat. All it proves is that we're not throwing to the RBs. Doesn't show why. Maybe Josh just wants to throw to TEs or WRs instead, as a preference. Singletary has only been targeted 18 times. He's been open one whole hell of a lot more than that. Same with Moss who's been targeted 14 times. Again, open much much more often than that. If we get an RB who's a terrific pass catcher, what will likely happen is that we'll have an RB who is a terrific pass catcher not being targeted much.

Great points. I'm not sure I agree with your second paragraph. I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as looking at just ability/size. There's far more to it. But you're dead on that development is a huge issue in this, and that their development process seems to be working really well right now under McDermott, and with the commitment to bring in great locker room guys in FA and trades.