Alphadawg7

Does Coleman need to improve? Yup, no question. But: On a more optimistic note instead of just recycling the same WR and Coleman rants all the time… When he got hurt week 11 he was on pace for 800-900 yards and 7+ TDs. And to add more context to that, that is with: 1 - Being a rookie 2 - Splitting reps and time 3 - Playing on an offense that saw its QB spread the ball around hitting 9-10 different targets that also ran the ball a lot. 4 - Played on an offense where due to blow out wins took the pedal off the gas for whole quarters and some halves and stopped forcing the air attack 5 - Missed the first quarter of a blow out win where the offense ran clock second half meaning he played like one or two series and caught his lone target for a long TD 6 - Was used as a blocker a lot because he was punishing people as a blocker, a major reason we didn’t try and bring Mack back. Yes he has work to do…no doubt. But some of you I think are MORE invested in him failing or validating your doubts than actually looking for positives to whether he can be a good player for us. And if you want to know the real issue…I think he is playing out of position and should play the Z and let Palmer play the X. And if we do that, and I think we might, don’t be surprised to see Keon prove some people wrong. It’s like if people don’t think he can be a top 5 WR1 he is automatically trash and a whipping boy. He can be a good player for us, even if it ultimately means it’s as a WR2 at some point. And this is coming from me who told everyone (and a lot of people argued) that Ladd McConkey was going to be one the best WRs in this draft and I had him as WR5 behind Nabers, Harrison, Odunze, and BTJ. I even said I don’t know we will take him for what they are looking for but I was terrified KC or Ravens would land him. I loved Ladd coming out…but let’s not condemn Keon for not being Ladd and just constantly pile on him before he’s stepped on the field for his second year yet. He’s a Bill…he loves it here…and Josh has publicly said Keon has been hitting him up all offseason on getting better. So he seems to be putting in the work. But man…the WR rants have been beaten to death around here. Like what more needs to even be said at this point?

I dont disagree that some guys can just fall off a cliff, but in a lot of those cases I have gone back and noticed their back end of the previous season was tailing off form their first half of the previous season. Its not an exact science by any measure, and its not always going to be the case, but more to the point Henry showed zilch in terms of slowing down. Even if he was in his prime still, I think it would be foolish to expect another 1900 yard season, those just don't happen very often. But if there is any back capable of 1200-1500 yard seasons still in that Ravens offense at ages 32 and 33 its this guy. He is on another level physically and few have the kind of off season regimen that he does, or even capable of what he does. That being said...I also wouldn't at all be surprised to see a 32 year old RB slow down, its a pretty common wall. Just saying, if there is a RB to bet on to still get a couple highly productive seasons at this age its him. The problem with that comparison though is that Rasul and Henry are not in the same league as a player, physically, or how their offseason regimen to take care of their bodies. Most RB's will fall off a cliff at this age, you don't have to convince me of that or find examples, there are many. The point was if anyone can buck that trend its Henry.

Im not as down on Bernard as some seem to be, but if there is a question/case to be made about his contract, it is would the money have benefited the Bills more being spent on Cook. And regardless of anyones opinion on Bernard or what to pay Cook, that is a legit discussion.

Usually there are signs the previous season though where you see guys maybe still have a good season total, but they were doing much more the first half than the 2nd half of the seaosn. Look at Cooper for example who still remains unsigned. But Derrick Henry rushed for 138 or more yards in 4 of his last 6 games of the season, including the final 3. Father time is undefeated, but he does lose some rounds from time to time...and if anyone can take few more rounds from Father Time its that beast Henry. And in that offense I think its plausible he will still be a problem for everyone else for another couple seasons personally.

Testament to our divisional foes being a hot mess most seasons

Wow people actually thought that was staged lol

I think some people forget this is still football and you still try and make plays and hits...and sometimes people get hurt. But that doesn't mean it was cheap or intentional either.

Oh don't get me wrong...I would LOVVVVVE Bowers, I loved him coming out. I just meant, our offense under Brady isn't focused on featuring players in the same way and I think that would be the same even if Bowers was here. He would definitely get more targets and do better than Kincaid would, he is the better player. Just meant I don't think he gets as many targets though as he got in Vegas as "the guy" there.

What are you talking about? Maybe you should sroll back…You literally specifically brought Bowers up to me when I reminded you Kincaid had a pretty good rookie season. You can’t even keep your rants straight now apparently. Plus, you are back to just completely over looking he was hurt, missed games, and played hurt most the 2024 season again. You need to go outside and get some sun or something dude. You’ve just been rage posting for months and now just want to piss and moan about Kincaid the way you’ve been beating that WR dead horse all offseason.

Keon was on pace for 800-900 yards as a rookie and 7+ TDs through week 11 when he got hurt. And further context: -He was a rookie -He was splitting time during that span -He played in a spread the ball around offense -Bills took the foot off the gas for whole quarters and some halves in blowout wins in those first 11 games. So while he didn’t find his groove again after the injury, he showed a lot of promise before and that is why they are still confident in him going into this year. And McD and Beane have proven multiple times to not just stick with a guy because of his draft status. Look at Elam, he was inactive or didn’t see the field most games here. Keon showed enough in those 11 games to still have their belief in him. He still has to come out and prove their confidence correct and show he will take that step forward, but his starting this year is not just because of his draft status.

LMAO - so your baseline expectation is the greatest rookie season TE maybe ever? Got it. Bowers is a generational talent, and for his stats it sure helps that he also plays on a team without a lot of other weapons so he gets featured. And in Daltons second year he missed games and played hurt. You're just being ridiculous at this point. Dalton has plenty to prove still, but you’re again being way over the top dramatic to just be dramatic. FYI: Prepare to remain disappointed. Not only will Kincaid not put those numbers up here for a season, no TE will in this system because we spread the ball around. Bowers himself would not get enough targets to replicate those numbers here.

10th most yards for a rookie TE in NFL history...did you miss that part too?

In case people forgot: Kincaid as a rookie had the 4th most receptions by a rookie TE in history and 10th most yards. Season 2 he missed some games, played hurt and battled knee issues. I think he has a lot to prove this year for sure, but also think the doom patrol circling him like vultures is a bit much at this stage.

I agree with you...Diggs in 2023 is the most talented individual player between the two WR rooms, even if thats not peak Diggs. No dispute from me...but its what "group" is better, and 2023 Diggs isn't so good that it elevates that lesser whole room to be better than the 5 collective guys we have today IMO. Now add in how his impact fell off in Brady's system, the overall drama and dark cloud he brought to the team, and the impact having him or not having him has on Josh's game and it really diminishes his "value' in how I would look at it. So for me IMHO, the 2025 group as a whole is a better unit, will get better results, and will give us the best chance to win a SB over the 2023 group if it was all here today exactly as it was in 2023.

I was yelling for 2 rounds to take Wilson...when we traded up I thought 100% it had to be for Wilson. Part of my soul died when I heard TJ Graham's name called and I was like who Da F is that?

Totally fair question and good question - If you are going to pick what WR between the 2 years is the most accomplished or best overall player, the only correct answer is Diggs. But these are the considerations that also factor in: This is a 5 vs 5 comparison, not which of the 2 groups had the single most talented player. Talent is only part of the equation, its about how does that fit in within the offense we run. Diggs not only was no where near the same player in Brady's offense he had been during his tenure in Buffalo, but he wasn't even the leading receiver (Shakir was) during that period despite double the targets of anyone else under Brady. Josh I fully believe is better without him than with him and the tension he brings. Was Diggs still a strong WR1 in 2023, yes of course. Was he as good as he had been his first 2 years in Buffalo where he was a top 5 WR in the NFL, not IMO. Was he as good as he was in 2022...maybe, but he didn't look like it the 2nd half of 2023 in Brady's system and had costly drops, including one that could changed the outcome of the KC game on a dime bomb from Allen. And honestly I thought he faded some the 2nd half of 2022 and postseason too under Dorsey. I was a big Diggs guy, my dogs name is Diggs. This isn't to throw shade at him. I was even one of the ones (who was totally wrong) and put his foot in his mouth and thought there was no chance Beane would take the massive cap hit to move him when we did and thought he would instead do it in 2024 if things remained tense with him and Allen/Team. But make no mistake about it, I was also very confident that we got better as a team and offense through addition by subtraction when we moved on from Diggs drama and let Gabe leave. And if you check my 2023 offseason history, you will see that wasn't just hindsight, I was very vocal about that belief. During the season in 2023, I started threads demanding things like calling for Dorsey to get fired, less snaps for Gabe and more for Shakir, etc. In the offseason, I started the Calling it now thread on Shakir the day after Diggs was traded, kept telling everyone Mack Hollins is better than people think and will have a real role in the offense, that the offense would still be top 5 in the NFL, we might see Josh Allens most efficient and best season, and that it would maybe be Allens best shot at MVP when he does given the perceptions heading into the season about the WR room. I said all those things a lot all offseason. So while I know Diggs is the best "individual", I don't think just having him in the WR room makes it the best group for this offense and Allen. Nor do I think the 2023 version of Diggs is talented enough to erase the deficit I think the rest of the 2023 group faces in comparison to the 2025 group. Just my 2 cents

I don't know what made me more sad...remembering that the unqualified joke of a FO back then brought in dying corpses like Young, Bush, and Leinart during their career farewell tours or the reminder we took Whitner over Ngata. I feel like I need a shower just thinking about this grossness lol

Just some honest feedback to your point above - when you keep making the same argument/points to people who differ in your opinion, you are gonna keep getting the same responses back. I mean you are in every WR thread and even starting threads to just say all the same stuff thats been beaten to death already. And lets be real, all this WR outrage is also coming off a season where the offense was historically great as a whole and appears, at least on paper, to be better today than it was when we last saw them on the field. Keon has a year under his belt now, Palmer is a better down field presence than either The Ghost of Cooper was or Mack, our guys are healthy in Kincaid, Keon, and Samuel, and that was just the first full year under Brady. But I also get it, I was pounding the drum to get Donte Thornton all offseason who went 1 pick before us after we traded up. I can assure you there isn't one fan that would have been upset to see us take a vertical threat WR. The difference for me and many others is, we aren't sitting here coming of a historically great season offensively thinking because we didn't grab some Day 3 guy in a weak draft class overall for WR that we are screwed either. I mean I was I bummed to see us trade a 2nd time with Chi to get back to 109 just to see "my guy" Thornton go to the Raiders at pick 108. Watching Embedded its clear it wouldn't have mattered, they showed they made the move to go get Deone before the Donte pick was even done. But rather than freak out, I was still excited about Deone who filled another need (size) I also had been clamoring for. He was a guy coming into this past season I thought was headed to be a first round pick before injuries held him back. If you don't want to keep getting the same responses back...maybe jump into some non-WR discussions...because lets be real, there hasn't been a "new" point brought up on either side about WR's in a long time. Just my 2 cents

Ok…so seeing Vince Young and Matt Leinart on this list legit blew my mind as I totally forgot their career farewell tours had a stop here. Who would have thought watching the absolute epic 2005 National Championship game with Young, Leinart, and Bush that they would all make stops here as shells of their former college glory on farewell tours of disappointing careers.

This isn't baseball where some HR hitter leaves and suddenly that team loses a bunch of HR's unless they speciffically bring people in to make up for them because those are individual feats, not team feats. This is a team sport where TD's are a function of the 11 guys on the field doing their jobs. Just because a player leaves does not automatically mean the team is no longer capable of still scoring those TD's that "departed". When we step on the field, there will be 11 guys on it just like last year. Our best players are all returning and we lost the Ghost of Cooper and Mack Hollins who combined to avg just 4.3 rec per game. I am pretty sure between Keon healthy again and no longer splitting time, Kincaid and Samuel healthy, the additions of Palmer and Moore that we can safely say the group we are putting on the field is capable of making up for that minimal lost production and the TD's too. And as far as the rushing TD's...we have a great OL, a tank of a QB who is the most dangerous runner at QB in the redzone maybe in league history, and a great RB room...of course that is going to result in a lot of ground TD's, and it should, as its a much lower risk and higher percentage play then trying to throw in a short field deep in the redzone. Having at least 30 scores on the ground and 30 passing is like every team and coaches wet dream. So for me...I am not personally concerned about what left or how many of those we scores came on the ground.

Come on bro lol...you started the discussion because you disagree with an opinion I shared (which is fine and fair). Then you continued to keep it going (also fair and kind of the point to a discussion), but got to the point it made me quit the discussion because it was starting to get silly and off the rails. And I left it with an agree to disagree as there wasn't really anywhere else for the convo to go. But now you come back with this sort of poorest me post? Lol...no offense, but thats a bit much I will give you this though, this was pretty funny and I legit laughed, so kudos on that

Haha the comments have TSW vibes

Bahaha still reeling from your blunder yesterday I see 😂. The desperation and free rent I have in your head makes my nipples dance. Never change boo 😘

Yeah, and if they do get a couple more stops that means more drives and scoring opportunities for the offense. And like we agree, totally reasonable to not expect another season of the fewest negative plays in history. But lets say Josh gets sacked 15 more times this year, that is just 15 plays over a course of the season...not even one a game. So it doesn't mean they were all drive ending sacks, if any. Sack on first down or 2nd down and we can still pick up the first and keep the drive alive and go on to score. So even with a reasonably expected regression to some degree in the fewest negative plays category, it doesn't necessarily mean it will significantly impact our PPG, if even at all. Now add in the aspect the defense hopefully getting off the field a couple more times a game and putting the ball back in Josh's hands and potentially with better field position, we very well could see our scoring go up even above our historic scoring season last year. Im really excited to see this team on the field. All of this is speculation until the games are played, and we have a lot of young players who will be expected to contribute early or take a step this year, so nothing is assured. But today, before we see it on the field, this feels like the most talented roster that maybe Josh has had to date top to bottom. Still won't be an easy path though, Ravens got some people in the draft I would have preferred to see go elsewhere. KC is still gonna be tough too, especially with Rice back.

Yet I just did now didn't I. But hey, keep trying to take the convo to the muck just because we don't agree. Hope that serves you well bud ✌️