Alphadawg7

Then maybe you haven't read this thread where most either are unsure about him or disagree he can be more than a role player.

Thank you sir

Rex wouldn't have the record McD has to keep him around this long. Have people forgotten how bad the Rex coaching era was?

Odunze is my favorite WR for this team of the top 3 to be honest and the one I hope falls to a range where we might go up and get him. He is the kind of WR that can be dominant in good or bad weather, something we need. His ability to go get the ball is best in class. I would be ecstatic if we ended up with him in this draft, but just don't want to pay QB level trade compensation to do so as that is crazy to do in a draft this good at WR. I think if Odunze can get into the mid to late teens he gets into realistic trade up territory where I can see Beane sending 28 and next years first for him, which is more palatable now that we got an extra second next year. But some of these trade ideas others have of sending like 5 picks to go up to top 10 to get him is insane. If it costs more than our first next year, its too much in a draft this good for WR's

Sorry Gunner, and again, no disrespect, but you disagreed with me a lot about McKenzie specifically. I wasn't saying you disagreed with Shakir back then as I know you liked the Shakir pick in the draft, and I know you agreed and felt he was the future of the position, as a lot of us did. But what I am talking about is my specific criticism of McKenzie. I repeatedly stated he is not a starter, that he won't give us much more than we had already seen from him. These are the things you kept disagreeing with on, specifically on McKenzie and his ability to contribute as a starter that season and what we would get from him that year. And I was exactly right about everything I said about McKenzie that whole offseason that so many disagreed about. He was so bad the team desperately signed back Cole to get McKenzie off the field with Crowder out and Dorsey not interested in getting Shakir on the field as a rookie. To be clear here on Shakir, I have not claimed Shakir can be a primary boundary player. What I have said is he is not a slot only guy, he can move inside and out, and already has for us last year alone. Even in my OP I said his biggest short coming is his shorter arms. And also, people pigeon hole "slot" WR's as if they are short area players only. Shakir can attack all the levels of the defense out of the slot and has the skills to do that. So even when lined up in the slot doesn't mean he is restricted to stereotype of what people think of when they think of a "slot" WR. Most people just picture the Cole Beasley role, but that is such a lazy and poor comparison for his style and skill set.

No disrespect Gunner, but you also heavily disagreed and defended McKenzie to me when I said all offseason and training camp he was not good enough to be a starter for this team and wouldn't do a whole lot more than he has done before. And I even said the team knows it which is why they drafted Shakir and signed Crowder after bringing McKenzie back on that 2 year deal. And this is another example where I think you are off again on the WR analysis here. Shakir is more than a slot only guy, he is a totally different player than Cole who was only capable of playing in the slot. And Shakir showed that last year already where he moved inside and out in this offense and wasn't just strictly a slot. But I do agree he will probably eat the most from the slot, but he isn't restricted there like someone like Cole was. And more importantly, Allen loves utilizing his slot WR, so he can be highly productive out of the slot for this team and at a higher degree then Cole because he can attack the seems and deep posts with his speed from the slot rather than just more those short area move the chain zones where Cole made his bread and butter.

So what you are saying is know nothing about Shakir then. Got it. He isn't small, he is the same size or bigger as a number of great WR1's including Diggs. He isn't slow, he is faster than Diggs and has a 4.43 forty which is faster than a lot of the WR's people want us to draft in round 1. Not good at YAC? Are you serious? Lol, he has been EXCELLENT at YAC and averaged over 15.6 yards per catch because of it. Drops? He had the highest catch rate in the league for a WR and had 0 drops. So yeah...another one of those "I know nothing but gonna respond with nonsense anyway just based on my uninformed opinion posts".

Why do you think he doesn't have those when he showed plenty of times he can do that last year alone and did it in college?

He is more than a slot WR. Same size, speed and build as a lot of great WR1's both now and historically. This notion he is only a slot WR isn't accurate, he can play inside and out. Cole was only a slot WR for example...Lance Moore was only a slot WR. These are not the same players as Shakir nor the same skill sets.

I didn’t say he’s getting to 1200 yards, I said based on his efficiency last year he would have reached 1200 yards on 90 targets.

I don't disagree with your premise here or the impact a rookie may have. Just prior to the Diggs trade, I was asked by a poster here to layout what I thought of Shakir. And I said I confidently will say he can be a 1000+ yard WR this year on a number of teams in the NFL, but he will likely never be in Buffalo as long as Diggs is here because of the 160 targets Diggs commands every year. You can't catch what isn't thrown to you, and outside of Diggs we still had Samuel, Kincaid, Cook, etc who will all get their own targets. So felt it was unlikely anyone outside of Diggs would breach 1000 yards with so many mouths to feed and Diggs target share. However, now we are post Diggs era earlier than expected. Shakir is now the only WR on the team with any rapport and experience with Josh. And we are coming off a year where Shakir was arguably the best WR down the stretch and in the playoffs and he led the team in receiving over that stretch. So there is going to be a bigger role and confidence to start the season unlike last year where he was only on the field 11% of the snaps early in the season under Dorsey (who is a fool). We also know that McD and this team prefer to ease Rookies along rather than lean on them hard out the gate. While I think it is plausible that we will see a rookie start as early as week 1 this year, I don't think it is plausible that he will see any where near Diggs target share. But there is still Samuel too along with Kincaid, Knox, and Cook too. So I think the floor for targets for Shakir is probably 60 targets and the ceiling is probably 120 targets this year with how many mouths we have to feed. Personally, I think he will finish personally between 90 and 110 targets in a spread the ball around offense, and based on last year, just 90 targets would have put him over 1200 yards with the level of efficiency he played with.

Its all good, and to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong about Lance. I am more saying I think you are wrong on limiting Shakirs potential to be what Lance was. Not saying Lance Moore was a scrub, but he was never more than a role player most of his career. Nothing against Lance Moore, but I do confidently believe Shakir has a higher ceiling than Moore and will have the better career. Doesn't mean Lance had a bad career, I just firmly believe Shakir has a higher ceiling than that. I will give you this...I would say I think Shakirs floor is more in line with Lance Moore. I think Shakir already showed he can handle that type of role last year moving forward. Where we differ is that I think his ceiling is higher than that and I have confidence he is going to show that.

Thanks, that is mainly because I have only done them when I had a very strong conviction about the topic I was discussing. If you haven't already, urge you to just watch the highlights of Shakir this season in my OP. I get highlight reels can make anyone look good, but these are not just routine plays he is making and he was the most reliable target on the team to boot. You can see the route running, the soft hands, the intelligence and quick feet to break off and get open for Josh to make a big play to him when Josh is moving around to extend a play, the toughness and speed after the catch, the way he gets extra yards on almost every catch, his great feet along the sidelines, etc. We will see...but yeah, I just feel it again with him and comfortable putting that out there with confidence again.

Yeah, what makes Kupp special is his sudden movement speed combined with how smart he is as a player. But, Puka Nacua is an interesting one to bring up. Having watched him all year, I kept saying (even posted on here) that if Shakir had been in LA this year instead of Puka, he would have put up a big season too with a target load like that. However, Puka plays bigger than Shakir, so not sure their styles line up as much as say their roles would. I think Shakir would have filled in that role in a similar fashion statistically, but Puka does use that size in his play and is a bit more physical in his game before the catch. Shakir is physical after the catch, but he doesn't have the size or arm length to play big before the catch.

Sorry that just isn't accurate. Kupp was not seen as a true WR1 prior to the Stafford season, that was the point. I live in LA, watch every Rams game. When he had 92 and 94 catches, he only broke 1000 yards once and Robert Woods operated more as the WR1 role, but most people kind of felt the Rams had two WR2 guys in Woods and Kupp. Kupp did not enter true WR1 and top end WR status until that monster year with Stafford that no one saw coming where he had 800 more yards than his best career season. By the way, Kupp only has 2 seasons in his career over 1000 yards. But see...here is the issue. STATS don't compare styles. You are comparing stats. I am talking about the style of play. Shakir and Kupp have a similar style of play and if you watch both long enough you can see it. Shakir openly discusses studying Kupp and patterning his game off how he plays too. Are they the exact same player no, but they have similar styles. And sorry, picking the 3 best stat lines (which are mostly mediocre) of a long career full of sub par stat lines for Moore does not at all translate into a fair comparison to Shakir. Again, I will with extreme confidence say he will have a better career and be a better player than Lance Moore was. He was a decent role player with a couple decent seasons in his career, but that was about it.

All good, this isn't one of those things where I am going to tell everyone they are wrong. More just putting it out there now where my level of confidence is, and has always been, with Shakir in this league. I have done a few of these Calling it now posts and all have been spot on or very close to spot on because I only do it when I really feel it. And I can't tell you why, but I have just always felt it about Shakir going back to college. And agree, the Beasley comparison makes no sense at all. Honestly, those people comparing him to Beasley are just making a lazy comparison because they see them both as slot WRs even though they are not remotely similar as players. Cole was quick, not fast. He was smart, not tough. He was a move the chains slot guy, not a make a big play slot guy. Don't get me wrong, Cole was a very good slot WR, he was just solely a slot WR and a short area specialist. Shakir can move inside and outside, he is fast and can beat you downfield. He isnt as fast as Cole with that sudden movement, but few are, and Shakir is still quick himself with good route running to go with it. All good, I am glad you at least see him as a valuable player. But I do think you find out he is more than you are giving him credit for this upcoming season. And if I am wrong, so be it, he will still be a valuable role player and fun to watch, that much he has already proved.

As you can see by the responses here...most still see him as more of a role player as I was saying. Nothing wrong with that, but this is what I mean when I say I believe everyone is about to see the arrival of Shakir as more than just a role player many think he is.

All good, its why I started this thread. A lot of people feel the same as you, nothing wrong with that. Honest question...did you watch the highlight video? I think people forget the kind of plays he was making when he got opportunities. These were not just a bunch of simple plays. The route running, concentration, hands, body control, physicality, YAC ability were all on display. I think people still have a limited view of him based on his draft slot of the 5th round because what he has shown glimpses of on the field is pretty strong.

And thats fair...that just means it will be even more fun for you when you find out this year HA

Rex wouldn't have the record McD has to keep him around this long.

No disrespect, but I can confidently say he will be a much better player than Lance Moore. I am not saying he is as good as Kupp, but no one thought Kupp was a WR1 until he had a monster season with Stafford one year and got an insane 191 targets. For Kupp, it was a change at QB and almost 200 targets to break out into legit WR1 discussions...for Shakir, it might just be the removal of a 160 target hog of Diggs. But he does pattern his game off of Kupp and studies him, and I felt his college tape reminded me a lot of Kupp even before he said that just in style of play. Big difference though between Shakir and Kupp is Shakir is quite a bit faster than Kupp down field (4.43 compared to a 4.64 forty time) but Kupp has excellent sudden movement so he plays a lot faster than his 40 time suggests in the short and mid areas of the field where he eats the most.

If he gets 80 receptions, he will definitely be over 1000 yards. He is too good after the catch not to be. Cole was amazing at getting to a spot and making the play to move the chains. He wasn't the YAC guy that Shakir is, Cole was easy to take down and tackle.

I don't disagree, I even referenced his season as a mini breakout last year and some are seeing what I have been saying since 2022, but most are still over looking him and what his potential now is with Diggs gone. Most still think of him as more of a role player.

Heading into the draft in 2022 I posted about keeping an eye on Shakir and the Bills. I missed rounds 3 and 4 and came back to the draft right as we were announcing our pick in the 5th having no idea he was still on the board and was stunned when they called his name and thought I misheard it because I figured he would go in rounds 2 or 3. I was thrilled when we called his name, maybe the most excited I have ever been about a pick that wasn't an early round choice, and I have been maybe his biggest cheerleader since getting here. Ive got a pretty good track record on WR's around here, and he was one I felt from the get go was going to be different and develop into a great player for us. Ive posted threads and countless comments about him since we took him, and here is a quote back in early May after the draft showing an example of that belief in him early on and not just since his mini breakout this year. Now after reading that above from May of 2022...watch this highlight video and tell me that doesn't look spot on to how I described hm. From how he plays as a WR, to how he has some Deebo and AJ Brown in him with the ball in his hands. SHAKIR HIGHLIGHTS CLICK HERE (highly suggest you watch before commenting to at least see what I am referencing) This man is an excellent route runner...has sure hands...runs a 4.43 forty...is shifty...excels with YAC and is tough when running...and he is a smart player. Most importantly, he has the drive to be great and trains in the offseason with players like Moulds. His biggest shortcoming is he doesn't have long arms which makes him less of a go up and get it WR, but we don't need him to be that when he is so good at everything else. 2023 Stats: 87% Catch Rate, 39 Rec on 45 Targets, 611 Yards (13.5 yards per TARGET - insane), 15.6 YPC, 2 TD's Diggs had 160 targets in 2023 for 1183 yards. Now I know Diggs is drawing the best of the defense a lot of the times, so its not an apples to apples comparison. But just out of curiosity, what does Shakir's season look like on 160 targets based on his stats last year? Diggs: 160 Targets, 107 Rec, 1183 yards, 8 TD's Shakir: 160 Targets, 139 Rec, 2160 yards, 7 TD's Again, I know that is an unrealistic comparison given the level of defensive attention both got and how Shakir benefits from the extra attention Diggs takes. BUT...that is a massively different level of efficiency and effectiveness. And defenses STILL will have to contend with Shakir, what ever rookie we draft, Kincaid, Samuel, Knox, Cook as receiver and Allen running. So Shakir still should see plenty of opportunities against the defenses moving forward. I mean, even if he just gets up to 100 targets, that is still a 1,350 yard season, and make no mistake about it, he very well could (and probably should) see 100 targets this year. He is going to be the ONLY WR with any experience and rapport with Josh entering camp, he definitely caught Josh's attention and the teams last year and became a play making machine who they trust. This team notoriously likes to ease Rookies in as much as they can, so doubtful any rookie is coming in commanding anywhere near Diggs target share. Dorsey was an idiot for not using him in 2022 when we needed help bad in the slot...he was a bigger fool for not getting him involved earlier in 2023. In Joe Bradys first game, Shakir had his first career 100 yard game and would go on to end the season with another one. Diggs had 0 games with 100 yards during that stretch. In the aftermath of the Diggs trade...the time is now. I think you will see Shakir emerge as a legit WR and legit weapon for this team and not only will he break 1000 yards this year, he very well may lead the team in both receptions and yards. And I think he is one of the reasons they felt confident to trade Diggs now rather than later. You heard it hear first...and have been hearing it here about him since before the 2022 draft. #WitnessTheArrival

Came here to say this because you knew we were about to turn the corner and it was gonna be after he was gone after suffering all those years here.