Alphadawg7

Mic drop. Well played. You win the internet today sir 🤣

I get what you are saying, and I’m not against drafting WRs, as I said I was beating the Donte Thornton drum all offseason. But…I mean I think you can make a case that our room is currently cheap and talented currently. Keon is a young ascending WR who showed promise before the injury…Shakir is still probably not peaked and already a very good player who’s on a bargain of an extension. Palmer brings a lot of what we needed and didn’t break the bank…Samuel and Moore round out 4th and 5th spots fairly cheap and are guys who could start on other teams at end of our bench. The other key receiving weapons also have to be factored into the overall picture where Kincaid, also cheap and is ascending still, and we have 3 RBs who are all dangerous as pass catchers. I don’t know that adding some day 3 WR in lieu of Moore after the draft makes that room look any better on paper or “more talented” personally. It gives maybe more “upside potential” given that rookie could surprise and breakout into a better player than say some of the 5 WRs we currently have, but there is no way to know that before they step on a field. I liked Royals and thought he could be a target for us day 3, but I didn’t go into the draft or leave the draft thinking any of those WR guys were must get guys, where passing on them could be a huge mistake either. Odds are, especially in this weaker class, they aren’t going to be anything better than we already have, if even that. As with any draft, any one of them could break out and be a good to great player, but odds are not great in general before you factor in this wasn’t a great class overall. After watching embedded episode 2, it was clear the guys we took instead were all top of the board “go get” guys they loved. Doesn’t mean that 3 years from now their choices will be proven correct by any means, but it does mean they didn’t intentionally pass on any of those day 3 WRs and instead took guys who were not just the top of their board, but guys who really stuck for them. And for me, that’s all I want my GM to do, don’t reach and take the guys they graded to be the best player available. I think, and Beane has said exactly this too (and I believe him), this was just a function of where the draft was strong at and weak at. Beane isn’t done at WR, and he won’t be heading into next year either. If he sees a chance to add one that can help, he’s proven he will do it even during the season. And next year, if this group is weak this year, I think you will see Beane aggressive at adding what we need, especially after we really rebuilt our D this offseason overall. I do still wish we landed Donte Thornton though

Except literally all of this is nonsense and wreaks of your typical desperation after being wrong about something…so theres that too lmao. 🤡 show continues. Even after all this time the severity of your little man complex never ceases to amaze ✌️

I think we see more out of Bosa than I think some expect in a bit of a resurgence season for him with how deep our DL is and how the rotations will help keep him fresh and healthy. I agree on Deone Walker, I think he’s going to be rotating but will be in on some important moments come playoff time using his length with Groot and Landon to not only step up the run D, but also to wreak havoc on passing lanes all that height and length.

16th most points ever...33rd highest PPG (takes games played out of the equation) is historically great...its the literal definition of that. You want to disagree then that’s your right. But it doesn’t change the fact they are both 2 historically great numbers. Wrong again lol. Bills had BOTH the most points AND the highest PPG in the AFC Playoffs. Everything I said was a fact. You took one subjective line about the facts and made it the entirety of facts while ignoring the long list of actual facts I listed...and why...because your read the facts wrong in the first place that started this initial convo with your initial incorrect reply where you missed the fact I literally said in the AFC. It’s your typical muddy the water schtick to mask when you make mistakes like you did earlier. This has run its course ✌️

Except its not...and who cares, this is a subjective opinion. The point was, remains, and still is what I already said. Bills scored the most points in the AFC both in regular season and the post season...yet we did NOT emerge from the AFC. Meanwhile...we did give up 32 points to a team that did not score 30 the entire year and was down 34-0 at one point in their very next game. But please...lets keep carrying on splitting hairs about where the 16th highest scoring offense in NFL history subjectively falls on the all time greatest list as if that matters at all in relation the original point.

16th most points all time...that is the 16th greatest offense in NFL history in my book...Which is both subjective and an opinion, but not even remotely close to a lie. You can disagree with it and have a different opinion of the offenses historical place...but ease up on the lying accusations when this convo started because you couldn't read the post correctly

Geezus...this kid learned nothing. I mean I am sure he ordered this before his draft fall given it took time to make...but after all that has transpired from draft night, the hit his rep has taken, the embarrassment of his draft party room, etc you would think common sense would kick in and not put this on social media. Personally, if he can focus on just football I think he will win the starting job. But this kid sure is making it look more and more like he just doesn't get it. He is a 5th round pick, his roster spot is not even assured at this point. The footage of the Browns War room showed no excitement, almost a somber like atmosphere when they cut to it when they picked him.

That is interesting, and all I am going on is what its kicking out when I filtered by total points and then PPG. It has us as 16th most points and 22nd by PPG. But seems Statmuse isn't doing something consistently if its giving a different data set under a different prompt. Either way...16th most points all time, and what really matters is how that compares to teams around us currently who are all playing the same number of games we are and not scoring more points than us. I mean only 2 teams ahead of us since 2020, and one was the Lions this year. Keep in mind, Bills also tied the NFL record for most wins by 20+ in 2024 where the offense took the foot off the gas for entire quarters and some halves, plus Josh Allen sat week 17. And my original points/facts were we were the highest scoring AFC team both in reg season and postseason both in PPG and Points and 16th most points all time...offense is not why we didn't make it out of the AFC and into the SB.

I mean all the teams in the league are playing on this schedule...and we are talking about in comparison to us and the rest of the league. And there are only 2 teams since 2020 that have scored more points than the Bills did in 2024 despite all the teams during that span playing the same amount of games. And Bills by PPG are 22nd all time in 2024. Still historically great. 2024 Bills were the 22nd highest scoring team based on PPG in NFL history. So yeah...still batting .000% today sport

Yeah sorry typo...hence why I said highest scoring offense, as in points, fixed it so thanks

Oh boy...so let me see...first you dont read the post correctly and incorrectly refute what was the actual facts. But rather than just chalk that up to a misread goof, you want to still find a way to be right about something...Ok...but except...well...you're not 😬 https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-highest-scoring-offenses-by-year 16th all time. 2024 Lions were number 4 FYI...hence why Bills were #2 despite being the 16th most points all time. Bonus fun fact: Bills scored the most total points in 2024 between reg season and postseason combined, yes more than the SB Champ Eagles. Batting .000% today sport

I guess you missed the part where I said "AFC". So maybe read the posts correctly before you incorrectly refute what is the actual facts sport 😉

Please don't share some one off highlight on Mack like you have been some champion of him after you slammed him for almost a year before accepting he could also catch. I was one of his biggest supporters and defenders here going back to when we signed him during the offseason when you all said he was trash and I said he is a better WR than you think and he is an excellent blocker. I said all off season he was going to play a lot of snaps while you all melted down over him. But make no mistake about it, blocking is his specialty and best attribute and Palmer is without a doubt a better WR in the passing game by pretty much every metric.

I really liked signing Moore...but his peking order in expected targets is probably down in the 7th or 8th range at best. He is already entering as WR5 behind Keon, Shakir, Palmer, and Samuel...but you still have targets going to our TE's and RB's too. I do think he will bring some value to the team though when they want to get some more speed on the field and he will get some chances to make some plays for us, I just don't expect a meaningful stat line by years end based on his expected snap count unless injuries get him on the field more. But he is good depth for us, and if he shows more than Samuel did, its not out the question to over take him on the depth chart either.

I didn't use the words excited...I said on paper we are better today than when we last left the field. Replacing the Ghost of Cooper and I only Block Mack Hollins with Palmer and Moore adds more of what we were missing to the arsenal. Mistake number 1 is focusing on whether they will improve their stats from their top seasons. That is not what our offense is nor is it the roles in passing game they will play...we are an offense that has 5 WRs, 2 TEs, and 3 RBs right now involved in our passing game. Guys here play roles, that is how our offense is built. Palmer and especially Moore are not going to see the targets necessary to likely best their career highs without injuries playing a significant role in that. And that isn't a function of "could they with Allen", that is a function of their role in this system and the design of this offense to spread the ball around in true everybody eats fashion. So no disrespect, what history shows is irrelevant to why they are here, what a successful season will be for them, etc. Especially, Moore who had his best season when he saw a lot of snaps...he is 5th on the depth chart here in just the WR room alone in an offense that also features 2 TE's and 3 RB's as targets in our passing game too. None of that would be different for some day 3 WR we would have drafted either. I agree with you that our young nucleus of Shakir, Keon and Kincaid are going to really determine how our offense fares this season. Keon is putting in the work this offseason, which is encouraging. Kincaid will be coming in healthy after battling all year with playing with injuries, and Shakir I don't think has peaked yet, but even if he has, he is a pretty darn good player for Josh and this offense. And again, I am all about grabbing lottery tickets for the future...but in a weak WR draft reaching for one over a better player prospect would be a mistake, especially for a guy who will likely contribute very little this year at the bottom of our WR bench and even further back in the targets peking order. Meanwhile someone like Deone Walker can play meaningful minutes this year and contribute to help our defense get off the field once or twice more a game which will significantly help this team more than some end of the bench lottery ticket WR.

Gotcha and all good. And don't mistake me either, I was pounding the drum hard all off season to draft Donte Thornton, who not only had elite size and speed that is more than rare, but was the kind of story and character that screams Buffalo. He went one pick before us though to the Raiders even though we traded up in the 4th. But honestly, this was not a good draft to be forcing the issue at WR. And quite honestly, we are very young as it is at WR with young talent in Shakir (who I don't think has peaked yet), Keon, Samuel, Palmer, and Kincaid (whose job is to catch passes). So it's not like we are devoid of young talent either and Moore is still just 25 as well with as much potential or more than anyone we could have taken day 3, especially this season. I just think Beane staying true to his board and taking the highest graded prospect rather than reaching for a lesser graded WR in a weak WR class was the correct approach. Especially given the state of our offense and defense respectively. And its fair to have differing opinions, and I respect that, and no issue with anything you have said really. But the meltdown by others, over exaggeration of the gravity of the situation, etc is not only way over the top, but its being beaten to death the same posters and dragged all over this board to insufferable lengths.

No disrespect, I am not sure a reasonable argument can be made to support us not being a top offense in 2024, not to mention the people who don't see the offense as a top offense last year are heavily in the minority, both on this board and across media, the NFL, etc. Again, not sure a reasonable argument can be made to support this either. We are the highest scoring team over the past 5 years, being a top tier offense in 2024 was not some sort of outlier that is unreasonable to expect to continue. We did add more talent and are better on paper heading into the season than we were when we last walked off the field against KC. No one would object to adding another WR, everyone loves adding talent to this team...but man is this topic getting beaten to death and grossly exaggerated. When we last saw this offense on the field for its last series, we had guys open and wide open on every down. And what I find more interesting is this notion that we are doomed because we didn't draft a project WR in the mid rounds of a bad WR draft whose odds of contributing more to this team in 2025 are significantly lower than what Moore can potentially do for this team. Meanwhile, our defense was a massive liability...not just a small liability, but a significant anchor on this teams efforts to move forward both last year and every playoff exit. Our offense did enough for us to win all our playoff games...our defense did enough to lose us both the Ravens game and Chiefs game until the Ravens bailed us out with self inflicted mistakes. Nit picking about our offense is like nitpicking between a Ferrari and a Lambo...meanwhile our defense has been a used Toyota Camry.

I don't know we ever had a defense though where people felt it was a "top defense". We also can't live in the past and also not live in this notion that Josh can still keep doing more. That was a different defense in Fraziers gross bend but don't break soft defense and we were missing our best player on defense that year in Tre. Thats like saying well Elam didn't work out so we should never draft a CB again in the first round. It has no relevancy on today...there are not even many players on this defense from that 2021 team. We were the 16th greatest offense in NFL history this year despite the offense coasting whole quarters and halves in our NFL record number of blow out wins and Josh sitting week 17. Asking the offense to be even better is a ridiculous expectation when meanwhile our defense was bottom of the league in first downs allowed and 3rd down conversions. What is more achievable ask and more realistic to see a noticeable improvement? Also...the top 10 offenses of all time only had 3 teams win a SB, none of the top 4 either. In fact, the top 2 (2007 Pats and 2013 Broncos) got shut down in the Super Bowl and lost to conservative offenses with top tier defenses..numbers 3 and 4 didn't even reach a SB. So more offense has not been the answer historically either.

Facts: Highest scoring team in the AFC in both the regular season and post season...and 16th greatest offense in NFL history. Facts: The offense has to try and be perfect and score 35+ points per playoff game because the defense is giving up 35 PPG to the Chiefs in the postseason. A team that lost the next game 3 times after eliminating us where they avg 17 points per game (less than half they score on us). Facts: We had guys open and wide open multiple times on our last series, the personnel at WR was not at all why we failed on our last series. Batted passes at he LOS, missed throws, and cheating the protection to the wrong side all during those 4 plays is why our wide open receivers and TE's did not receive the ball. It was not because guys were not open. Facts: Bills Defense was amongst the worst in the NFL both in 3rd down conversions and 1st downs allowed and was highly dependent on turnovers, an unsustainable way to play defense, especially against the better QB's in the post season. Its mind blowing how people keep clamoring for "help" for Josh Allen and completely whiffing on the very obvious way to give Allen the most help is to give him a defense that can just get off the field once or twice more a game so the offense isn't being asked to be perfect at all times.

What is mind blowing to me is that they cut him after they drafted Mike Green lol.

Don’t be surprised to see Groot, Jackson, and Deone on the field together in certain passing situations too with all those long arms that can disrupt passing lanes, alter throws, and deflect passes too. Honestly I thought that Jackson might be who they were moving up for too. Wasn’t sure, but thought it could be him.

I have not checked the stats myself, but I have seen this multiple times and saw some prominent sports media people discuss this before, so I think it is accurate. Here are some stats that I know are true that certainly support these numbers as well: In the Bills 4 playoff losses to KC: KC averages 36 PPG against the Bills in the playoffs making 9 total tops over 4 games pretty plausible. KC went on to lose the very next game 3 times in the postseason. Those 3 seasons, KC scored 35 PPG against Bills just to average 17 PPG in their very next game, all losses. KC did not score over 30 in any game the entire season and postseason except against the Bills with 32. KC was down 34-0 in the 3rd quarter, so certainly suggests 9 straight stops in the SB. So yeah, I am going to go with almost certainly true, or at the very worst, very close to accurate. But hey...lets not get distracted by facts, stats, and logic, I mean who cares about that stuff right...boring. Lets get back on track and get back to sensationalism and beating that dead horse yelling about WR's some more 😂

Baltimore is the only one that concerns me, especially after the pieces they added in the draft to what was already the best defense in league once they shifted Hamilton.

Imagine thinking there is more to be said on this subject