HardyBoy

Yes

That's what I'm asking...I know if you trade a player their guarenteed money is accelerated to that season and is kept on the trading teams books (like Diggs). My question is if that is the case if the contract is not technically active yet...like Allen's extension didn't kick in until he played out his 5th year option and maybe even his 4th year of his rookie deal, can't remember exactly when he signed.

Can he be traded before the contract kicks in? How does that work, do they still have to eat the dead cap if they trade a player before an extension kicks in or can that be traded and the guarentee goes to the other team like had signed him? My guess is since the money is still put in escrow by the team they would still he responsible for the guarenteed cap hit, but just curious.

Well said and just saw an opportunity for exploring some nuance and where it really gets interesting is a player like Dareus after he signed the contract...it's not like he just retired, he was still exposing himself to injury...I feel like a substance addiction almost makes it easier to justify or perhaps explain away the behavior, but they kinda Jerry Garcia'd their careers, and i don't mean that as a knock on Garcia, I'm a huge fan of his and it's a crazy nuanced super sad issue, but he didn't really die because of substances, but because he stopped giving a crap and ate himself to death (plus the substances). I think there were some deitifcation aspects that for sure contributed to Garcia's downfall and him being a hugely empathetic person and wanting to help people around him and not let them down by taking a break from touring, which his life depended on. Actually a lot of analogous things there with Jerry Garcia...poor dude just gave up eventually...super sad

Poyer almost drank himself to death while a member of the bills...I don't think addiction is a matter of character, certainly not in all cases and I'd argue not in most cases, but obviously there is a chicken and egg thing, but so much of it has to do with attachemnt and stuff that happened before you were even like 3 years old. You're dealing with emotions that both society has taught you that as a guy you are not allowed to have or something is wrong with you, and potentially an attachment style that prevents you from feeling safe in trusting other people to be able to express those feelings/not feel massive internal shame because of those feelings that you're not even consciously aware of. I'm not even talking about athletes, just regular people...those people turning to substances to help quiet those unconscious feelings and having that turn into an unintentionally destructive pattern of behavior where suddenly you're addicted to a substance, food, avoiding closeness with others, or just sitting on the couch and not being active/not taking care of your body. It can be insidious and the more you try and change it, the more it smashes into those toxic subconscious behavior patterns and it ensnareds you like one of those finger traps. Add to that the absolutely insane external pressure these guys are actually under and how people blame them for their lack of happiness and being blamed for losing someone a bet or fantasy. Anyway, I don't even think you said that addiction was a character issue directly, but the two words were close enough together in your post that I felt it was good to mention and that therapy is a really good thing and can be helpful for people and there are patterns of behavior that seem like they are so entirely unique to you, but then you realize the therapist has seen similar patterns over and over and over again and it's just a reasonable and understandable response to circumstances, but once you are aware it's a pattern you can think if that's really what you consciously would like to do and even if you can't stop yourself, you can at least start being mindful and taking small steps to make big changes. Lol, that was a lot of words! Also, I'm not saying we need to excuse bad behavior, just there is nuance and there is also a huge opportunity for a franchise to be able to understand that nuance and help people become the best versions of themselves both on and off the field, because that can be how you find some diamonds that others have thrown out, or maybe see that some of the sheen that people can see is actually fake and there are genuine concerns below the surface that are deep character concerns that maybe are so deep seeded they would destroy a locker room

That drive though can be such a negative thing when you need to give yourself patience from being injured...vulnerability, shame, disappointment, jealousy, etc...boys and men really don't have and aren't given the words to express these emotions and that leads to a huge epidemic of loneliness and isolation and many turn to substance abuse...I would guess a decent % on this board are dealing with similar things, but just amplify the pressure and expectations of being an absolutely elite top 0.1% athlete and then add on top of that being drafted in the top 5. I'd argue it's not typically a lack of mental toughness that brings people in sports down, but a lack of mental vulnerability...I'd probably also argue that being mentally tough means being able to be mentally vulnerable and mental toughness is based on being able to use all the tools in the emotional toolbox and not just the hammers that are happy or mad. Basically you don't get to the nfl unless you are insanely mentally tough...like could people be more tough sure, but I would expect any player in high level college or professional sports has pushed their body mentally more than the vast majority of people on the planet...the problem is when you fall, sometimes you need to sit there for a moment and feel those feelings and talk about them to get past them, before you get up and try and deal with them by rehabing to hard and ruining a career. I agree with a lot of what you wrote... I'm just taking mostly about the term mental fortitude and how that feels like you're saying he wasn't mentally tough enough, but I think maybe a better is mentally resilient and sometimes that means truly allowing oneself to experience and process all emotions.

Foot injuries suck... he had a monster season when he wasn't injured (that really looked like he was going to maintain and surpass that level year after year), but then rehurt his foot. Feel like I remember it being a situation where he tried playing through it and it made it much worse and impacted his career... I'm not going to judge anyone's mental toughness when you have all these expectations put on you that you are actually meeting and then you get hurt and have to rehab alone and the thing that has driven you every day since you were a kid is suddenly taken from you...I think he does so much better playing on the bills with this coaching staff...mental health didn't seem like a huge priority under Marrone and just how challenging it can be to play at an elite level and still feel like you aren't meeting expectations and then you get hurt and I've heard that in a lot of organizations, when you're injured your basically isolated and it's buffalo in the winter (I like winter weather, but I can't handle to western NY clouds in the winter, especially weeks with no sun and highs in the mid40s and just slush everywhere). Makes me think of James Hardy a bit to be honest. To answer your question though, no I don't think Sammy Watkins was a bust, because I don't think a career derailed by injuries can be considered a bust. Unfortunate for sure, though I do get the mental aspect of things...but like let's pretend Bill Walton doesn't heal from his initial foot injuries and doesn't have those two massive seasons before he reinjured his foot...would he be a bust? Was Greg Oden a bust? Maybe, Greg Oden had early career foot injuries as well, but it spun him out and he developed addictions and I'm not judging him, I can't imagine the pressure and to an extent the shame, but I don't know I don't think injuries can cause someone to be a bust (unless the people drafting the player know there are injury red flags, but even then it's a risk reward thing and I get saying a player who is injured needs to attack rehab, but at the same time, like the case I believe for Sammy Watkins and reading just now how Walton held out an entire season because he felt Portland was treating injuries in an unethical way, which makes me think he pushed too hard to come back too soon...sometimes over rehabbing an injury is a bad thing). Tldr, no i do not believe Sammy Watkins was a bust and until Steff Diggs joined the team I can't remember seeing another receiver with the suddenness and explosiveness and footwork to get open on their first step like those two did

Those early baseball teams kinda have a decently big asterisk, since the best collection of talent is based on relative to their competition and a huge part of the competition was prevented from playing in the league.

Haha, it sounds like you've fallen for the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" line enough times that now you're thinking...anything could possibly mean something, even when it actually means nothing! Also known as Post Stef Diggs Syndrome

His ceiling should be much higher than his rookie year in terms of his physical skill set... he should be in his physical prime right now...obviously if he puts up 850 and 10 tds that would be insanely huge, but if he puts himself in the position to get 850 yards, which means he figured out the offense and how to handle being schemed against and not letting the successes or failures of a season get him too high or low...and he becomes a key part of the offense that gets high value schemed up targets...I think it's fair to anticipate him being a far more physically developed and tactically nuanced player and I wouldn't be shocked if he did better than his rookie year, since his body is fully developed and he's in his prime now. I'm not saying I'm expecting that from him, I'm just saying for everyone saying his rookie year production would be amazing....I mean for sure it would be, but again if he positions himself to be that key of a contributor where his rookie year stats are in reach (which is a massive if), I think his ceiling would be higher than that due to him being in his prime.

Lol, it was very on point signing that from America too

Umm...that league doesn't have a championship game

I think a lot of the concern isn't at all that he has opinions, but that a lot of people trust and listen to his opinions. Add to that the fact that there are a lot of people who share many of his opinions that are also influencers who do not actually believe what they are saying and are doing it for engagement numbers, to make money, and to be liked. It feels calculated and contrived in some ways. Also, I think it's fair to assume there are people on this board who know people who have changed significantly as a result of the online algorithms pushing engagement through conspiracy theories (which yeah is kinda a conspiracy theory perhaps (I mean not really though, this is pretty clearly the case and not at all a profound statement)). Seeing someone, in their mind, continuing to rope people in, someone they view as a phony grifter...I could see how that could lead to feelings of anger and hurt and not caring, at least in the moment, if something bad happened to the person. Also, indifference isn't the same as wishing ill will, I don't think, but do we really want me to start typing a whole bunch of words trying to figure that out? I'll leave it here

Stuff like this happens in Miami all the time for what it's worth...the alleged trying to essentially steal a business because you're not willing to basically be extorted by the county government. I think that honestly is probably more likely than what he is getting arrested for doing.

I think that's easily explained by the foot injury he had... arguably one of the more impactful injuries the team had once White got hurt...and Elam's injury was was very early in training camp when iirc he was getting some positive reviews before he got hurt. Then the fans not know the entire season basically other than he was on IR and it sounds like Beane didn't know either until after it was obvious he was significantly injured and put on IR, so they couldn't really be super aggressive to replace White after he got hurt, because they figured they had Elam...at least that's how I am piecing how things went down

JP Losman was ruined by coaching actually... I'm with you on EJ

Steve is like a construct man, the opposite of which is Stu, don't be Stu. Lol, love that movie

I'm 40 years old and was recently asked how many concerts I have been to... I've been seeing shows since I've been 16 years old or so, let's round that up to 20 to account for not seeing shows during covid and when my two kids were super little for a few months (lol, except my youngest was born in December 2019, so there is overlap there). At an extremely conservative estimate at one concert a month, that's 12 a year for 20 years and puts me at 240... frame of reference, I saw about 10 concerts this year already just from Jan through May... I'm counting a show as anything that isn't like me going to a farmers market where there is music, unless I intentionally went for that music and watched the entire show... I'm talking big venues like Darien Lake, Great Woods, Coral Sky and most recently Walnut Creek where I live in Raleigh now, but also smaller theaters and concerts at bars (I'm not counting if there is live music randomly at a bar either, like I legit had to make an effort to see the band)... Ticketmaster and Live Nation suck so much, they're predatory, they sell these platinum tickets at crazy markups, while holding back the inventory or selling it to brokers to artificially manipulate supply... there's a whole bunch of stuff... getting fees like 10 times over... in most cases the best move is to wait until the day of the show to get tickets at the venue, for concerts at least... there are absolutely some hard to get tickets still, Billy Strings in Raleigh last summer for that Saturday show was super tough... but I just walked around adlibbing funny lines to a song I made up called "Who's got my extra, my heady extra" and got enough people laughing that finally someone was like I got one that I'll sell you $10 below face cause our friend bailed and we're looking to sell it to someone for a fair deal and screw him he'll owe us $10 for bailing last minute...ramble ramble Anyone going to the phish festival in Delaware this August by any chance?

I lived in the Fort Lauderdale area for 8 years from 2012 to 2020...were you walking around the area where Hard Rock is?! Hollywood is pretty cool, and has awesome parts, but also has some rough areas...walking around the Hard Rock hotel area like in the area off the hotel grounds, yeah I'd definitely not at all recommend doing that

Definitely possible... could also be where when they signed him they gave them their word that no matter if there is a spot ultimately for him, that if he comes in and genuinely tries and has an awesome attitude, that they would help him try and catch on with a different team. So where normally he would keep that in house and in a meeting room or a 1-1 convo with a player, he's saying it publicly because the guy has a reputation that maybe isn't fair or he is working on changing the perception.

Wonder if they'll go 12 personnel and use Kincaid, Shakir, and Coleman bunched with Kincaid on the line so he can be the one beating press and then Samuel as the weak side receiver and Knox in line... the jet sweep action with Samuel and shifting/ motioning in and out of that alignment... it's exciting. Then have Cook running counters with Brown and Dawkins pulling...I think this offense could be really cool to watch, I'm super excited

Are you consistent with that view point or are you good with people who break laws that you feel are unjust and are immoral?

What exactly did these two guys do that makes you call them bad people?

I don't agree with that interpretation...I see it as he was among a tier of players where they felt comfortable spending a pick without spending future assets to trade up, where they saw they had say five players when they were at 28 that they valued equally, so they knew if they dropped to 33 they would be guarenteed to get one of those five. That doesn't mean they didn't have Coleman as one of their guys they wanted...it's just they would have been equally good with anyone in that tier and they would have been just as pumped to draft anyone in that tier equally...Coleman definitely was their guy, as were several others in that range I'm sure. They definitely didn't settle...they got who they wanted, added a 3rd and went from the bottom of the 6th to the top of the fifth in the process...they killed it

Haha, wait me?! I think sports talk radio taking phone calls from the audience is super lazy and they do it largely to fill space...that and the reflexive immediate negative reaction people have and the use of petty nicknames is super annoying