HardyBoy

Basically...there is a bunch of stuff crammed down all our throats every day by corporations...why is this specific thing the thing that drives people wild? Then why do all the people that have an issue with this, as well as happy holidays and a few other issues, why do they all sound the same when they hear/see the thing that insights the reaction? It feels very very very indoctrinated. Like you can predict basically the same sequence of phrases and what will trigger them, it's weird.

Right, didn't you know that's not because people feel safer saying how they feel and be themselves, and instead is because people are being groomed and there is some something something agenda (/sarcasm) Funny how timeless Dylan is: Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is rapidly agin' Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'

Do you realize how much stuff is constantly crammed down people's throats in this society as a way to sell stuff or further political agendas? The better is why do you think this specific thing, out of all the things is making you have that sort of almost involuntary visceral reaction? I promise I'm not judging here, I think it has to do with people being exposed to different algorithms. The people saying, these things are being crammed down our throats are the ones also saying it's being done to further a political and cultural agenda, all while doing so by using the same words and responding in the exact same ways to the exact same triggers. All the while not being annoyed at stuff being crammed down people's throats, but because they view it as the wrong things...this dad's group I'm in on fb has people constantly posting anti pride month memes, while posting pro gun memes...it's totally cool to say merry Christmas to anyone you see, even though a vastly significant % of people don't celebrate that holiday (as someone who married into celebrating it, but didn't grow up celebrating it, it's really awkward and annoying and uncomfortable when people constantly tell you merry Christmas, like I don't celebrate that holiday, why the heck are you talking to me about your religion all the time, stop it, you're cramming it down my throat), but oh man, the outrage when someone wants to say happy holidays to ensure we're celebrating all holidays...the national anthem everywhere...like I'm patriotic, but stop cramming your form of patriotism down peoples' throats that maybe express their patriotism differently. Beer commercials, magazine covers, just so much stuff constantly crammed down our throats in this society, why is this thing such a big deal? Whose agenda does it serve for people to have a strong involuntary reaction to it...why when you step back can you so easily predict that reaction based on specific trigger words and terms and why are the responses always so uniform...like I fully acknowledge there are things that trigger me, but when I look at the ways I respond to those triggers and the words I use and the words other people use that are similarly triggered, they are different words and thoughts that are coming from actually thinking through the problem and building out thoughts, it's not just an immediate visceral response that is the same as everyone else that feels the same way. It's wild, and scary...not the thoughts themselves even, but the fact that so many people are instinctively acting in such a uniform fashion when there are thousands of examples of the same thing happening, but it's like they've been conditioned to respond in such an automatic fashion...Manchurian Candidate type stuff and I'm talking the Angela Lansbury version.

Also, look what happened with the rumors about Troy Aikman and Jeff Garcia, it was really wild. Outside the Lines article from 1999 about homophobia in the nfl: https://www.espn.com/otl/world/day2_part1.html ESPN the Magazine article from 2011 talking about how coaches intentionally use coded language in recruiting pitches to try and gain an advantage in recruiting high school players and families ("family oriented"): https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/news/story?page=Mag15unhealthyclimate

Also, my bad on the comment below my first one...I genuinely thought you were saying something different and I honestly wasn't commenting to you directly, just there are so many people who approach this type of conversation in bad faith, but you don't realize it and you spend time talking through it and then they finally tell you how they really feel and it's like oh crap, you weren't ever changing your mind on this Probably fair

JCC = Jewish Community Center Gotcha! Yeah, when you said you were looking for an all heterosexual league it made it sound (and perhaps better put, I interpreted it) like you were saying this type of league isn't necessary or more so even offensive because it excludes people. It's just 95% of the time when people say stuff like that it's what they mean and I jumped to a conclusion and glad I clarified, to the extent it matters even that I get clarification, lol. There are often pickup leagues or games that happen...I mean I've never lived really outside of a bigger city (Rochester, Boston, Ft Lauderdale, Raleigh), so can't say they are everywhere, but there might be some if you know where to find them?

Also, why are there police, firefighter, etc leagues? Can't imagine you would say that same comment in response to someone talking about one those types of leagues. I mean the answer is comments like this aren't in good faith and I shouldn't waste my time trying to use logic to try and show why that is the case

First, it's not a gay only league, anyone can play, obviously they would not tolerate homophobia from players. Second, you genuinely can't see the other perspective on why this might be necessary? Like you can't see a logical reason why this is something that is needed? Would you say the same thing about a JCC league (JCCs are largely a community thing and not really religious at all)? What about women only gyms? You really can't see any reason groups of people who have been historically discriminated against or are made to feel unsafe or discriminated against would band together to create an organization that allows them to participate in their hobbies and where they feel safe to do so without the people around them making them uncomfortable or feeling like they need to hide their true selves?

Oh that's cool, yeah just read that it's open to everyone

Dude, that's not an appropriate joke (assuming you're making one) Edit: assuming you're not making that specific joke, I think Modern Family tackled that question with the gay bowling league episode

You don't understand why a league would start for gay athletes in a sport that has a history of being extremely homophobic? Like you really can't understand the reasoning behind why something like this might unfortunately be necessary? Really?

I've heard of him!

Oh for sure, but if one had a great start and then stunk and then one had a rough start and then did awesome that's important to know. Think of Peyton Manning and RGIII...they might look reasonably similar if you look over their first 40 or so games since RGIII had such an amazing first year and Manning was rough.

Anyway to see their most recent 20 or so starts?

Got it, so the guarenteed amount can still only be max five years down the line, so if he signed a 5 year deal with two years still on his original deal, the entire remaining guarentee goes into the next five years or less (depending on how they structure) and then as the next season comes along there isn't any cap currently for that player held up by their guarentee because year six is now five years out so that's how they're able to restructure in situations where they aren't actually adding additional years to the deal. You're right, I think I was missing something foundational there, thanks!

Yes

That's what I'm asking...I know if you trade a player their guarenteed money is accelerated to that season and is kept on the trading teams books (like Diggs). My question is if that is the case if the contract is not technically active yet...like Allen's extension didn't kick in until he played out his 5th year option and maybe even his 4th year of his rookie deal, can't remember exactly when he signed.

Can he be traded before the contract kicks in? How does that work, do they still have to eat the dead cap if they trade a player before an extension kicks in or can that be traded and the guarentee goes to the other team like had signed him? My guess is since the money is still put in escrow by the team they would still he responsible for the guarenteed cap hit, but just curious.

Well said and just saw an opportunity for exploring some nuance and where it really gets interesting is a player like Dareus after he signed the contract...it's not like he just retired, he was still exposing himself to injury...I feel like a substance addiction almost makes it easier to justify or perhaps explain away the behavior, but they kinda Jerry Garcia'd their careers, and i don't mean that as a knock on Garcia, I'm a huge fan of his and it's a crazy nuanced super sad issue, but he didn't really die because of substances, but because he stopped giving a crap and ate himself to death (plus the substances). I think there were some deitifcation aspects that for sure contributed to Garcia's downfall and him being a hugely empathetic person and wanting to help people around him and not let them down by taking a break from touring, which his life depended on. Actually a lot of analogous things there with Jerry Garcia...poor dude just gave up eventually...super sad

Poyer almost drank himself to death while a member of the bills...I don't think addiction is a matter of character, certainly not in all cases and I'd argue not in most cases, but obviously there is a chicken and egg thing, but so much of it has to do with attachemnt and stuff that happened before you were even like 3 years old. You're dealing with emotions that both society has taught you that as a guy you are not allowed to have or something is wrong with you, and potentially an attachment style that prevents you from feeling safe in trusting other people to be able to express those feelings/not feel massive internal shame because of those feelings that you're not even consciously aware of. I'm not even talking about athletes, just regular people...those people turning to substances to help quiet those unconscious feelings and having that turn into an unintentionally destructive pattern of behavior where suddenly you're addicted to a substance, food, avoiding closeness with others, or just sitting on the couch and not being active/not taking care of your body. It can be insidious and the more you try and change it, the more it smashes into those toxic subconscious behavior patterns and it ensnareds you like one of those finger traps. Add to that the absolutely insane external pressure these guys are actually under and how people blame them for their lack of happiness and being blamed for losing someone a bet or fantasy. Anyway, I don't even think you said that addiction was a character issue directly, but the two words were close enough together in your post that I felt it was good to mention and that therapy is a really good thing and can be helpful for people and there are patterns of behavior that seem like they are so entirely unique to you, but then you realize the therapist has seen similar patterns over and over and over again and it's just a reasonable and understandable response to circumstances, but once you are aware it's a pattern you can think if that's really what you consciously would like to do and even if you can't stop yourself, you can at least start being mindful and taking small steps to make big changes. Lol, that was a lot of words! Also, I'm not saying we need to excuse bad behavior, just there is nuance and there is also a huge opportunity for a franchise to be able to understand that nuance and help people become the best versions of themselves both on and off the field, because that can be how you find some diamonds that others have thrown out, or maybe see that some of the sheen that people can see is actually fake and there are genuine concerns below the surface that are deep character concerns that maybe are so deep seeded they would destroy a locker room

That drive though can be such a negative thing when you need to give yourself patience from being injured...vulnerability, shame, disappointment, jealousy, etc...boys and men really don't have and aren't given the words to express these emotions and that leads to a huge epidemic of loneliness and isolation and many turn to substance abuse...I would guess a decent % on this board are dealing with similar things, but just amplify the pressure and expectations of being an absolutely elite top 0.1% athlete and then add on top of that being drafted in the top 5. I'd argue it's not typically a lack of mental toughness that brings people in sports down, but a lack of mental vulnerability...I'd probably also argue that being mentally tough means being able to be mentally vulnerable and mental toughness is based on being able to use all the tools in the emotional toolbox and not just the hammers that are happy or mad. Basically you don't get to the nfl unless you are insanely mentally tough...like could people be more tough sure, but I would expect any player in high level college or professional sports has pushed their body mentally more than the vast majority of people on the planet...the problem is when you fall, sometimes you need to sit there for a moment and feel those feelings and talk about them to get past them, before you get up and try and deal with them by rehabing to hard and ruining a career. I agree with a lot of what you wrote... I'm just taking mostly about the term mental fortitude and how that feels like you're saying he wasn't mentally tough enough, but I think maybe a better is mentally resilient and sometimes that means truly allowing oneself to experience and process all emotions.

Foot injuries suck... he had a monster season when he wasn't injured (that really looked like he was going to maintain and surpass that level year after year), but then rehurt his foot. Feel like I remember it being a situation where he tried playing through it and it made it much worse and impacted his career... I'm not going to judge anyone's mental toughness when you have all these expectations put on you that you are actually meeting and then you get hurt and have to rehab alone and the thing that has driven you every day since you were a kid is suddenly taken from you...I think he does so much better playing on the bills with this coaching staff...mental health didn't seem like a huge priority under Marrone and just how challenging it can be to play at an elite level and still feel like you aren't meeting expectations and then you get hurt and I've heard that in a lot of organizations, when you're injured your basically isolated and it's buffalo in the winter (I like winter weather, but I can't handle to western NY clouds in the winter, especially weeks with no sun and highs in the mid40s and just slush everywhere). Makes me think of James Hardy a bit to be honest. To answer your question though, no I don't think Sammy Watkins was a bust, because I don't think a career derailed by injuries can be considered a bust. Unfortunate for sure, though I do get the mental aspect of things...but like let's pretend Bill Walton doesn't heal from his initial foot injuries and doesn't have those two massive seasons before he reinjured his foot...would he be a bust? Was Greg Oden a bust? Maybe, Greg Oden had early career foot injuries as well, but it spun him out and he developed addictions and I'm not judging him, I can't imagine the pressure and to an extent the shame, but I don't know I don't think injuries can cause someone to be a bust (unless the people drafting the player know there are injury red flags, but even then it's a risk reward thing and I get saying a player who is injured needs to attack rehab, but at the same time, like the case I believe for Sammy Watkins and reading just now how Walton held out an entire season because he felt Portland was treating injuries in an unethical way, which makes me think he pushed too hard to come back too soon...sometimes over rehabbing an injury is a bad thing). Tldr, no i do not believe Sammy Watkins was a bust and until Steff Diggs joined the team I can't remember seeing another receiver with the suddenness and explosiveness and footwork to get open on their first step like those two did

Those early baseball teams kinda have a decently big asterisk, since the best collection of talent is based on relative to their competition and a huge part of the competition was prevented from playing in the league.

Haha, it sounds like you've fallen for the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" line enough times that now you're thinking...anything could possibly mean something, even when it actually means nothing! Also known as Post Stef Diggs Syndrome

His ceiling should be much higher than his rookie year in terms of his physical skill set... he should be in his physical prime right now...obviously if he puts up 850 and 10 tds that would be insanely huge, but if he puts himself in the position to get 850 yards, which means he figured out the offense and how to handle being schemed against and not letting the successes or failures of a season get him too high or low...and he becomes a key part of the offense that gets high value schemed up targets...I think it's fair to anticipate him being a far more physically developed and tactically nuanced player and I wouldn't be shocked if he did better than his rookie year, since his body is fully developed and he's in his prime now. I'm not saying I'm expecting that from him, I'm just saying for everyone saying his rookie year production would be amazing....I mean for sure it would be, but again if he positions himself to be that key of a contributor where his rookie year stats are in reach (which is a massive if), I think his ceiling would be higher than that due to him being in his prime.