HardyBoy

I don't want to speak for others eapecially that I'm debating, but I think that for the vast majority of people in this thread that sound like they are against the league, I am getting the sense that likely don't actually have an issue with there being a league. Also, I don't think you need to justify or defend why a league like that should exist. People arguing that point and not listening to the answer aren't going to change their mind and I think you did an excellent job explaining it earlier in the thread. Like you have your experience, people saying your first hand experience is wrong and that you're not thinking or feeling the things that you're feeling or have felt/worried about in your head, feels a bit gaslight, though I'm not getting the sense it's actually intentional, just might be a valid time for you to quote Stanely from the far superior US version on The Office and drop a "did I stutter?" Quick aside, when I lived in Fort Lauderdale, my wife and I actually lived in Wilton Manors for 7 years (annoying I feel the need to preface that with "my wife") and it is such a cool and amazing place and just seeing people who in a lot of situations might feel judged and marginalized being able to sit and just talk at a restaurant and hearing them fully and genuinely laugh. There actually was a flag football team that used to practice in a park I used to walk to in my neighborhood and they were pretty good and I'm assuming they were all or majority gay. Before I get to my point, I do think that my favorite misconception I've seen in this thread is about how people are joking that this league would be super popular with gay guys because all the athletes would be super in shape and classicaly attractive, and I don't think that's necessarily the case from my understanding...the hidden benefit of being a marginalized minority group in some ways is that societal norms haven't really been forced onto them, including unrealistic beauty standards...I think there is a significantly wider range of what attractive is and so many different ways to express oneself, which is so different from what it is like in the mainstream society, especially for girls...shoot, talking about grooming, we've be grooming girls for eating disorders since at least 1955. Alright, my main point...I think it might be interesting to talk about virtue signaling, DEI and the difference between fluff corporate bs where it's just like slogans on a helmet vs actual meaningful stuff that can come from people within corporations demanding change and working together to speak truth to power through employee resource groups that lead a lot of this stuff in actually meaningful ways.

Maybe, but I don't think one of the central plot points of Mean Girls (probably the key plot point tbh) was a girl starting a rumor that another girl was a lesbian was done at all by accident. I posted this earlier up thread, but feels fitting...I read this when it came out in the actual magazine back in 2011 and I haven't re-read it, but it obviously left enough of an impression that I searched it out intentionally when I was reading through this thread earlier: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/news/story?page=Mag15unhealthyclimate

I don't know if DEI is the same as greenwashing though...like I hear ya, but I was able to participate as much as I did in this thread today because I was off work forJuneteenth. Like sure you could say that might be because that allows them to put a blog post out how we're honoring the day and all that and do what many might argue is virtue signaling. However, I think the real value is not in that blog post, but showing people within the organization that their diverse perspectives are heard and more so helping share those with others. I had no idea what Juneteenth was until that Blackish episode a few years back, and it was cool learning that there was this really influential holiday I had no idea existed and it helped me understand the perspectives of others a bit better and kinda gave me and some coworkers the ability to have something to start a conversation over that perhaps would have been more tricky in the past. Greenwashing, like saying you're doing something positive for the environment, when that isn't actually the case. From what I've seen, DEI stuff based on objective research that I've glanced at (granted probably from sources that I trust to have journalistic integrity, but perhaps wouldn't share all the research, so there might be bias) shows significant positive outcomes from DEI stuff, and I'm not talking about transparent virtue signaling type stuff. The Bills doing this though, in my experience, which is based on working at a large legacy tech company, is there are actual people that are super passionate about getting this partnership to happen within the organization, they put a ton of effort into it, it's not just false lip service to virtue signal, but there are actual programs and events and trainings and outreach and town halls where people come into the organization and share their experiences and how this partnership is helping people and all that. Virtue signaling is annoying, but to say anyone doing anything good in an organization is doing it as a virtue signal, or perhaps where the intent of the action is to virtue signal (like greenwashing)...I think that's cynical

Omg, I genuinely bought a mattress on president's day this year! Haha, not by choice...and the day my youngest (4 years old) came into my room saying he didn't feel well and projectile vommed all over my pretty nice, not cheap, less than four year old mattress is when I learned the reason to always have a mattress protector on...did go from a queen to a king though

My dad grew up in the Soviet Union, came here and fell in love with the Bills as a way to assimilate and they were fun to watch in the early to mid 70s. Did you know that in the Soviet Union there were virtually no left handed people? Isn't that crazy, like basically nobody was left handed even though it's I believe about 10% of the population. Fun fact #2, my dad was left handed, but they believed left handed people were evil over there and different and non conforming and a threat to unity, so they forced him, like literally would hit his hand with a ruler if he used his left hand. Basically did conversation therapy on him until he was able to write right handed. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and how gay people have been treated. Then, if after my dad grew up, there had been loosening of the restrictions on him being himself, and suddenly felt comfortable saying he was left handed and that he was proud of being left handed and wanted to shout to everyone you tried to break me from being proud of who I am, but you couldn't and I'm going to shout it so everyone can hear it because you taught me who I am is evil, yet here is stand... Help me understand the difference? Btw, they had the same views on gay people in the soviet union, and still have the same views on gay people over in Russia, except they'll actually put you in jail for it or worse, where being left handed would get you ostracized

How about people stop shoving Christmas down my throat? It's super annoying, I celebrate it now because I married into it, but I didn't grow up celebrating it...how about people stop shoving their specific form of patriotism down my throat.. I'm plenty patriotic, but I don't choose to express it by conforming to some weird social norm that some people keep trying to cram down my throat...why is this specific thing bothering specific people? Especially whe the people complaining about this thing being the very people that are often most guilty of cramming the most stuff down people's throats?

Basically...there is a bunch of stuff crammed down all our throats every day by corporations...why is this specific thing the thing that drives people wild? Then why do all the people that have an issue with this, as well as happy holidays and a few other issues, why do they all sound the same when they hear/see the thing that insights the reaction? It feels very very very indoctrinated. Like you can predict basically the same sequence of phrases and what will trigger them, it's weird.

Right, didn't you know that's not because people feel safer saying how they feel and be themselves, and instead is because people are being groomed and there is some something something agenda (/sarcasm) Funny how timeless Dylan is: Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is rapidly agin' Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'

Do you realize how much stuff is constantly crammed down people's throats in this society as a way to sell stuff or further political agendas? The better is why do you think this specific thing, out of all the things is making you have that sort of almost involuntary visceral reaction? I promise I'm not judging here, I think it has to do with people being exposed to different algorithms. The people saying, these things are being crammed down our throats are the ones also saying it's being done to further a political and cultural agenda, all while doing so by using the same words and responding in the exact same ways to the exact same triggers. All the while not being annoyed at stuff being crammed down people's throats, but because they view it as the wrong things...this dad's group I'm in on fb has people constantly posting anti pride month memes, while posting pro gun memes...it's totally cool to say merry Christmas to anyone you see, even though a vastly significant % of people don't celebrate that holiday (as someone who married into celebrating it, but didn't grow up celebrating it, it's really awkward and annoying and uncomfortable when people constantly tell you merry Christmas, like I don't celebrate that holiday, why the heck are you talking to me about your religion all the time, stop it, you're cramming it down my throat), but oh man, the outrage when someone wants to say happy holidays to ensure we're celebrating all holidays...the national anthem everywhere...like I'm patriotic, but stop cramming your form of patriotism down peoples' throats that maybe express their patriotism differently. Beer commercials, magazine covers, just so much stuff constantly crammed down our throats in this society, why is this thing such a big deal? Whose agenda does it serve for people to have a strong involuntary reaction to it...why when you step back can you so easily predict that reaction based on specific trigger words and terms and why are the responses always so uniform...like I fully acknowledge there are things that trigger me, but when I look at the ways I respond to those triggers and the words I use and the words other people use that are similarly triggered, they are different words and thoughts that are coming from actually thinking through the problem and building out thoughts, it's not just an immediate visceral response that is the same as everyone else that feels the same way. It's wild, and scary...not the thoughts themselves even, but the fact that so many people are instinctively acting in such a uniform fashion when there are thousands of examples of the same thing happening, but it's like they've been conditioned to respond in such an automatic fashion...Manchurian Candidate type stuff and I'm talking the Angela Lansbury version.

Also, look what happened with the rumors about Troy Aikman and Jeff Garcia, it was really wild. Outside the Lines article from 1999 about homophobia in the nfl: https://www.espn.com/otl/world/day2_part1.html ESPN the Magazine article from 2011 talking about how coaches intentionally use coded language in recruiting pitches to try and gain an advantage in recruiting high school players and families ("family oriented"): https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/news/story?page=Mag15unhealthyclimate

Also, my bad on the comment below my first one...I genuinely thought you were saying something different and I honestly wasn't commenting to you directly, just there are so many people who approach this type of conversation in bad faith, but you don't realize it and you spend time talking through it and then they finally tell you how they really feel and it's like oh crap, you weren't ever changing your mind on this Probably fair

JCC = Jewish Community Center Gotcha! Yeah, when you said you were looking for an all heterosexual league it made it sound (and perhaps better put, I interpreted it) like you were saying this type of league isn't necessary or more so even offensive because it excludes people. It's just 95% of the time when people say stuff like that it's what they mean and I jumped to a conclusion and glad I clarified, to the extent it matters even that I get clarification, lol. There are often pickup leagues or games that happen...I mean I've never lived really outside of a bigger city (Rochester, Boston, Ft Lauderdale, Raleigh), so can't say they are everywhere, but there might be some if you know where to find them?

Also, why are there police, firefighter, etc leagues? Can't imagine you would say that same comment in response to someone talking about one those types of leagues. I mean the answer is comments like this aren't in good faith and I shouldn't waste my time trying to use logic to try and show why that is the case

First, it's not a gay only league, anyone can play, obviously they would not tolerate homophobia from players. Second, you genuinely can't see the other perspective on why this might be necessary? Like you can't see a logical reason why this is something that is needed? Would you say the same thing about a JCC league (JCCs are largely a community thing and not really religious at all)? What about women only gyms? You really can't see any reason groups of people who have been historically discriminated against or are made to feel unsafe or discriminated against would band together to create an organization that allows them to participate in their hobbies and where they feel safe to do so without the people around them making them uncomfortable or feeling like they need to hide their true selves?

Oh that's cool, yeah just read that it's open to everyone

Dude, that's not an appropriate joke (assuming you're making one) Edit: assuming you're not making that specific joke, I think Modern Family tackled that question with the gay bowling league episode

You don't understand why a league would start for gay athletes in a sport that has a history of being extremely homophobic? Like you really can't understand the reasoning behind why something like this might unfortunately be necessary? Really?

I've heard of him!

Oh for sure, but if one had a great start and then stunk and then one had a rough start and then did awesome that's important to know. Think of Peyton Manning and RGIII...they might look reasonably similar if you look over their first 40 or so games since RGIII had such an amazing first year and Manning was rough.

Anyway to see their most recent 20 or so starts?

Got it, so the guarenteed amount can still only be max five years down the line, so if he signed a 5 year deal with two years still on his original deal, the entire remaining guarentee goes into the next five years or less (depending on how they structure) and then as the next season comes along there isn't any cap currently for that player held up by their guarentee because year six is now five years out so that's how they're able to restructure in situations where they aren't actually adding additional years to the deal. You're right, I think I was missing something foundational there, thanks!

Yes

That's what I'm asking...I know if you trade a player their guarenteed money is accelerated to that season and is kept on the trading teams books (like Diggs). My question is if that is the case if the contract is not technically active yet...like Allen's extension didn't kick in until he played out his 5th year option and maybe even his 4th year of his rookie deal, can't remember exactly when he signed.

Can he be traded before the contract kicks in? How does that work, do they still have to eat the dead cap if they trade a player before an extension kicks in or can that be traded and the guarentee goes to the other team like had signed him? My guess is since the money is still put in escrow by the team they would still he responsible for the guarenteed cap hit, but just curious.

Well said and just saw an opportunity for exploring some nuance and where it really gets interesting is a player like Dareus after he signed the contract...it's not like he just retired, he was still exposing himself to injury...I feel like a substance addiction almost makes it easier to justify or perhaps explain away the behavior, but they kinda Jerry Garcia'd their careers, and i don't mean that as a knock on Garcia, I'm a huge fan of his and it's a crazy nuanced super sad issue, but he didn't really die because of substances, but because he stopped giving a crap and ate himself to death (plus the substances). I think there were some deitifcation aspects that for sure contributed to Garcia's downfall and him being a hugely empathetic person and wanting to help people around him and not let them down by taking a break from touring, which his life depended on. Actually a lot of analogous things there with Jerry Garcia...poor dude just gave up eventually...super sad