John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The fact is that our defense was very good on 3rd down last year. You can't debate that with anything other than non-specific anecdotal evidence. I can present scout's opinions, and stats that show that Kelsay does not "suck. You can keep bitching, but I don't know what world you live in where you expect our LDE to rack up the sacks. Mathis had 12 in Indy at LDE but nice try. Plus it's not just about sacks, he never puts pressure on the QB either. You act like he is a vacuum against the run. Dude, this is pointless because you are obviously related to him or you are Celino or Barnes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Rotating players and nickel/dime packages are completely different. Kelsey gets paid at the top of his position and you think it's okay if he is a two down player? What happenes if they throw on 2nd? Maybe he can just play on 1st down. Ridiculous. For the record, I don't have an opinion either way on Kelsay. It is not my job to examine the nuances of the game and evaluate his game to that level. I do not see the players day in and day out. I do not know how they lead in the locker room. I do not know what intangibles they give to the team. The only thing I know is what I see on gameday on the TV. I do have an opinion on you jumping all over another person's post that seemed pretty straight forward and sensible. The point of the original post that you jumped on was that Kelsay is an average DE that plays better against the run than against the pass. Any liability that he is against the pass will be mitigated by Maybin taking his spot on obvious passing downs. Thats it. Seems fair enough to me. BobDVA, correct me if I am wrong on this. Now, I don't know how Kelsay's current salary compares with other starting LDEs. Since you apparently do know, can you please provide that for me? Otherwise, yes I am perfectly fine with Kelsay playing 2 downs and Maybin playing third. You should too. Its not like you are paying his salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Mathis had 12 in Indy at LDE but nice try. Plus it's not just about sacks, he never puts pressure on the QB either. You act like he is a vacuum against the run. Dude, this is pointless because you are obviously related to him or you are Celino or Barnes! So you are right and the NFL scouts are wrong? Who is Mathis' RDE again? Yeah, the last time Kelsay had a producer on the right side, he had 5.5 sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Isnt Fred Jackson banged up a little too? we are rolling with a tandem of Jackson and Omon? But we have 29 DBs and receivers. we needed the room for the DBs we already maxed out at 8 OL good thing 2 or them are already hurt and one is worse than Fowler but he's all we have to backup C. this is some stellar roster management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 For the record, I don't have an opinion either way on Kelsay. It is not my job to examine the nuances of the game and evaluate his game to that level. I do not see the players day in and day out. I do not know how they lead in the locker room. I do not know what intangibles they give to the team. The only thing I know is what I see on gameday on the TV. I do have an opinion on you jumping all over another person's post that seemed pretty straight forward and sensible. The point of the original post that you jumped on was that Kelsay is an average DE that plays better against the run than against the pass. Any liability that he is against the pass will be mitigated by Maybin taking his spot on obvious passing downs. Thats it. Seems fair enough to me. BobDVA, correct me if I am wrong on this. Now, I don't know how Kelsay's current salary compares with other starting LDEs. Since you apparently do know, can you please provide that for me? Otherwise, yes I am perfectly fine with Kelsay playing 2 downs and Maybin playing third. You should too. Its not like you are paying his salary. Kelsay's contract averages 6 million a year. Might point is that Cover 2 DE's are not supposed to be one dementional DE's 2 down players. They are supposed to get into the backfield and cause problems on every play. Watch a Colts, Minny or Chicago game. Their DE's are everywhere. Now someone thinks it's a good idea to bring him out on 3rd downs? That would mean he is so scary good against the run that he's justified in making 6 mil a year playing 25 plays a game? He sucks and players like him are the exact reason why this team is a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 we needed the room for the DBs we already maxed out at 8 OL good thing 2 or them are already hurt and one is worse than Fowler but he's all we have to backup C. this is some stellar roster management speaking of Fowler..he was cut today as well...guess no-one really likes him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 link Vets waived OL Chris Chambers, who had served as the team’s swing tackle the past two seasons was also among the veterans released with Rhodes. The emergence of second-year tackle Demetrius Bell helped to make the veteran lineman expendable. John DiGiorgio, who was already on injured reserve and did not help in reducing the active roster numbers was waived/failed physical. Cuts In addition to Chambers and Rhodes, Buffalo waived 18 other players. They are listed below. QB Matt Baker LB Alvin Bowen DE Copeland Bryan TE Tyson DeVree DE Ataefiok Etukeren G Christian Gaddis RB Bruce Hall DB Cary Harris WR C.J. Hawthorne OT Nick Hennessey WR Felton Huggins DT Derrick Jones DT Corey Mace LB Ryan Manalac TE Jonathan Stupar OL Brandon Rodd, who suffered a sprained knee in the preseason finale against the Lions Thursday night was waived/injured getting the roster to the required 53. stupid to wave stupar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The Chris Kelsay who the scouts laud the high motor and intensity because he's the one who chases down the runner when a #90 falls for a misdirection play, or #90 is 10 yds in the backfield on a draw or a screen pass? We need more guys like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Kelsay's contract averages 6 million a year. Might point is that Cover 2 DE's are not supposed to be one dementional DE's 2 down players. They are supposed to get into the backfield and cause problems on every play. Watch a Colts, Minny or Chicago game. Their DE's are everywhere. Now someone thinks it's a good idea to bring him out on 3rd downs? That would mean he is so scary good against the run that he's justified in making 6 mil a year playing 25 plays a game? He sucks and players like him are the exact reason why this team is a mess. kelsay is laughing alllllllll the waaay to da bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 So you are right and the NFL scouts are wrong? Who is Mathis' RDE again? Yeah, the last time Kelsay had a producer on the right side, he had 5.5 sacks. Who are these NFL scouts that you are quoting? Is Todd Mcshay always right? And YEAH, they are wrong, they called Kelsay a "solid" pass rusher. Dude has 17 sacks in 7 years! That just over two a year!! If thats "solid" then I'm an "average" pass rusher because he only has 2 more sacks than me a year! Figs, Kelsay is the poster boy for why the Bills suck....and Celino and Barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The Chris Kelsay who the scouts laud the high motor and intensity because he's the one who chases down the runner when a #90 falls for a misdirection play, or #90 is 10 yds in the backfield on a draw or a screen pass? We need more guys like that. I am always amazed at how many times I watch him run himself out of plays. He is the King of creating lanes on a counter play. Most of the time the RT doesn't even shove by because he is so far upfield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 I am always amazed at how many times I watch him run himself out of plays. He is the King of creating lanes on a counter play. Most of the time the RT doesn't even shove by because he is so far upfield! Who died and made you an NFL scout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Who died and made you an NFL scout? I'm not, I was quoting the The Lackawanna Pro Scouts Guide. I also have 20/20 vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 So you are right and the NFL scouts are wrong? Who is Mathis' RDE again? Yeah, the last time Kelsay had a producer on the right side, he had 5.5 sacks. Could you perhaps pass out this mysterious "game film" that shows chris kelsay being anything but below average, and that shows the Bills defense actually stopping 3rd downs? As i recall, the defense was largely ineffective at stopping 3rd downs, especially 3rd and long. Classic Jauron. 3rd and 10, line up the DBs 15 yards off the LOS and give up a 12 yard catch. And this was in large part because kelsay ran 16 yard upfield past the QB, or was blown off the ball, or bit on a play fake. The guy hasn't sniffed a QB since he signed his bloated contract. Kelsay blows, and the team would be better letting a player like Bryan develop. But no, we waste a roster spot on jauron's BFF because he's a vet, and jauron goes with seniority over talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I'm sure he's ticketed for the Practice Squad. A little surprised by Mace and Bryan cuts. PTR I am more surprised that Mace and Bryan keep trying to make it to Bills rather than trying to catch on to another team. 31 teams should be asking them to play for them according to all of the future front office talent evaluators Matt Millens on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 No real shockers... Did anyone else think that Copeland Bryan was looking good in preseason? Obviously I was wrong. I'll assume the coaches know more than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1 They weren't bad in terms of 3rd down percentage last year. But, they also didn't force as many 3rd downs as most of the NFL -- only 4 teams forced fewer 3rd down situations. <sigh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 So we wasted a 6th round pick this year on Cary Harris, huh!? FO = joke. Comments like THIS are a joke. Look around the league, a-wipe. It's COMMONPLACE for round 5-7 players to not make a roster; typically a team tries to sneak them on the PS. Guess what team has had the most draft picks NOT make their team in recent years...? The Patriots. And players as high as 3rd rounders - most recently QB McConnell. It happens. You don't bash a front office because your 6th round pick didn't make your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I'm not, I was quoting the The Lackawanna Pro Scouts Guide. I also have 20/20 vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Did anyone else think that Copeland Bryan was looking good in preseason? Obviously I was wrong. I'll assume the coaches know more than I do. Just and FYI, Anthony Hargrove made the Saints roster...... • The Saints releasing veteran defensive end Paul Spicer shouldn't be a surprise. The 10-year veteran looked slow during camp and Anthony Hargove clearly outplayed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Kelsay sucks at $5 Million a year, for that matter he sucks if he were paid $4 Million or even $3 Million a year. Does his salary matter? Are you paying it? If we cut him, that money would go into RW's pocket. So who would play better than Kelsay at a lower cost? Nobody. Give it up everyone, Kelsay is nowhere near as bad as everyone's making him out to be around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Fellas, we're talking about Copeland F-cking Bryan here. Thats the point. He is better than one of our starting DEs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Copeland Bryan and Corey Mace both deserved to stay, and either Kelsay, Denney, or Schobust should be gone. I mean WTF? And STUPAR??? How, when we are already hurting for decent TEs do we get rid of the ONE who actually did something this preseason? I hop on Jauron's wagon for one day, and he IMMEDIATELY does three things that make me see how wrong I was to do it. I !@#$ing hate this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Put it this way... If they would have cut Ellis Lankster, I would not watch any games this year at all. At least they got one decision right. That dude has to be on the roster. He is a future starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhg Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 So we wasted a 6th round pick this year on Cary Harris, huh!? FO = joke. BFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Copeland Bryan and Corey Mace both deserved to stay, and either Kelsay, Denney, or Schobust should be gone. I mean WTF? And STUPAR??? How, when we are already hurting for decent TEs do we get rid of the ONE who actually did something this preseason? I hop on Jauron's wagon for one day, and he IMMEDIATELY does three things that make me see how wrong I was to do it. I !@#$ing hate this guy. I would have kept Mace, Bryan and Derek Jones over Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel- If you keep Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel you are committed to either the same suck Dline we had last year or paying backups more than starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 So is that 11 DBs on the roster? McGee, McKelvin, Corner, Youboty, Florence, Lankster Lil Donte, Scott, Byrd, Wilson, Wendling Jauron is probably watching the waiver wires for more as we type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1 They weren't bad in terms of 3rd down percentage last year. But, they also didn't force as many 3rd downs as most of the NFL -- only 4 teams forced fewer 3rd down situations. <sigh> Oh don't say that. You're trying to paint the whole picture as opposed to one aspect that someone wants to cling to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Jauron is probably watching the waiver wires for more as we type. Oh so now you are criticizing Jauron for trying to be prepared?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I would have kept Mace, Bryan and Derek Jones over Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel- If you keep Kelsay, Denney, and Schobel you are committed to either the same suck Dline we had last year or paying backups more than starters. You do realize that Schobel didn't actually play most of last year due to an injury, right? And you do realize that he was averaging 4 tackles a game before he got hurt, right? And you do realize we were undefeated until he got hurt, right? If Schobel comes back and plays like he used to, our line will be MUCH improved over last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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