The Definition of Insanity……

[34-78-83]

Lots of non-factual emotionally based rants, mixed in with a few fair points PTP. meh

Cya!

[Rico]

A (very upset) fan delivers a witty, cutting (if a bit over the top) bit of opinion and the result is predictable--the less tolerant dwellers start freaking, jumping about like the chimps in 2001-A Space Odyssey.

The high priests of WhoisarealBillsfan react as though he has crapped in their Holy Communion wafer bowl--which he has I guess.

 

Yes, by all means, a Bills fan site has absolutely no room for such bad men and their heresy.

 

Please reconsider, Pipe (the leaving part--not your post!).

[murra]

My only question is this:

 

If you're so smart, how come you watched this pre-season game? Surely all of your bullet points could have been drawn from draft day or mini-camp?

 

Edit:

 

The rant itself was actually quite well done, bravo.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Did anybody even respond to his football related points? Didn't think so.

[K-9]

A extremely predictable cadre of puffed-up, highly self-righteous autocrats presumes to ram rod their view of Bills football down everybody else's throats, and stifle any divergent views.

 

Maybe they can...maybe they cannot.

 

BTW, In 1921, Hitler announced, "The National Socialist Movement (better known as the Nazis) will in the future ruthlessly prevent - if necessary by force - all meetings or lectures that are likely to distract the minds of our fellow countrymen." [Heiden, Konrad, Der Fuehrer (1944) Boston, p.36].

 

Adolf personally lead his buddies in an attack (1921) that broke up an address by a Bavarian Federalist (an opposition political party), and had the guy beat up. The future Fuehrer served a month in jail for the assault. He told the arresting Police, "It's alright. We got what we wanted. Ballerstedt (the beating victim) did not speak." ibid

 

I never liked Ernst Rhoem, and I don't like these guys either.

 

Another thing you have in common with Hitler, then. Adolf didn't like him much either. Unless you count getting thrown in jail and summarily executed as a sign of liking someone.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ramius]

Once again - the truth, plainly evident and colorfully painted for everyone. Thank you. In the end, as you so eliquently outline, the team is simply not any better than it has been since Jouron has been here.

 

If this is truly your last post, let me be the first to salute your visage and insights - you will be missed greatly. I will try my best to carry on with honest commentary hoping one day the organization proves me wrong and makes a return to the post season.

 

Lets see. PTP logs in, posts. It then logs out and logs in under its alternate name, Kiper's Hair. (check the threads throughout the years, these 2 always pop up giving each other reach-arounds. Now we'll just sit here and wait until it logs in again under its third alias, HenryFumbles.

[DrFishfinder]

Outstanding! Of course, if you had a pair of balls, you'd go ahead and terminate it yourself.

 

This could be a very good day for TSW.

 

Who's next? Let's try to get 3 more losers to voluntarily throw in the towel here, so they can never sully our fine community, again.

 

I notice Skooby hasn't been here for a while...it's been a real breath of fresh air. Can we call him #2 on this list?

Let's make it 4 quitters.....

 

That's how many players have quit the Dolphins so far this season.

[DrFishfinder]

please.....Please.....PLEASE......PLEASE DON'T GO!!!!

 

oops.....never mind.....I had you confused with somebody else....zzzzZZZZzzzzzz

[K-9]

Lets see. PTP logs in, posts. It then logs out and logs in under its alternate name, Kiper's Hair. (check the threads throughout the years, these 2 always pop up giving each other reach-arounds. Now we'll just sit here and wait until it logs in again under its third alias, HenryFumbles.

 

You've got to be kidding me. Please tell me you're kidding. If not, it's very pathetic. It's like our billistic friend who likes to answer his own posts by making it look like the poster he's arguing with originated a post to which he then responds. It's pitiful. Not to mention dishonest and all that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BUFFALOTONE]

Please. Pipe's post begs for that kind of response.

 

Dont disagree, but cmon this place was duueeee for a meltdown!

[The Senator]

A (very upset) fan delivers a witty, cutting (if a bit over the top) bit of opinion and the result is predictable--the less tolerant dwellers start freaking, jumping about like the chimps in 2001-A Space Odyssey.

 

The high priests of WhoisarealBillsfan react as though he has crapped in their Holy Communion wafer bowl--which he has I guess.

 

Yes, by all means, a Bills fan site has absolutely no room for such bad men and their heresy.

 

Please reconsider, Pipe (the leaving part--not your post!).

Hey look - it's the racist...

 

Mr. WEO

 

and all his...

 

P-Town Pals

 

Hey WEO - what happened to that thread about Lynch the cheerleader? I can't seem to find it anymore

[The Senator]

Outstanding! Of course, if you had a pair of balls, you'd go ahead and terminate it yourself.

 

This could be a very good day for TSW.

 

Who's next? Let's try to get 3 more losers to voluntarily throw in the towel here, so they can never sully our fine community, again.

 

I notice Skooby hasn't been here for a while...it's been a real breath of fresh air. Can we call him #2 on this list?

SKOOOOOOOBY's been gone a while now - hope I had something to do with it.

 

For the next 3, I nominate 4th and Dumb, LukeWarmPisswater, and

 

Mr. WEO

[thebandit27]

There's nothing, absolutely nothing worse than the "I'm done" crowd and their "this is my last post" garbage.

 

Dean is absolutely right, if you're done, delete your own membership and quit whining about it. The only reason to even post something on a message board is to get others to read it. Does the OP honestly think that we care if he's done with the team, or is it simply that he wants someone to talk him out of leaving?

 

Either way, I say good riddance. For all of you out there, here's the message that some folks (you know who you are) don't seem to comprehend: if you hate the team, go away. What's the use in trumpeting your hatred on a fan board? Do you want other fans to hate the team too? Because I think it's plain to see that's not going to happen.

[thebandit27]

SKOOOOOOOBY's been gone a while now - hope I had something to do with it.

 

For the next 3, I nominate 4th and Dumb, LukeWarmPisswater, and

 

Mr. WEO

 

You're welcome for the nicknames, by the way.

 

[Magox]

There's nothing, absolutely nothing worse than the "I'm done" crowd and their "this is my last post" garbage.

 

Dean is absolutely right, if you're done, delete your own membership and quit whining about it. The only reason to even post something on a message board is to get others to read it. Does the OP honestly think that we care if he's done with the team, or is it simply that he wants someone to talk him out of leaving?

 

Either way, I say good riddance. For all of you out there, here's the message that some folks (you know who you are) don't seem to comprehend: if you hate the team, go away. What's the use in trumpeting your hatred on a fan board? Do you want other fans to hate the team too? Because I think it's plain to see that's not going to happen.

I hate negativity as much as the next guy, I hate all people who hate negativity, i just freaking hate it! Hate sucks and people who have hatred suck. I hate it!!!

 

However, his rant was a good one, well thought out, and deserves some kudos for the eloquence in that it was provided to us. I definitely got a laugh out of it, and for that, I say thank you!

 

now I say good riddance you motherfu#Ker!!

[The Senator]

You're welcome for the nicknames, by the way.

 

Oh I gave you full credit for them in a much earlier thread - but thanks again, and good job!

 

(Hope you don't mind that I liked them so much, I keep using them myself )

[thebandit27]

I hate negativity as much as the next guy, I hate all people who hate negativity, i just freaking hate it! Hate sucks and people who have hatred suck. I hate it!!!

 

However, his rant was a good one, well thought out, and deserves some kudos for the eloquence in that it was provided to us. I definitely got a laugh out of it, and for that, I say thank you!

 

now I say good riddance you motherfu#Ker!!

 

Acutally Magox I was fine with the rant until the I'm done crap comes out...that always irks me. If you're done just go away, we'll all be grateful.

[Mr. WEO]

Hey look - it's the racist...

 

Mr. WEO

 

and all his...

 

P-Town Pals

 

Hey WEO - what happened to that thread about Lynch the cheerleader? I can't seem to find it anymore

Looks like the administrator took mercy on you and deleted it. Or maybe he got tired of watching someone shoot fish in a barrel.

 

Nice to see you're back and have resumed abusing yourself in public.

[Billistic]

if you hate the team, go away. What's the use in trumpeting your hatred on a fan board? Do you want other fans to hate the team too? Because I think it's plain to see that's not going to happen.

 

There may be a subtle, yet perceptible difference between hating a team and hating how a team is being mismanaged and coached.

 

The "love it, or leave it" crowd seems never to take their blinders off.

 

More amusing than anything else.

[The Senator]

Looks like the administrator took mercy on you and deleted it. Or maybe he got tired of watching someone shoot fish in a barrel.

 

Nice to see you're back and have resumed abusing yourself in public.

Nice to see you too, Dame Edna...

 

[stuckincincy]

SKOOOOOOOBY's been gone a while now - hope I had something to do with it.

 

For the next 3, I nominate 4th and Dumb, LukeWarmPisswater, and

 

Mr. WEO

 

I didn't take offense at SKOOBY's postings. I suppose some were flaky, but this the internet and flaky things are pretty much the norm.

 

Yes, he was a bit rambunctious, but I can't recall the fellow ever sticking a snotty knife into anyone. Not like you and I have been known to do. "Here and there - now and then - to this one and that one." Find the source of that quote.

[The Senator]

I didn't take offense at SKOOBY's postings. I suppose some were flaky, but this the internet and flaky things are pretty much the norm.

 

Yes, he was a bit rambunctious, but I can't recall the fellow ever sticking a snotty knife into anyone. Not like you and I have been known to do. "Here and there - now and then - to this one and that one." Find the source of that quote.

Then you missed his most derisive, snottiest, condescending post and product of his Walter-Mitty-like imagination - the one totally denigrating average Buffalonians and WNYers with wild boasts of his own fictitious net worth and claims of a BMW 'worth more than most of your homes', or something of similar effect - I've had the moron in my crosshairs ever since.

[stuckincincy]

Then you missed his most derisive, snottiest, condescending post and product of his Walter-Mitty-like imagination - the one totally denigrating average Buffalonians and WNYers with wild boasts of his own fictitious net worth and claims of a BMW 'worth more than most of your homes', or something of similar effect - I've had the moron in my crosshairs ever since.

 

Was that early on in his career here?

 

Don't go and pick a fight with me - I'm just asking.

[Kipers Hair]

Lets see. PTP logs in, posts. It then logs out and logs in under its alternate name, Kiper's Hair. (check the threads throughout the years, these 2 always pop up giving each other reach-arounds. Now we'll just sit here and wait until it logs in again under its third alias, HenryFumbles.

That's rich. While I know P-T-P, we are some 3000 miles apart I think. Anyway - I will be the first to admit - I watch for his posts - at least the one's he starts as I find them informative, well written and above all entertaining. I believe your site admins can verify - the IP addresses should be worlds apart. As to Henry Fumbles - that is me nimrod - since he is no longer a Bill, I find it irrelevent that he cannot hold on to the ball.... By the way, I am not the Red Dragon, nor is he p-t-p, but I do watch for his posts as well - another well written and honest person I have come to enjoy posts from....

[Lori]

That's rich. While I know P-T-P, we are some 3000 miles apart I think. Anyway - I will be the first to admit - I watch for his posts - at least the one's he starts as I find them informative, well written and above all entertaining. I believe your site admins can verify - the IP addresses should be worlds apart. As to Henry Fumbles - that is me nimrod - since he is no longer a Bill, I find it irrelevent that he cannot hold on to the ball.... By the way, I am not the Red Dragon, nor is he p-t-p, but I do watch for his posts as well - another well written and honest person I have come to enjoy posts from....

We can, and do. Barking up the wrong tree there, Ramius.

[The Senator]

Was that early on in his career here?

 

Don't go and pick a fight with me - I'm just asking.

No fight - don't know how early on in his posting but yes, it was his last chance to make a first impression.

[The Dean]

Hey, don't go gettin' all racist like that, Deano. You've been warned and the media alerted.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Cracker!

[K-9]

Cracker!

 

Honkey, honkey!

 

With all due credit to the GREAT Richard Pryor.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mr. WEO]

Nice to see you too, Dame Edna...

 

Yes, the pats cheated. You can come out from your room now.

 

Maybe you will be inspired to add something to this site other than your junior high school homophobic ranting and lame comebacks.

 

Even a guy with your level of function must be getting tired of typing in the same response over and over, no?

 

Nahh--guess not.

 

Keep posting with pride.

[Heitz]

No fight - don't know how early on in his posting but yes, it was his last chance to make a first impression.

Wasn't it *this* year? Seems like he hasn't been here for super long...

 

He's off to terrorize the bb.com board now; makes you wonder who will step into the "ICE" roll next!

[DazedandConfused]

is repeating the same actions over and over again

 

 

.

 

Amidst this barrage there actually are a number of points which I think there may be profit in discussing the football:

 

1. Modrak has actually demonstrated to me a pretty good ability to evaluate individuals, but from the top down (starting with Ralph) the Bills have shown an inability to build a successful team. On need only look at the last few draft selections were second day picks who should have not even turned out to be adequate players have turned out to be mediocre but passable contributing talents 5th rounder Williams is the archetype example.

 

Where the evaluation has not been adequate has been in an inability to get an earthbreaking leader from any draft or through trade. Its disappointing that the Bills have not found the next Brice Smith, Jim Kelly, or Thurman in the draft or thru trade, but is anyone in the world surprised by this?

 

I do not think so.

 

The Bills have shown no ability to make a once or twice in a decade choice for the last decade or so. Regrettable, but hardly the grounds to declare the entire crew or DJ horribly bad. They are simply intensely medicore.

 

The attack on McKelvin seems actually pretty nuts. My expectation is that a player drafted in the first round stands in reality a little more than a 50/50 chance of even being a starter after his first full season. The conventional wisdom that a first rounder should be a starter his first year is certainly doable and a clear wish. Here in the real world though it tends to break a little more than half of first rounders are actually starters by the end of the their first year (and the heavy bias is for top 10 picks with them being elite players chosen by bad teams as being the lead factors.

 

McKelvin actually looks like a pretty good choice when one looks at objective criteria. he clearly is a proven contributor due to his demonstrated abilities as a return guy. And actually, due in strong part to the Bills being weak in CB elite talent

(Clements flew the coop to a beyond market value contract and starter Greer also FA[ed his way out of town, McKelvin is also likely to meet the mark of being a starter in his second year.

 

Your declaration of him as bust as a starting CB seems pretty outlandish if you base this on one pre-season game and totally want to ignore his return game. One place the conventional wisdom is right is that a player needs at least 3 full seasons before a credible bust accusation. McKelvin is far from a bust by any reasonable objective measures. Agreed he is not a top 10 talent but why is this a surprise as he was not drafted in the top 10.

 

As far as the Bills other recent first round picks

 

McKelvin- too early to tell but so far so good as he clearly contributes on ST and actually will likely start in 09 though this is by default as is the case with most mediocre teams

Lynch- made Pro Bowl as an alternate in his second year- schitzy personality problems are the major reasonable indictment of him as a player. Not Thurman yet but after only two years one has to acknowledge two pretty solid on field years along with the outside the lines idiocy.

Whitner- a reach for an S at #8, but given that he has performed better than the safety taken at #7 and the clear Bills needs at SS given their overarching mismangement I think he did not have the breakout year the storybooks would have wanted last year but its hard to mark this down as a bad tactical evaluation it is simply failed strategy which starts at the top and wends an awful course through Brandon and TD before one can lay fault on Modrak or DJ.

McCargo- failed pick, but a recognition of failure here must be accompanied with a recognition of a good pick in rounf 5 finding a medicore talent to replace the McCargo failure

2006- No first round pick though it was traded away for JP, Here the failing is equally or more largely IMHO bad player development coaching rather than bad evaluation in getting Losman. If not Losman who would you have picked to be our next starter at QB?

 

The bottomline is that Modrak has not produced a winner here in Buffalo, but I think it goes a bit beyond reality to lay the record at his rather than at Ralph's door.

 

2. The switch to Hamgartner to find a new savior at C looks like a longshot to me as well, but I think there are way too many changes going on with two rookie guards and non-full year starters at best in the two tackle slots (at best since it was actually youngster Bell rather than out of place vetersn Butler at the RT slot.

 

Yet, given all the changes it still is way to early from one game to declare this try a failure though I doubt it will ever be the answer to all our issues. The comparison to Fowler is interesting if only that the complaint about Fowler (as said in a post above at least get the name right) was that he was a bit light and here is Hamgartner even lighter.

 

The proof in the pudding will be seen over multiple games in whether the Bills can get any positive push on short yardage with an even lighter Center and if they do it will likely be because Hamgartner proves himself to be a refuse to lose leader who gets the most out of Walker and Butler/Bell and leads Woods/LeVitre to be the right kind of player. i doubt this will work but actually have more faith in Woods being a quick study at C than Hamgartner answering all fears and questions.

 

3. I for one do not see us profiting from adopting a BB approach with out BB himself there to lead and cheat his way to glory. If the Pats pick-up fits into their team its a good one. If he does not fit into the way they operate he may be a very good player but it would be a bad pick-up. Likewise with the Bills, just because a player performs well elsewhere does not necessarily mean he would be a good get for us.

 

4. Again it is way too early to declare Schobel toast. In fact coming off a season ending injury last year I actually would demand that he go slow and take it easy in his first exhibition game back. Unfortunately we need to see how he performs in the real game before making a sane judgment.

 

5. Evans has not demonstrated the productivity yet to merit being treated as definite Pro Bowl talent. Yet, it seems willfully ignorant to me to deny his speed (which he has) and also deny that he has in fact shown a little bit of a good nose for the ball. He needs to breakout at some point soon if he really is that good, but it strikes me as fairly foolish if the Bills media and fan fall into this as a either TO is great OR Evans is great. The opportunity here is that if both make each other more productive players. I think it is pretty clear that part of Evans problem last year was that the #2 WR be it Reed, Hardy, or the old version of PP offered little threat, The thing most impressive about Evans numbers last year was the he pulled them off facing dts and without the opposing D being distracted at all. Likewise TO, he pulled off what he did last year with the Boys having Witten at TE as the most credible alternative threat so TO produced what he produced without the Boys having an effective #2/ Now their old #2 is their #1 and we will see how they do.

 

Unless Evans and TO are teammates they are both screwed.

 

6. I also think the Peters trade was simply a sign of poor player realtionship development and management by this team. Even if you argue that Peters was always a putz then this is an indictment of the team for going out of their way to attract as a UDFA a putz.

 

Also as far as you as a poster. You do raise a number of interesting issues, but as far as your commentary about these interesting issues, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

Good bye and good riddance.

[cobruhhh]

this awesome.

 

waiting for the mass-suicide...

[Billistic]

Amidst this barrage there actually are a number of points which I think there may be profit in discussing the football:

 

1. Modrak has actually demonstrated to me a pretty good ability to evaluate individuals, but from the top down (starting with Ralph) the Bills have shown an inability to build a successful team. On need only look at the last few draft selections were second day picks who should have not even turned out to be adequate players have turned out to be mediocre but passable contributing talents 5th rounder Williams is the archetype example.

 

Where the evaluation has not been adequate has been in an inability to get an earthbreaking leader from any draft or through trade. Its disappointing that the Bills have not found the next Brice Smith, Jim Kelly, or Thurman in the draft or thru trade, but is anyone in the world surprised by this?

 

I do not think so.

 

The Bills have shown no ability to make a once or twice in a decade choice for the last decade or so. Regrettable, but hardly the grounds to declare the entire crew or DJ horribly bad. They are simply intensely medicore.

 

The attack on McKelvin seems actually pretty nuts. My expectation is that a player drafted in the first round stands in reality a little more than a 50/50 chance of even being a starter after his first full season. The conventional wisdom that a first rounder should be a starter his first year is certainly doable and a clear wish. Here in the real world though it tends to break a little more than half of first rounders are actually starters by the end of the their first year (and the heavy bias is for top 10 picks with them being elite players chosen by bad teams as being the lead factors.

 

McKelvin actually looks like a pretty good choice when one looks at objective criteria. he clearly is a proven contributor due to his demonstrated abilities as a return guy. And actually, due in strong part to the Bills being weak in CB elite talent

(Clements flew the coop to a beyond market value contract and starter Greer also FA[ed his way out of town, McKelvin is also likely to meet the mark of being a starter in his second year.

 

Your declaration of him as bust as a starting CB seems pretty outlandish if you base this on one pre-season game and totally want to ignore his return game. One place the conventional wisdom is right is that a player needs at least 3 full seasons before a credible bust accusation. McKelvin is far from a bust by any reasonable objective measures. Agreed he is not a top 10 talent but why is this a surprise as he was not drafted in the top 10.

 

As far as the Bills other recent first round picks

 

McKelvin- too early to tell but so far so good as he clearly contributes on ST and actually will likely start in 09 though this is by default as is the case with most mediocre teams

Lynch- made Pro Bowl as an alternate in his second year- schitzy personality problems are the major reasonable indictment of him as a player. Not Thurman yet but after only two years one has to acknowledge two pretty solid on field years along with the outside the lines idiocy.

Whitner- a reach for an S at #8, but given that he has performed better than the safety taken at #7 and the clear Bills needs at SS given their overarching mismangement I think he did not have the breakout year the storybooks would have wanted last year but its hard to mark this down as a bad tactical evaluation it is simply failed strategy which starts at the top and wends an awful course through Brandon and TD before one can lay fault on Modrak or DJ.

McCargo- failed pick, but a recognition of failure here must be accompanied with a recognition of a good pick in rounf 5 finding a medicore talent to replace the McCargo failure

2006- No first round pick though it was traded away for JP, Here the failing is equally or more largely IMHO bad player development coaching rather than bad evaluation in getting Losman. If not Losman who would you have picked to be our next starter at QB?

 

The bottomline is that Modrak has not produced a winner here in Buffalo, but I think it goes a bit beyond reality to lay the record at his rather than at Ralph's door.

 

2. The switch to Hamgartner to find a new savior at C looks like a longshot to me as well, but I think there are way too many changes going on with two rookie guards and non-full year starters at best in the two tackle slots (at best since it was actually youngster Bell rather than out of place vetersn Butler at the RT slot.

 

Yet, given all the changes it still is way to early from one game to declare this try a failure though I doubt it will ever be the answer to all our issues. The comparison to Fowler is interesting if only that the complaint about Fowler (as said in a post above at least get the name right) was that he was a bit light and here is Hamgartner even lighter.

 

The proof in the pudding will be seen over multiple games in whether the Bills can get any positive push on short yardage with an even lighter Center and if they do it will likely be because Hamgartner proves himself to be a refuse to lose leader who gets the most out of Walker and Butler/Bell and leads Woods/LeVitre to be the right kind of player. i doubt this will work but actually have more faith in Woods being a quick study at C than Hamgartner answering all fears and questions.

 

3. I for one do not see us profiting from adopting a BB approach with out BB himself there to lead and cheat his way to glory. If the Pats pick-up fits into their team its a good one. If he does not fit into the way they operate he may be a very good player but it would be a bad pick-up. Likewise with the Bills, just because a player performs well elsewhere does not necessarily mean he would be a good get for us.

 

4. Again it is way too early to declare Schobel toast. In fact coming off a season ending injury last year I actually would demand that he go slow and take it easy in his first exhibition game back. Unfortunately we need to see how he performs in the real game before making a sane judgment.

 

5. Evans has not demonstrated the productivity yet to merit being treated as definite Pro Bowl talent. Yet, it seems willfully ignorant to me to deny his speed (which he has) and also deny that he has in fact shown a little bit of a good nose for the ball. He needs to breakout at some point soon if he really is that good, but it strikes me as fairly foolish if the Bills media and fan fall into this as a either TO is great OR Evans is great. The opportunity here is that if both make each other more productive players. I think it is pretty clear that part of Evans problem last year was that the #2 WR be it Reed, Hardy, or the old version of PP offered little threat, The thing most impressive about Evans numbers last year was the he pulled them off facing dts and without the opposing D being distracted at all. Likewise TO, he pulled off what he did last year with the Boys having Witten at TE as the most credible alternative threat so TO produced what he produced without the Boys having an effective #2/ Now their old #2 is their #1 and we will see how they do.

 

Unless Evans and TO are teammates they are both screwed.

 

6. I also think the Peters trade was simply a sign of poor player realtionship development and management by this team. Even if you argue that Peters was always a putz then this is an indictment of the team for going out of their way to attract as a UDFA a putz.

 

Also as far as you as a poster. You do raise a number of interesting issues, but as far as your commentary about these interesting issues, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

 

1. Modrak (and whoever else of the inner circle) has essentially destroyed the Bills for the foreseeable by reaching for Losman, and then again McCargo for icing the cake. No one here will outlive that disaster.

 

2. Yes, but does Hangartner know all the chess openings like Fowler?

 

3. Granted. Winning isn't everything. ...but neither is losing, so...

 

4. There is no choice but to wait for Schobel to regain his preeminence, unless and until the other Aaron supplants him some year.

 

5. Evans - Losman - Texans - a brace of 83 yards TDs. those were the days...

 

6. Jason and Parker won the tug of war. Now Walker suddenly has molted into a beautiful left tackle.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Amidst this barrage there actually are a number of points which I think there may be profit in discussing the football:

 

1. Modrak has actually demonstrated to me a pretty good ability to evaluate individuals, but from the top down (starting with Ralph) the Bills have shown an inability to build a successful team. On need only look at the last few draft selections were second day picks who should have not even turned out to be adequate players have turned out to be mediocre but passable contributing talents 5th rounder Williams is the archetype example.

 

Where the evaluation has not been adequate has been in an inability to get an earthbreaking leader from any draft or through trade. Its disappointing that the Bills have not found the next Brice Smith, Jim Kelly, or Thurman in the draft or thru trade, but is anyone in the world surprised by this?

 

I do not think so.

 

The Bills have shown no ability to make a once or twice in a decade choice for the last decade or so. Regrettable, but hardly the grounds to declare the entire crew or DJ horribly bad. They are simply intensely medicore.

 

The attack on McKelvin seems actually pretty nuts. My expectation is that a player drafted in the first round stands in reality a little more than a 50/50 chance of even being a starter after his first full season. The conventional wisdom that a first rounder should be a starter his first year is certainly doable and a clear wish. Here in the real world though it tends to break a little more than half of first rounders are actually starters by the end of the their first year (and the heavy bias is for top 10 picks with them being elite players chosen by bad teams as being the lead factors.

 

McKelvin actually looks like a pretty good choice when one looks at objective criteria. he clearly is a proven contributor due to his demonstrated abilities as a return guy. And actually, due in strong part to the Bills being weak in CB elite talent

(Clements flew the coop to a beyond market value contract and starter Greer also FA[ed his way out of town, McKelvin is also likely to meet the mark of being a starter in his second year.

 

Your declaration of him as bust as a starting CB seems pretty outlandish if you base this on one pre-season game and totally want to ignore his return game. One place the conventional wisdom is right is that a player needs at least 3 full seasons before a credible bust accusation. McKelvin is far from a bust by any reasonable objective measures. Agreed he is not a top 10 talent but why is this a surprise as he was not drafted in the top 10.

 

As far as the Bills other recent first round picks

 

McKelvin- too early to tell but so far so good as he clearly contributes on ST and actually will likely start in 09 though this is by default as is the case with most mediocre teams

Lynch- made Pro Bowl as an alternate in his second year- schitzy personality problems are the major reasonable indictment of him as a player. Not Thurman yet but after only two years one has to acknowledge two pretty solid on field years along with the outside the lines idiocy.

Whitner- a reach for an S at #8, but given that he has performed better than the safety taken at #7 and the clear Bills needs at SS given their overarching mismangement I think he did not have the breakout year the storybooks would have wanted last year but its hard to mark this down as a bad tactical evaluation it is simply failed strategy which starts at the top and wends an awful course through Brandon and TD before one can lay fault on Modrak or DJ.

McCargo- failed pick, but a recognition of failure here must be accompanied with a recognition of a good pick in rounf 5 finding a medicore talent to replace the McCargo failure

2006- No first round pick though it was traded away for JP, Here the failing is equally or more largely IMHO bad player development coaching rather than bad evaluation in getting Losman. If not Losman who would you have picked to be our next starter at QB?

 

The bottomline is that Modrak has not produced a winner here in Buffalo, but I think it goes a bit beyond reality to lay the record at his rather than at Ralph's door.

 

2. The switch to Hamgartner to find a new savior at C looks like a longshot to me as well, but I think there are way too many changes going on with two rookie guards and non-full year starters at best in the two tackle slots (at best since it was actually youngster Bell rather than out of place vetersn Butler at the RT slot.

 

Yet, given all the changes it still is way to early from one game to declare this try a failure though I doubt it will ever be the answer to all our issues. The comparison to Fowler is interesting if only that the complaint about Fowler (as said in a post above at least get the name right) was that he was a bit light and here is Hamgartner even lighter.

 

The proof in the pudding will be seen over multiple games in whether the Bills can get any positive push on short yardage with an even lighter Center and if they do it will likely be because Hamgartner proves himself to be a refuse to lose leader who gets the most out of Walker and Butler/Bell and leads Woods/LeVitre to be the right kind of player. i doubt this will work but actually have more faith in Woods being a quick study at C than Hamgartner answering all fears and questions.

 

3. I for one do not see us profiting from adopting a BB approach with out BB himself there to lead and cheat his way to glory. If the Pats pick-up fits into their team its a good one. If he does not fit into the way they operate he may be a very good player but it would be a bad pick-up. Likewise with the Bills, just because a player performs well elsewhere does not necessarily mean he would be a good get for us.

 

4. Again it is way too early to declare Schobel toast. In fact coming off a season ending injury last year I actually would demand that he go slow and take it easy in his first exhibition game back. Unfortunately we need to see how he performs in the real game before making a sane judgment.

 

5. Evans has not demonstrated the productivity yet to merit being treated as definite Pro Bowl talent. Yet, it seems willfully ignorant to me to deny his speed (which he has) and also deny that he has in fact shown a little bit of a good nose for the ball. He needs to breakout at some point soon if he really is that good, but it strikes me as fairly foolish if the Bills media and fan fall into this as a either TO is great OR Evans is great. The opportunity here is that if both make each other more productive players. I think it is pretty clear that part of Evans problem last year was that the #2 WR be it Reed, Hardy, or the old version of PP offered little threat, The thing most impressive about Evans numbers last year was the he pulled them off facing dts and without the opposing D being distracted at all. Likewise TO, he pulled off what he did last year with the Boys having Witten at TE as the most credible alternative threat so TO produced what he produced without the Boys having an effective #2/ Now their old #2 is their #1 and we will see how they do.

 

Unless Evans and TO are teammates they are both screwed.

 

6. I also think the Peters trade was simply a sign of poor player realtionship development and management by this team. Even if you argue that Peters was always a putz then this is an indictment of the team for going out of their way to attract as a UDFA a putz.

 

Also as far as you as a poster. You do raise a number of interesting issues, but as far as your commentary about these interesting issues, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

Good bye and good riddance.

Discussing football on a football board. Whodathunkit?

 

I also can't lay it all at the feet of Modrak. I think he's a good talent evaluator/scout and he found some good players when he was working with Donahoe, some of them are still the leaders of this team in fact, and found some good talent for the Eagles before that, and the Steelers as well. If what Ralph said is true, then he also lobbied to draft Cutler and was ignored. Where would this team and this board be now if the Bills had a young franchise QB coming off a Pro Bowl season, had stocked both their lines to control the line of scrimmage, and were just only now thinking of restocking the back half of its defense? Modrak's role within the organization has been as a guy that puts in his required hours, punches the clock, and goes home since the day Donahoe brought him in. That worked better with Donahoe around since Donahoe was clearly and unabashedly the supreme leader and decision maker and Modrak could kick back and be another pair of eyeballs and sounding board. It hasn't appeared to work as well when the decision makers are the "inner circle" jockeys and Modrak just reports to the water cooler.

 

Really, the "new attitude" that Marv supposedly brought in to the organization has been a mirage in many ways. While no one walks on eggshells around Donahoe anymore, there hasn't been any steady improvement either. Meathead Mularkey was a 7-9 coach on average in Buffalo and Dick Jauron has been a 7-9 coach on average in Buffalo. The franchise is treading water. Marv was a figurehead as the GM who hired a coach he knew and liked and gave that coach unprecedented control within the organization. I may be mistaken but I don't recall Marv himself even having total control over the coaching staff, basically a trump over Wilson himself, written into his contract. Wade certainly didn't have it and no coach under Donahoe had it either. And where did Jauron and the "inner circle" start? They ignored Modrak and passed on Cutler, they drafted a small SS and a bust DT, and tried to address bad lines with FAs like Tuten Reyes and Larry Tripplett. At this point, the head coach's philosophy and doctrine should be well-established, the team should have been demonstrating steady progress, and most of the puzzle pieces should really be in place. But, if one looks at the Bills objectively: they ended season 3 in total disarray and a spectacular free fall; there are still obvious questions about their QB; they're installing a new offense and a new offensive philosophy; they've completely gutted the offensive line; they still have holes in the defensive front 7; and they're still tinkering with the secondary.

 

No need to be concerned at all though, since that would make one a "hater idiot".

[jester43]

Great comments!

 

Better than Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, yet not so overly succinct!

 

Makes other comments seem to disappear into thin air!

 

This is what it's all about!

you're really entertaining, thanks.

 

and yes, this franchise is close to hopeless. i don't have the anger left to express it as creatively as you guys, but yeah...same mess, different year. but at least ralph's in the hall of fame.

 

what a joke.

[Billistic]

you're really entertaining, thanks.

 

and yes, this franchise is close to hopeless. i don't have the anger left to express it as creatively as you guys, but yeah...same mess, different year. but at least ralph's in the hall of fame.

 

what a joke.

 

You quoted a non-existent quote. wow!

[The Dean]

You quoted a non-existent quote. wow!

 

 

No, that was posted.

 

You also had a post that asked where the other four commandments were.

[DCBongo]

"The definition of insanity...is repeating the same actions over and over again and expecting a different outcome"

 

Well then most of us must be insane, because if its a fall Sunday its Meet the Press, followed by At the Movies, followed by the Food Network, but at 1pm, the magic starts, the beer is cracked, the jersey is on and I sit with the anticipation of a 5 year old on Christmas morning thinking the Bill can win this game. The Pipe made some points, but being a fan of the Bills means you are in for the long hall and in-spite it all this Team might surprise us.

 

And if they don't, just drink more beer.

[Endless Ike]

How much has changed from 08 to 09? Same HC, same front office, and most of the same players are present for duty. I don't bank on rookies to improve a team, and the UFA class aside from Owens, is pedestrian. The main issues last year were on the OL and DL.

 

I love the TO acquisition, but he depends on an OL to protect a QB. The DL will struggle to rush the passer, and that's not because of the first preseason game. It's the talent level. Bob Sanders isn't miraculously going to make Chris Kelsay a better pass rusher. And he's not going to help Aaron Schobel come back from a serious foot injury. Aaron Maybin is a complete question mark as well. Who precisely is going to improve the pass rush?

 

DJ is simply not going to improve his in-game management, and neither Turk nor Perry will have the light come on before opening day. I just wish it didn't have to be so obvious before people realized what's going on.

 

this

[Billistic]

No, that was posted.

 

You also had a post that asked where the other four commandments were.

 

Wow...how in fact do my posts get disappeared? How come you can see them and quote them, but no one else can?