Everette Brown

[atlbillsfan1975]

If u watched a single live game in which Scott played, you would realize your statement is far frin the obvious. Just because you don't hear his name on TV doesnt mean he's not good

Never said he wasn't good. Just said he should not be a starter. The Bills must have thought the same thing or they would not have drafted Byrd.

[Lurker]

PS: Here is your "big hitter" Florence in action...

 

LINK

 

Still literally laughing my arse off at you trying play up Florence as a hitter...thanks for the giggles

You're posting a hit from a no-contact training camp practice as evidence?

 

This place is a hoot...

[billsfan89]

Doesn't surprise me at all BECAUSE EVERYONE LOOKS GOOD IN OTA's. What should a team say oh man we really shouldn't have drafted him because even without pads he sucks.

 

I was surprised that Brown fell that far because i thought that he would go to Denver with their second pick in round One but I thought the Bills might take Brown at 42 because of the value and the need to replace Schobel in case he gets injured and for the long term.

 

Looking Back I don't hate the pick of Byrd but if I ran the Bills and had to choose between the two at pick 42 I would have taken Brown because of the value and the fact that I think Brown and Maybin could have developed into a nasty tandem down the road. But if Byrd becomes a probowl free safety and Brown is average than the Byrd pick looks good.

[H2o]

Panthers second-round pick Everette Brown is taking first-team reps at left defensive end during offseason practices.

It's hard to imagine John Fox starting a rookie right away, but Brown has impressed RT Jeff Otah with his strength, which is saying something. Brown is 6'2/256 soaking wet to the mammoth Otah's 6'6/330 after a three-day fast.

Who didn't know that

[K-Gun10]

Well i hope everyones aware that julius peppers would be starting but hes holding out.

[Magox]

PS: Here is your "big hitter" Florence in action...

 

LINK

 

Still literally laughing my arse off at you trying play up Florence as a hitter...thanks for the giggles

To be fair Alpha, that was during practice, where it was obvious that Florence wasn't allowed to tackle LT.

 

So this really doesn't prove anything.

 

But I do agree that Florence shouldn't be a safety

[StupidNation]

Never said he wasn't good. Just said he should not be a starter. The Bills must have thought the same thing or they would not have drafted Byrd.

 

And I guess the fact they play different positions doesn't mean much either? Whitner was the one struggling to defend TEs in coverage getting burned so they put in Scott, particularly in the SD game, to stop the TEs that Whitner couldn't.

 

If Scott doesn't start over Whitner at SS it's only because of the draft selection and payout to Whitner as an investment. Scott at this point is a better player.

[Magox]

First off, the next time you disagree with someone, try something novel like stating your opinion as just that: an opinion, and not the end-all, be-all of incontrovertible fact.

 

Second, "Do a little more scouting next time before you open your mighty round mouth"? How about if you offer an opinion instead of acting like a stuffy, egotistical, over-inflated nimrod?

 

Lastly, I don't know how much time you spend annually studying draft prospects, but my draft information comes from one of two sources: (1) directly from an NFL Scout (and no, I'm not going say which team) or (2) the 10+ hours of video I receive on about 150 different prospects every year. I find it interesting that at least 31 teams partially agreed with me on Brown, since--you know--every team in the league (except for Carolina) passed on him at least once, but hey, I'm sure I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Now if you have something to add to the discussion, please do so in a way that makes you sound like something other than a message-board troll, or just go away.

Bandit, I respect many of the things you write on this board, but your statement in regards to E Brown not having much pass rushing prowess I would say is incorrect. I believe he was the most polished pass rusher in all of college. My guess is that he is going to be a stud in this league, and I had him rated as the #1 DE in this year's draft. Obviously many teams disagreed with the way I viewed him, but that doesn't mean that he isn't. Time will tell.

[zazie]

And I guess the fact they play different positions doesn't mean much either? Whitner was the one struggling to defend TEs in coverage getting burned so they put in Scott, particularly in the SD game, to stop the TEs that Whitner couldn't.

 

If Scott doesn't start over Whitner at SS it's only because of the draft selection and payout to Whitner as an investment. Scott at this point is a better player.

Sad testament on the 2006 draft

[Fingon]

And I guess the fact they play different positions doesn't mean much either? Whitner was the one struggling to defend TEs in coverage getting burned so they put in Scott, particularly in the SD game, to stop the TEs that Whitner couldn't.

 

If Scott doesn't start over Whitner at SS it's only because of the draft selection and payout to Whitner as an investment. Scott at this point is a better player.

Scott started at SS because Whitner was the only one who could man FS without looking terrible. Whitner is certainly the better SS, but Scott would flat out suck at FS. Of course, i wouldn't peg someone who thinks Scott is a starting caliber player as smart enough to know this.

[Alphadawg7]

To be fair Alpha, that was during practice, where it was obvious that Florence wasn't allowed to tackle LT.

 

So this really doesn't prove anything.

 

But I do agree that Florence shouldn't be a safety

 

Most of this isnt really directed at you Magox, just replying to your post to reply to all of them...

 

First, who cares if it was practice, he was chucked 10 yards...and anyone who doesnt think practice is competitive between D and O has never played football...and trust me, your no contact drills have PLENTY of contact...just ask Jack Del Rio...

 

Secondly, it was hilarious none the less to see him get rocked 10 yards by a RB better known for running around you than over you.

 

Thirdly, its the only other video of Drayton...there are no name high school kids with more you tube footage than him...maybe because he isnt a hitter and not suited for safety, which was my original point.

[thebandit27]

Bandit, I respect many of the things you write on this board, but your statement in regards to E Brown not having much pass rushing prowess I would say is incorrect. I believe he was the most polished pass rusher in all of college. My guess is that he is going to be a stud in this league, and I had him rated as the #1 DE in this year's draft. Obviously many teams disagreed with the way I viewed him, but that doesn't mean that he isn't. Time will tell.

 

You know I have no qualms with differing opinions, Magox. I just have trouble with someone telling me that I'm clueless about the guy (and that I need to "do more research" and not "open my mighty mouth" to boot) when I offer mine. I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything (I mean, if I were I'd be a GM, and I'm not), but I do go to beyond reasonable efforts to scout players so that I can offer an educated opinion, so it's tough to sit idle when I get blasted for providing one. Now I know it wasn't you that did that, but I feel like maybe I should backup why I made my comments to Buffaloed.

 

There are certainly plenty of people that agree with you on Brown, my personal opinion just differs...as you said, time will tell.

[Lurker]

hilarious

Yeah, you nailed that one...

[Alphadawg7]

You know I have no qualms with differing opinions, Magox. I just have trouble with someone telling me that I'm clueless about the guy (and that I need to "do more research" and not "open my mighty mouth" to boot) when I offer mine. I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything (I mean, if I were I'd be a GM, and I'm not), but I do go to beyond reasonable efforts to scout players so that I can offer an educated opinion, so it's tough to sit idle when I get blasted for providing one. Now I know it wasn't you that did that, but I feel like maybe I should backup why I made my comments to Buffaloed.

 

There are certainly plenty of people that agree with you on Brown, my personal opinion just differs...as you said, time will tell.

 

Lets all assume for arguments sake that both Brown and Byrd pan out and become good players...who would you rather have? A playmaking ball hawk safety who would be adding several more INT's per season than we currently get from our safeties, or a DE who will add a few more sacks than Schobel will the next 2 seasons?

 

Sacks are incredibly over rated. All they do most of the time is lose 1 to 4 yards and the offense gets another down. When a safety makes a play, we get the ball back...its most often a game changing play (unless we are getting blown out and he is picking off the backup QB, lol).

 

Dont get me wrong, a DE who can get pressure on the QB is very important, but we are talking about OUR team here in this comparison that already has Schobel (who should be at least above average or solid for a couple more seasons) and drafted the best pass rushing specialist in Maybin.

 

Once we drafted Maybin, Safety became a WAY bigger need, and we got the 2nd best safety prospect in the draft who has a reputation for being a playmaker and a ball hawk.

 

So if we fast forward to 2010, and we look back at 09 and they both had good rookie years, I would take Byrd over Brown all day long. Not to mention, its much harder to find a playmaking ball hawk at safety then a guy who can get you some sacks.

[Bill from NYC]

Lets all assume for arguments sake that both Brown and Byrd pan out and become good players...who would you rather have? A playmaking ball hawk safety who would be adding several more INT's per season than we currently get from our safeties, or a DE who will add a few more sacks than Schobel will the next 2 seasons?

 

So if we fast forward to 2010, and we look back at 09 and they both had good rookie years, I would take Byrd over Brown all day long. Not to mention, its much harder to find a playmaking ball hawk at safety then a guy who can get you some sacks.

 

I think that for the sake of this discussion we need to define terms.

If you are asking who I would rather have on my team given a choice between Ronnie Lott and Phil Hansen, I would obviously opt for Lott. Who would you rather have, Ronnie Lott or Bruce Smith?

 

Safeties (and to be honest, Guards), are usually drafted much later than DEs. There are not a lot of guys who can excel at rushing the passer these days, and it might even become more difficult to do so with what looks like an influx of good Left Tackles coming into the league (in places other than Buffalo). It is not unusual for a DE to be drafted first overall. Has a safety ever went first? I doubt it, ya know.

 

The above explains why the Bills took a chance on a very young, small defensive end with such an early pick. I understand the pick and I'm not blasting it because again, it is just that hard to get a pass rusher.

 

Anyway, givn a choice between a defensive end and a safety who are equally proficient at their positions, there is no choice imo. You opt for the pass rusher every time. If he provides consistent pressure, the secondary becomes that much better. If he sacks the qb, the play is over and one need not worry about the safety. If he stops the run consistently, there will be plenty of 3rd and long situations that defensive backs love.

 

It seems like a very clear choice, no?

[mrags]

Robert Mathis of the Colts is 6'2" and 245#, and is a LDE. Maybin (at 21 years old) is 6'4" and 250#. It can be done.

 

I wasnt saying it couldnt be done. I was just saying historically you would want a bigger LDE than a RDE. I think we can agree that he is physically fit more for RDE than he is for LDE. If he doesnt move to LB at some point I see him taking Schobels spot within the next year or 2. With Maybins quick first step and smaller size he is perfect for LDE.

 

"Defensive end (DE) — The two defensive ends play on opposite outside edges of the defensive line. Their function is to attack the passer or stop offensive runs to the outer edges of the line of scrimmage (most often referred to as "containment"). The faster of the two is usually placed on the right side of the defensive line (quarterback's left) because that is a right-handed quarterback's blind side."

[atlbillsfan1975]

And I guess the fact they play different positions doesn't mean much either? Whitner was the one struggling to defend TEs in coverage getting burned so they put in Scott, particularly in the SD game, to stop the TEs that Whitner couldn't.

 

If Scott doesn't start over Whitner at SS it's only because of the draft selection and payout to Whitner as an investment. Scott at this point is a better player.

That is your way of looking at it. If Scott is so good why did he not stick around on the Falcons? Last time i checked they needed some safety help too. Scott was the best other option before Byrd. Now it is Byrd and Whittner. Oh and Scott was drafted in the secnd round by the Falcons to play CB, he was to slow and never worked out. They cut him and Buffalo picked him up.

[Alphadawg7]

I think that for the sake of this discussion we need to define terms.

If you are asking who I would rather have on my team given a choice between Ronnie Lott and Phil Hansen, I would obviously opt for Lott. Who would you rather have, Ronnie Lott or Bruce Smith?

 

Safeties (and to be honest, Guards), are usually drafted much later than DEs. There are not a lot of guys who can excel at rushing the passer these days, and it might even become more difficult to do so with what looks like an influx of good Left Tackles coming into the league (in places other than Buffalo). It is not unusual for a DE to be drafted first overall. Has a safety ever went first? I doubt it, ya know.

 

The above explains why the Bills took a chance on a very young, small defensive end with such an early pick. I understand the pick and I'm not blasting it because again, it is just that hard to get a pass rusher.

 

Anyway, givn a choice between a defensive end and a safety who are equally proficient at their positions, there is no choice imo. You opt for the pass rusher every time. If he provides consistent pressure, the secondary becomes that much better. If he sacks the qb, the play is over and one need not worry about the safety. If he stops the run consistently, there will be plenty of 3rd and long situations that defensive backs love.

 

It seems like a very clear choice, no?

 

 

To be drafted #1, you would have to be graded as Elite coming out of college or a huge need for your team. That being said, Elite safeties are always drafted high and top 10, the problem is that its is not very common to have an Elite safety come along very often and they are much harder to grade to the NFL as their skill set is much more complicated than a guy who lines up on the line and just has to run around a lineman or through him.

 

Let me add this, when was the last time you saw an ELITE FS traded or let go in free agency? I cant't even think of one unless they were on the backsides of their career. It just doesnt happen because they rarely come around.

 

One more thing, a lot of DE sacks come because of the secondary causing the QB to have to hold the ball longer than he wants. In fact one could argue more sacks come from the secondary's coverage giving the DL the extra time to get to the QB then the DL just blowing by the OL. On the flip side, a safety depends on the front 7 as well and will likely look average with a weak overall D unit. So truth is, they depend on each other to be great and you need balance.

 

And that brings me back to what I said in my post: I was referencing our current team as who I would prefer, not referencing every team or if I was building a team from scratch.

 

We severly lack play making at our safety positions. Once we drafted Maybin, DE was no longer a pressing need. So when we had a chance to take Brown or Byrd, Byrd is the hands down best choice in my opinnion and its not even close.

 

Byrd has that rare skill set that could (as with any rookie, nothing is certain) potentially see him becoming an all pro safety where Brown looked more like a workout wonder and why everyone passed on him at least once, and many twice. We are talking about a league where one of the greatest QB's ever (Brady) was drafted near the end of the draft, so obviously nothing is certain. But based on info at the moment of the draft, we got the TOP rated pass rush specialist and then had a chance to take the second best FS prospect in the draft who translates very well to that position based on what we know of him now.

 

Byrd = the better pick at that moment on draft day and could potentially have a big impact on our pass rush by shoring up a weak spot in our secondary.

[oak tree 12]

If you think Scott is a midget, wait until you see Byrd. He's probably the shortest safety in the NFL.

 

To make matters worse, he has never even played safety.

 

One thing for sure though, he is a ball hawk. I hope that translates to the safety position in the NFL.

 

he is also one of the most physical corners that came out in the draft. he may not be very tall but he is very stout and built like a brick s-it house.

[oak tree 12]

Thanks, but I already replied. Try reading the posts first before you make a smart a%$, back-hand comment.

 

Safety wasn't a huge priority for the Bills, IMO, compared to pass rush.

 

your right message board GM's know more than nix and modrak.

 

it would also make great sense to spend your first 2 picks on DE's.

 

lastly the whole league was also stupid since he lasted into the second round when half the guys around here wanted us to take the guy @ 11 including myself.

 

the bills had their choice of DE's except for jackson and they chose Maybin i'm sticking with nix and modrak.