Bills to run no-huddle next year?

[TimGraham]

One of the overlooked elements of a no-huddle offense is a sure-handed tight end. The Bills released the droptastic Robert Royal and drafted Shawn Nelson out of Southern Miss in the fourth round. Nelson is balanced, but known more for his catching ability than his blocking.

 

"Where the no-huddle is most effective is if you got a tight end that can step out a few yards and be a quick receiver and you've got a running back who can cheat out to the weak side and be a quick receiver out of the backfield," Wyche said.

 

"You don't have to substitute to get four wide receivers. You can get your third and fourth receiver from your tight end or your backs. That's when you really optimize your offense."

 

Also one of the overlooked elements of my story.

[TimGraham]

Where the heck is Wyche??

 

He's retired and back home in South Carolina. He's involved in local politics and public speaking.

[John from Riverside]

Also one of the overlooked elements of my story.

 

Sorry Tim....I totally missed it.

[BillsVet]

Maybe this is a marketing ploy from Brandon to make it easier to do commercials next year:

 

K-Gun 1990 versus K-Gun 2009. Show some Kelly and then Edwards.

 

Those commercials showing highlights from the glory years will never run out. They must need new material for 2010.

 

[Larry KenneBREW]

The first thing that I thought of when I saw this was thank God we still have Roscoe Parrish. I think he could be deadly in open space with an exausted defense on the field with Owens and Lee eating up defenders. Dude will look like Barry Sanders out there. UNTOUCHABLE. We better not trade him.

[Peace Frog]

One overlooked aspect of the K-Gun's success was running the counter trey, Thurman's bread & butter. I think we may have not only intelligent linemen, but also the kind that can pull quick enough. And while I'm on the subject of offense, let's see some more screen plays. We've got backs that can catch.

[nucci]

I like it, bring it on. A nice surpise for the Pat's in the opener.

How can it be a surprise if we are all talking about it?

[SKOOBY]

How can it be a surprise if we are all talking about it?

 

 

The suprise will be in the 2nd half when we assume our 17 point lead is enough to win.

[ChasBB]

My favorite part of article:

 

"The Bills also signed a brainy center to make the line calls. Geoff Hangartner scored 47 out of 50 on his Wonderlic intelligence test before the 2005 draft. That's supposedly the record among offensive linemen."

 

Gotta have intelligence on the O-line!

[The Dean]

One overlooked aspect of the K-Gun's success was running the counter trey, Thurman's bread & butter. I think we may have not only intelligent linemen, but also the kind that can pull quick enough. And while I'm on the subject of offense, let's see some more screen plays. We've got backs that can catch.

 

 

What's a screen? Obviously, that page has been missing from the Bills playbook for years. I think it is missing from the defensive playbook, as well, as they can't seem to stop one.

[phillyrich]

And our O-Line will become about 40% better because of the no huddle.

[ChasBB]

What's a screen? Obviously, that page has been missing from the Bills playbook for years. I think it is missing from the defensive playbook, as well, as they can't seem to stop one.

Oh, how so very, very true!

[TimGraham]

Sorry Tim....I totally missed it.

 

Just having fun.

[crazyDingo]

Coach Jauron has been known as an innovator his whole career. I could totally see this happening. They used to call him Crazy Dick during his championship run with the Bears back in '29.

[OCinBuffalo]

Crap! I was gonna post something like this the second I had the time-->really I had been reading the K-Gun playbook. I've been thinking no-huddle since the draft. But, then again, I know what I would write would NOT include quotes from Sam Wyche, etc. Posts like this are better left to the professionals like Tim anyway. However, here's what I was thinking that hasn't already been said someplace here(edit: in terms of blocking TEs not catching TEs)

 

1. For those of you that don't know, the K-Gun was predicated on the Tight End position = the K stood for the name of the TE = Keith McKellar.

2. Here's a handy copy of the 1994 K-gun offense for X's and O's dweebs(including me).

3. If you look at #2, you can see just how important TEs are in terms of protection schemes, formations, etc. to the K-Gun. Not saying that TE is important to every no-huddle system, but I have to figure that most of the concepts described above are relatively universal.

4. We know Edwards can move his feet and throw on the run. That makes all the waggles and roll-outs available. (Why the hell we didn't have JP moving his feet, I'll never know. You throw off the entire pass rush scheme when you move just 5 yards. But that's all in the past.)

5. For this to work we have to count on Nelson, etc. at least being able to throw a decent chip block on an outside LB and then get open in the space behind that OLB if he is blitzing/playing the run. In fact if you look through the plays, chip blocks by RBs and TEs are all over the place. Also the RBs and TEs have to work together on who is blocking and who is getting open after an initial block, etc.

 

I am comfortable with our current backfield being able to chip block people and disrupt rushes, and then get open. But, I'm not sure if Nelson can do all that, and while I am sure that Fine, etc. can do the blocking part, I'm not sure that they can do the get open after the block, catch the ball, etc. part.

 

Again, perhaps hurry-ups are not defined all the same as the K-Gun, but it seems to me that many of the concepts of a hurry-up depend on the TE, and that's a lot to put on Nelson's shoulders. However, while I don't know if 4 and 5 will work, anything is better than last year's offense.

[BillsNYC]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

[nucci]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

Agree. Those are my thoughts. We have many questions about this line with possibly 2 rookies starting. Not the time to run a no-huddle offense.

[SKOOBY]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

 

If the right people are in place, it's tough to stop.

[Magox]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

Actually, I believe the No huddle could hide some of the O-Line's deficiencies.

[Fingon]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

It helps that we drafted two very smart players.

 

Wonderlic scores:

Levitre- 36

Wood- 29

 

 

I don't think they will have as much trouble as the average rookie.

[Kelly the Dog]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

 

It's possible that it would be easier to teach them a handful of basic plays to run the no huddle out of, versus the hundreds of plays a normal playbook would have. Making it public probably doesn't mean much, it's not as though teams are going to start preparing to face the Bills now. As soon as they start using it in pre-season it will be pretty evident that they intend to use it. I would highly doubt that they would just practice it against their own players and keep it hidden in pre-season games just for the first week against NE, versus actually trying it out in games.

 

That said, it's hard to know if they are thinking of this as a couple series a game, or the base offense. People tend to forget that the first season we used it, it worked great for an early game and then we socked it away for most of the season until pulling it out late and then using it almost exclusively from then on.

[Magox]

It helps that we drafted two very smart players.

 

Wonderlic scores:

Levitre- 36

Wood- 29

 

 

I don't think they will have as much trouble as the average rookie.

I would think that the learning curve for these guys won't be as much as most rookies. Also, lets not forget that these guys have been starting O-line man for their respective colleges for a while now. It's not as if they are 1 or 2 year starters, these guys have been starting O-Line man from the beginning of their college careers. Hangartner with a 47 wonderlic score will be manning the middle, which probably is the most critical position in making the calls, and his intelligence I would think would help tremendously.

[OCinBuffalo]

Riddle me this, with an O-line starting somebody new at every position, including two rookies who have never played these respective positions before, aren't we just opening up ourselves for disaster?

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, the no huddle IS Buffalo, I just wonder if its right to implement it right away, and if its smart to make it public?

Agreed to a certain extent. But if your boy Edwards is as smart and mobile as we think, the ball is supposed to be away before the line really becomes a liability in a hurry-up, right?

 

Also, tiring out a fat azz NT and the rest of a 3-4 defense by snapping the ball every 20 seconds, has to be a good thing. Whether it's public or not, fat azz still has to line up and play. Making the 4 LBs chase TEs and Rbs around is always a good plan. Think 49ers vs. Bills in 1992(3?). They were trying to cover Thomas w/ a LB and got beat severely on multiple plays, 1 for a TD.

 

In fact, I think a hurry-up basically destroys the 3-4 concept on the whole. You can't leave your LBs in there the whole game. You have to play a large part of the game with nickel or dime. This puts the big talent assets of a 3-4 team, the LBs, on the bench and makes them play their 3rd and 4th CBs.

 

But your points are well taken. As I said, a lot depends on the smarts/blocking skills of the TEs and RBs. You add in the new O lineman and it may simply be too much to do this year.

[Steely Dan]

I love just about everything about that, for many reasons. There were many times last year I was screaming at the Bills to go no-huddle. A team doesn't have to use it exclusively, but using it in the right situations would be awesome. If Trent is as smart as he is supposed to be, the play calling should be better, too.

 

BTW, 2003, It's probably best to post an excerpt, and not the entire article. Just sayin'

 

But, thanks for the heads-up, as I missed the article. Good job, Mr, Graham, too.

 

EDIT: "droptastic Robert Royal"...beautiful!

 

We may be jumping the gun (no pun intended) and the Bills will have to see if the pieces fit. If they use Nelson in this offense then that would mean three rookies would be on offense and they tend to hit the wall late in the season.

 

 

Wow, i had no idea that Hangartner got the highest score on the wonderlic for an offensive lineman, ever.... (47) He's just the kind of guy i would want doing the line calls.

 

I was surprised by that too.

 

 

Not at all. I'm under contract, but the folks back in Bristol, Conn., do track page views and comments.

 

For instance, I wasn't supposed to cover the NFL owners' meetings, but I had a string of posts that generated a lot of traffic right before the meetings. So they sent me because I was viewed as "a big producer."

 

If I had a nickel for everytime a woman called me that!!

 

 

I think this is a great point! When you look at more modern versions of the no-huddle the most important piece is stripped away, the hurry up piece. OU vs Florida last year was a prime example, sure OU would line up in a hurry but then Sam Bradford would look over to the sideline for the call from the coach wasting 10-20 seconds for a play to come in.

 

The no-huddle is close to meaningless if you are going to line up quickly, then wait for a call the come in from the coaching staff, and then walking up and down the line convening the play. They should have the plays scripted or the QB should be calling the plays with a suggestion from the OC.

I think it would be a great idea for the Bills to run this type of offense, Trent did great in hurry up situations last year. If he has 4 quarters do play like that all the better.

 

The helmet receivers should help with that I'd think.

[Preston Ridlehuber]

Agreed to a certain extent. But if your boy Edwards is as smart and mobile as we think, the ball is supposed to be away before the line really becomes a liability in a hurry-up, right?

 

Also, tiring out a fat azz NT and the rest of a 3-4 defense by snapping the ball every 20 seconds, has to be a good thing. Whether it's public or not, fat azz still has to line up and play. Making the 4 LBs chase TEs and Rbs around is always a good plan. Think 49ers vs. Bills in 1992(3?). They were trying to cover Thomas w/ a LB and got beat severely on multiple plays, 1 for a TD.

 

In fact, I think a hurry-up basically destroys the 3-4 concept on the whole. You can't leave your LBs in there the whole game. You have to play a large part of the game with nickel or dime. This puts the big talent assets of a 3-4 team, the LBs, on the bench and makes them play their 3rd and 4th CBs.

 

But your points are well taken. As I said, a lot depends on the smarts/blocking skills of the TEs and RBs. You add in the new O lineman and it may simply be too much to do this year.

 

 

On the other hand, putting in a system that eliminates some of the time that they may use to over think their assignments might be the best way to minimize mistakes. You throw in a QB whose strength is supposed to be recognition of coverages and a couple of RB who are equally effective running and reveiving and you should be able to find the missed assignments and exploit it. Three things to remember about the K-gun.

1) It was named after Keith McKeller because they thought his speed would be the keep to creating mis-matches.

2) A lot of the big plays were simple crossing patterns that took advantage of missed assignments.

3) Thurman's ability to run, block and catch turned into the ultimate advantage of the no huddle attack

[OCinBuffalo]

On the other hand, putting in a system that eliminates some of the time that they may use to over think their assignments might be the best way to minimize mistakes. You throw in a QB whose strength is supposed to be recognition of coverages and a couple of RB who are equally effective running and reveiving and you should be able to find the missed assignments and exploit it. Three things to remember about the K-gun.

1) It was named after Keith McKeller because they thought his speed would be the keep to creating mis-matches.

2) A lot of the big plays were simple crossing patterns that took advantage of missed assignments.

3) Thurman's ability to run, block and catch turned into the ultimate advantage of the no huddle attack

Agree on the first para, but there's some ifs there that have to get answered in OTAs or they won't do this.

 

1. Yep

2. My God, can you imagine Lee Evans or Roscoe running crossing patterns? I would love to see that consistently. It could work the other way too: have TO running the crossing route and Evans a fly pattern, confuse the safeties and somebody gets single coverage. Evans or TO in single coverage all game = that's not fair.

3. Yep, and there's no reason that Lynch/Rhodes can't be Thurman and Jackson can't be Davis.

 

The question for me is: can Nelson be Metzelaars(or McKellar)?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

The helmet receivers should help with that I'd think.

 

That depends on how long it take to send those plays to the helmet. If you have to wait on the OC to pick a play tell Van Pelt and for Van Pelt to send in the play, it may not help that much.

[dave mcbride]

I was viewed as "a big producer."

"Top earner," I believe, is the better term. You're just like Vito Spatafore.

[dave mcbride]

Given what I've heard about Parrish's struggles understanding the offense at regular speed, I'm now starting to understand their willingness to deal him.

[TimGraham]

"Top earner," I believe, is the better term. You're just like Vito Spatafore.

 

A dead, short, gay Italian?

[Original Byrd Man]

One overlooked aspect of the K-Gun's success was running the counter trey, Thurman's bread & butter. I think we may have not only intelligent linemen, but also the kind that can pull quick enough. And while I'm on the subject of offense, let's see some more screen plays. We've got backs that can catch.

While we have backs that can catch, no one comes near the ability of Thomas. Some of the catches I watched him make were incredible. One handed stabs 40 yards down the field. Laying out for another. He had no equal. We have all heard that ML was a recieving threat in college but I haven't seen anything to get excited about yet. Hopefully he is just saving it for the right time.

[DDD]

Personally I don't care what they do as long as they score more freaking points.

 

Well said sir.

[dave mcbride]

A dead, short, gay Italian?

Dead in a horrible way too - with Phil Leotardo coming out of the closet! Seriously, nice article. At first I thought, why would the Bills let the cat out of the bag so early? And then I quickly remembered that they'll have to run it in preseason. All four tedious games.

[The Dean]

Given what I've heard about Parrish's struggles understanding the offense at regular speed, I'm now starting to understand their willingness to deal him.

 

 

This isn't directed at you, really, Dave...but I'll take this opportunity to ask a question, once again. I keep hearing how Parrish has trouble running routes, doesn't understand the offense, etc. But, the only place I hear that is on Bills fan forums. Where have you heard this, other than from other fans? I don't think I have ever heard that Parrish has trouble with routes, or the playbook, except on The Wall.

[ChasBB]

I definitely like the no-huddle, but what I like even more is the concept of the QB calling his own plays. I think Edwards is now ready to take this step. Turk started off on the sideline (because he believed that that you get a better "feel" for the game when you're down there with the guys), but he eventually ended up going back to the press box because he must have missed certain things that were important.

 

Likewise, the guys on the field have the best feel for the game. If they have experience and talent, then I think it's a good idea to allow them to take more control over the game -- draw up plays in the sand as Jim Kelly once said.

 

Turk will obviously provide crucial input and call certain plays because he knows what he's doing and he has a bird's eye view of the field from the press box, but I think he'll experience even more success if he let's Edwards become more of a decision-maker on the field.

 

I'm all for the no-huddle, but your defense has to be in great condition because a 3-and-out with the no-huddle barely gives your own defense enough time to wipe their sweat off their foreheads before they have to hit the field again. It can be a double-edged sword, but when it's working, it is sweet!

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

sounds great... bring it on!

[ax4782]

If we ran the no huddle half as effectively as we did in the early nineties, we could be a very good football team. That offense was extremely effective against 3-4 defenses, many of which we will be facing in our division this year. Would sure be nice to finally rack up some points against NE this season, and watch Vince Wilfork get winded in the second quarter.

[dave mcbride]

This isn't directed at you, really, Dave...but I'll take this opportunity to ask a question, once again. I keep hearing how Parrish has trouble running routes, doesn't understand the offense, etc. But, the only place I hear that is on Bills fan forums. Where have you heard this, other than from other fans? I don't think I have ever heard that Parrish has trouble with routes, or the playbook, except on The Wall.

Good point. I think I did hear it here, although I can't recall exactly. That makes what I said irrelevant.

[The Dean]

Good point. I think I did hear it here, although I can't recall exactly. That makes what I said irrelevant.

 

 

Dave, I hear it so often here, there might really be something out there. But I have yet to find it. With so much info out there, it is hard to separate the "real" info from stuff that is total BS but often repeated. I honestly don't know which of those categories the "Parrish can't run routes" belongs in. I suspect it is BS, as I haven't really noticed a problem in that area. But I guess the problem might be so bad, they don't challenge him with many different routes, so it would be hard to notice.

[folz]

One overlooked aspect of the K-Gun's success was running the counter trey, Thurman's bread & butter. I think we may have not only intelligent linemen, but also the kind that can pull quick enough. And while I'm on the subject of offense, let's see some more screen plays. We've got backs that can catch.

 

 

Great post Porksword, I was going to say something similar (and I love the avatar too)!

 

Watching highlights of Wood and Levitre during and after the draft, one of the things

that stood out to me was that they both could pull...(and I think I heard that of Hangartner too)...

And dreams of screens, couter treys, and sweeps danced in my head...I mean when is the last

time we've been able to run those types of plays successfully? If we have so much trouble with

the great NTs in our division for God's sake let's run some plays away from them, to neutralize

them a bit.

 

Intelligent, nasty linemen, who can pull and LOVE to play the game...there's hope yet for our Bills!

 

 

Not to mention Kelly's around to give TE some pointers...while Turk can rely on Wyche if they do go

with a no-huddle.

 

 

Nice article Tim...actually laughed out loud at "droptastic Robert Royal"