bizell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We beat them at home, case in point! the Browns beat the Bills @ home. Does that mean Brady Quinn is a better QB than Trent Edwards? Your logic is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I wasnt aware Cutler played the Bills all by himself.... I think Cutler is a good player, and I don't want to read too much into one play. But the INT that McKelvin made in the fourth quarter of that game (and which was overturned because of BS penalty on Stroud) was a terrible, terrible decision by Cutler and it should have cost the Broncos the game. He does not get a pass for that game. Sure, it didn't count, but it should have, and it should have sealed Denver's fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I think Cutler is a good player, and I don't want to read too much into one play. But the INT that McKelvin made in the fourth quarter of that game (and which was overturned because of BS penalty on Stroud) was a terrible, terrible decision by Cutler and it should have cost the Broncos the game. He does not get a pass for that game. Sure, it didn't count, but it should have, and it should have sealed Denver's fate. Hmm...I can name 4 games right off the top of my head where an Edwards bone head throw (3 of which resulted in INT's be returned for a TD) and I mean terrible throw, cost us the game. Cutlers worst game as a pro was no where near the debacle Edwards put up in the Cle game... QB's make bad throws...Manning and Brady do...Montanna, Young, Aikman, Farve, Kelly, and Marino all did countless times in their career...so get over one game and one play, it does not define a QB...in fact, I can name a game where all the above QB's made a worse throw than the one you referenced in far more important games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Gun10 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I can't see Cutler in a Jets uniform because the Jets don't have anything to offer. They are not going to trade Cutler unless they get a QB in return. Agreed which is why i think hes going to cleveland for Brady Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 LMAO, what is the deal with posters on this board using the Bills-Denver game to show that Cutler isnt good enough and that Edwards is better...geezus, one game doesnt define a player. There have been games where QB's like Farve, Montanna, Brady, Manning, and every other Elite QB has thrown 3, 4, even 5 interceptions in a game and single handeldy cost their team wins, even big wins. Heck, Manning had a huge cloud over his head until he won the Super Bowl because until then he had a lot more bad games than good games in the post season...does any of this mean those QB's were terrible? Not at all...so how does this Bills-Denver game make Cutler a bad QB...No QB will ever have a perfect season or never make a bad decision...it comes with the territory. Cutler is NOT the reason the Broncos missed the playoffs...and thats the bottom line. Not to mention, he still led that offense to the 2nd rated offense in the NFL despite playing with a midget ROOKIE WR, not having his #1 WR for the first 2 games, and having no running backs... And FYI: Edwards Cleveland game was one of the worst QB performances I have ever seen, and few would disagree with that, and far worse than any game Cutler has ever had and a CRITICAL game for our playoff hopes...so go ahead, make excuses for Trent on that game and label Cutler a hack for his game against the Bills... FYI: In that game agaisnt the Broncos, Trent was facing the worst D in the league that was missing its best player in Bailey... Man, the rationale on this board sometimes is just puzzling... Funny that you should mention the Cleveland game. Yes, that was certainly the worst performance of Trent's young career. And yet... and yet... he had the Bills in the position to kick the game winning field goal. Cutler has a PATTERN of making horrible mistakes at crucial times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmm...I can name 4 games right off the top of my head where an Edwards bone head throw (3 of which resulted in INT's be returned for a TD) and I mean terrible throw, cost us the game. Cutlers worst game as a pro was no where near the debacle Edwards put up in the Cle game... QB's make bad throws...Manning and Brady do...Montanna, Young, Aikman, Farve, Kelly, and Marino all did countless times in their career...so get over one game and one play, it does not define a QB...in fact, I can name a game where all the above QB's made a worse throw than the one you referenced in far more important games... The thing is AD, fantasy numbers and arm strength alone don't make a quarterback. Do you remember a couple of years back when Losman completed 2 absolutely beautiful bombs for TDs on 2 consecutive plays? Each pass was more beautiful than the next. Yep, the passes were great and I am guessing so were the fantasy numbers, but we lost AD7. We lost! And please, this post is NOT about JP. I am making the case that wins mean more than frills. A really good quarterback needs to win football games. Sometimes, in fact very often, a qb with a lead has to complete a 9 yard pass on 3rd and 8 to run out the clock and win the football game. Cutler is good and has a great skillset. But, in my very strong opinion, if he won more games this trade scenario wouldn't exist. Remember, Cutler has a better arm than Peyton Manning, and I am not hearing of any trades there, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmm...I can name 4 games right off the top of my head where an Edwards bone head throw (3 of which resulted in INT's be returned for a TD) and I mean terrible throw, cost us the game. Cutlers worst game as a pro was no where near the debacle Edwards put up in the Cle game... QB's make bad throws...Manning and Brady do...Montanna, Young, Aikman, Farve, Kelly, and Marino all did countless times in their career...so get over one game and one play, it does not define a QB...in fact, I can name a game where all the above QB's made a worse throw than the one you referenced in far more important games... What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills. In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game. J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's It was over when ... Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him. Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it, but it is an important factor. The factor that you don't want to ignore. But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one. 3 games Alpha. 0 victories. But forget about the victories, here are the facts 3 games. One victory and they are in. So let's see how he did. He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int. he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's. 2 td's and 4 int's in their final 3 games. hmm No wonder Mcdaniels has second thoughts about him. These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument. Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability. 0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The thing is AD, fantasy numbers and arm strength alone don't make a quarterback. Do you remember a couple of years back when Losman completed 2 absolutely beautiful bombs for TDs on 2 consecutive plays? Each pass was more beautiful than the next. Yep, the passes were great and I am guessing so were the fantasy numbers, but we lost AD7. We lost! And please, this post is NOT about JP. I am making the case that wins mean more than frills. A really good quarterback needs to win football games. Sometimes, in fact very often, a qb with a lead has to complete a 9 yard pass on 3rd and 8 to run out the clock and win the football game. Cutler is good and has a great skillset. But, in my very strong opinion, if he won more games this trade scenario wouldn't exist. Remember, Cutler has a better arm than Peyton Manning, and I am not hearing of any trades there, right? Exactly. Plus we just kicked one B word QB out of town, we don't need another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Cutler is a decent QB surrounded by great players. I highly doubt he will be close to what he was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills. B In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game. J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's It was over when ... Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him. Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it. But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one. victories. 3 games Alpha. 0 victories. I know you don't put too much stock in the victories, which is definitely a big factor. But here are the facts 3 games. all they needed was one victory and they go to the playoffs. He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int. he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's. These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument. Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability. 0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in. Thanks for the great info. Btw, Cutler's stats are probably also inflated to a degree simply because the defense was so bad. Teams obviously throw more when coming from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills. In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game. J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's It was over when ... Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him. Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it, but it is an important factor. The factor that you don't want to ignore. But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one. 3 games Alpha. 0 victories. But forget about the victories, here are the facts 3 games. One victory and they are in. So let's see how he did. He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int. he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's. 2 td's and 4 int's in their final 3 games. hmm No wonder Mcdaniels has second thoughts about him. These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument. Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability. 0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in. Are you kidding me? The argument is Cutler for Edwards and the only defense you have is "in the clutch". You must have been in a coma the whole second half of Buffalo's season last year. Pathetic argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 my two cents: id rather have edwards than cutler, most of my reasons have already been pointed out in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Are you kidding me? The argument is Cutler for Edwards and the only defense you have is "in the clutch". You must have been in a coma the whole second half of Buffalo's season last year. Pathetic argument. if you don't see the argument. Then it is useless with you. Ok, you can have the qb who doesn't play well in the clutch. Because we all know it is not important for a qb to be able to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 the Browns beat the Bills @ home. Does that mean Brady Quinn is a better QB than Trent Edwards? Your logic is ridiculous. It was a reference to Denver's defense. Not a Cutler/Edwards comparison. But thanks for playing anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The thing is AD, fantasy numbers and arm strength alone don't make a quarterback. Do you remember a couple of years back when Losman completed 2 absolutely beautiful bombs for TDs on 2 consecutive plays? Each pass was more beautiful than the next. Yep, the passes were great and I am guessing so were the fantasy numbers, but we lost AD7. We lost! And please, this post is NOT about JP. I am making the case that wins mean more than frills. A really good quarterback needs to win football games. Sometimes, in fact very often, a qb with a lead has to complete a 9 yard pass on 3rd and 8 to run out the clock and win the football game. Cutler is good and has a great skillset. But, in my very strong opinion, if he won more games this trade scenario wouldn't exist. Remember, Cutler has a better arm than Peyton Manning, and I am not hearing of any trades there, right? This is just bad logic. Cutler played with one of the worst defenses we have seen in awhile last year. He wasn't afforded the luxury of skipping three quarters of action like Trent was. The Broncos O had to chuck it all day long in most of their games in order to keep up. In this scenario turnovers are inevitable but to their credit they put up points. If put in the Broncos situation last year, Edwards would have led Denver to the second pick in the draft. According to your logic Bill, the Saints should be looking to trade Brees for Kerry Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 if you don't see the argument. Then it is useless with you. Ok, you can have the qb who doesn't play well in the clutch. Because we all know it is not important for a qb to be able to do that Do we really need to dissect Edwards record in must win situations? I'm assuming you watched a few games last year and don't need a recap, right? If my memory serves me correctly he wasn't exactly on fire down the stretch. This is your cue for the ready made he had a concussion for half the year, nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Funny that you should mention the Cleveland game. Yes, that was certainly the worst performance of Trent's young career. And yet... and yet... he had the Bills in the position to kick the game winning field goal. Cutler has a PATTERN of making horrible mistakes at crucial times. The only reason we were in a position to win that game was because of our returners. Mckelvin returned a kick for a t.d. and that last drive was set up by a nice return by Parrish. You Cutler haters seem to forget that Kelly wanted nothing to do with Buffalo when we drafted him. When he finally showed up he sucked. And talk about being a baby, he flipped off the fans after being heckeled during one of his worst performances. Kelly went on to be our greatest QB and our most beloved sports personality. Cutler would make us explosive. The personality needs help but I'm sure it can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is just bad logic. Cutler played with one of the worst defenses we have seen in awhile last year. He wasn't afforded the luxury of skipping three quarters of action like Trent was. The Broncos O had to chuck it all day long in most of their games in order to keep up. In this scenario turnovers are inevitable but to their credit they put up points. If put in the Broncos situation last year, Edwards would have led Denver to the second pick in the draft. According to your logic Bill, the Saints should be looking to trade Brees for Kerry Collins. Right there you show your ignorance. Jay Cutler had: a great offensive line, great WR, very good #2, a very good pass catching TE, AND a great running game. When was the last time Trent had that? Cutler was merely average last year, even though he had great talent on the offensive side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The thing is AD, fantasy numbers and arm strength alone don't make a quarterback. Do you remember a couple of years back when Losman completed 2 absolutely beautiful bombs for TDs on 2 consecutive plays? Each pass was more beautiful than the next. Yep, the passes were great and I am guessing so were the fantasy numbers, but we lost AD7. We lost! And please, this post is NOT about JP. I am making the case that wins mean more than frills. A really good quarterback needs to win football games. Sometimes, in fact very often, a qb with a lead has to complete a 9 yard pass on 3rd and 8 to run out the clock and win the football game. Cutler is good and has a great skillset. But, in my very strong opinion, if he won more games this trade scenario wouldn't exist. Remember, Cutler has a better arm than Peyton Manning, and I am not hearing of any trades there, right? Umm...I think I remember that game...it was against the Houston Texans, (two 83 yard td passes to #83 Lee Evans), I was there, and I think we actually won that game...but I understand your point. I just think that people critcizing Cutler, by saying fantasy stats don't necessarily make a great QB, are simplifying things a bit. Point out every bad play, this very young NFL QB has made, and someone else, intimately familiar with the nuances of the Broncos, can likely come up with a great play that he made...he is still learning...IMO, playing under Shanahan has accelerated his learning. He has been very productive, on some very flawed teams. As a part-time Broncos fan, I can't believe what a mess this has become, and that Pat Bowlan is letting it happen. Your point about Cutlers W-L record contributing to this is kind of silly...they just fired their long tenured coach, after nearly a decade of mediocre finishes. Cutler has been maybe the brightest spots for the franchise since Elway hung it up. He is hardly the biggest issue the Broncos have...or, maybe until two weeks ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmm...I can name 4 games right off the top of my head where an Edwards bone head throw (3 of which resulted in INT's be returned for a TD) and I mean terrible throw, cost us the game. Cutlers worst game as a pro was no where near the debacle Edwards put up in the Cle game... QB's make bad throws...Manning and Brady do...Montanna, Young, Aikman, Farve, Kelly, and Marino all did countless times in their career...so get over one game and one play, it does not define a QB...in fact, I can name a game where all the above QB's made a worse throw than the one you referenced in far more important games... Did you read my post - the part where I said I'm not judging him on one play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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