The Play Call - Unbelievable!

[Boomer860]

yepper

[The Big Cat]

3-4 yards minimum. The D had been stacked against the run for several plays. If you NEED to rollout, run a sweep with Lynch or Jackson, but that still works against the weakness of the D, at the time. A pass is simply stupid, and your RBs are better at running than the QB.

 

NO EXCUSE for that call, IMO. Wrong on every level.

 

Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances.

 

Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion.

[DE Bills Fan]

JP doing what he does. Execution outweighs coaching in this circumstance. This isn't settling for a 47 yard fg to try to win a game. This is trying to get a 1st down to ice the game. Yes they should've just ran it, we all know that. As a 5th year qb you should have enough common sense to protect the ball and eat the sack or throw it the hell away

Totally disagree. Coaching outweighs execution in this case. If the ball was being given to Lynch, that play would never have happened and we would be talking about how gutsy the Bills were for coming back from a 14-3 hole to win the game by dominating the Jets in the 4th Quarter. Sorry, but while Losman deserves some of the blame, I give the lions share to jauron. This is as bad as the Miracle in the Meadowlands when the G-Men lost to the Eagles by bothibg a handoff to runn out the clock. pathetic!!!

[The Big Cat]

Huh? A coach can't think "my QB is terrible but the other guys can't stop my rushing attack"?

 

 

And by the time we got to the 4Q today, was there anyone left who thought that JP still belonged on this team, or in the NFL?

 

 

 

If this was anyone but you, I'd presume this was a goof.

 

Again you're conveniently ignoring Losman's four straight completions which set up the rushing TD earlier in the fourth.

[DE Bills Fan]

Great post. Totally agree

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

On the CBS half-time show, they called the decision to pass "inexplicable".

[DE Bills Fan]

So what,and on third down they run again...even if they get no gain they can still punt the ball away with less then a minute to go the Jets get the ball on their 45 and would need A FG to tie and a TD to win.

 

Throwing the ball when you need to run out the clock is simply moronic.

 

Totally agree. Any counter-arguement is moronic

[TheChimp]

I would probably have called a run in that situation. But I don't think the call was as boneheaded as the result would have us feel. Such a pass play is almost equivalent to a run, if the QB has any brains.

 

Ah--I get it now! You win.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Nope. A rollout should take more than 6 seconds off the clock and take you under the 2... I agree with Big Cat...

 

I knew the Bills were done when THEY had to take a timeout before the 2...

 

We just agree to disagree I guess.

 

Please give me some of what you're smoking. You're posts throughout this thread are scaring me. No f'n way that: 1) the play call itself 2) JP's actual execution of the play 3) the coaches believing JP could effectively execute the play should be defended. An absolute horse s*it call in the context of what was happeneng in the game at that moment (down and distance, score, Jets timeouts remaining, momentum of running game, turnover potential of JP, etc.)

[jad1]

Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances.

 

Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion.

 

The people who agree with you are wrong. If the Bills couldn't average 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down to get the first, with the way that Lynch and Jackson were running the ball, then they eat clock, force the Jets to waste timeouts and kick the ball away.

 

By the way, the Jets didn't get a first down the entire 4th quarter.

 

A good coach would have placed the game in the hands of Lynch/Jackson, and the defense. A bad coach puts the ball in the hands of their lame-duck, mistake-prone, washout of a qb (who hasn't won a game in over a year), hoping that he plays against type.

 

There's no defending that call.

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is one reason I did not think the call was idiotic, though neither would a run call have been.

 

One concrete advantage of the rollout call is that, if you get the first down here, you have that many more plays in which to run out the clock, giving the Jets no time to score even if they get the ball back.

 

 

Ding! We have a winner... Repeat: RollOut is the operative word here. They didn't drop JPL in the pocket and have him toss it... That would have been moronic.

[Dan]

Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances.

 

Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion.

Not entirely. Sure if JP completes the pass it's a mute point. But, what if he's simply sacked. Now it's 3 and 10ish and you have to almost certainly throw. Bottom line: that call in that situation has more potential bad than good that can happen. A run up the middle has more potential good than bad that can happen.

 

It's kinda like last year's 3rd and 5 play late in the game that JP launches to Evans. Why? You just don't need that play in that situation of the game. In the middle of the 3rd quarter, maybe its not so bad. But, with 2 minutes left in the game protecting a lead, you play it safe and dive into the line with your beast of a RB.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Ding! We have a winner... Repeat: RollOut is the operative word here. They didn't drop JPL in the pocket and have him toss it... That would have been moronic.

 

 

No F'ing way that was a designed run that JP "decided" to throw the ball on insead of follow the script.

[Kelso]

Give it a rest. You guys are all over the Bills for conservative play-calling, they make a gutsy call when the clock is going to stop for the 2:00 warning and you're all over them? JP should have a BRAIN and realize what his responsibility is on that play, THROW IT AWAY if anyone is near you, he's the IDIOT and if he starts next week the Bills should fire Jauron immediately.

 

 

I hate to say it, but the call was terrible! 2:06 in the game with a short gain to go is not the time to call play action. Especially when your RB is hammering the ball! Not to mention they were in the shadows of the end zone! Big Dick is supposedly Ivy league educated, I knew that education was over rated! Would anyone else in the league other than the stumbling Bills trust JP Losman in that scenario? Unequivocally NO!

 

Trade Lynch, he deserves better, he is a man amongst boys! This season could have been a nightmare instead he has grown personally and professionally. More than I can say for that loser Losman! One other complaint! Jason Peters is not worth the money!

[The Big Cat]

The people who agree with you are wrong. If the Bills couldn't average 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down to get the first, with the way that Lynch and Jackson were running the ball, then they eat clock, force the Jets to waste timeouts and kick the ball away.

 

By the way, the Jets didn't get a first down the entire 4th quarter.

 

A good coach would have placed the game in the hands of Lynch/Jackson, and the defense. A bad coach puts the ball in the hands of their lame-duck, mistake-prone, washout of a qb (who hasn't won a game in over a year), hoping that he plays against type.

 

There's no defending that call.

 

Well, yes there is, in fact.

 

There was no clock to eat. The two minute warning was coming in 6 seconds. The play was going to end in a stoppage of time, regardless. To say we needed to run there to eat up the clock is, fundamentally, wrong.

[thewildrabbit]

Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances.

 

Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion.

Simply because you read someone else agreeing it wasn't a bad call doesn't change the fact that most of the world KNOWS it was one of the worst calls in Bills history,perhaps in NFL history. Coaches will be showing that call to assistant coaches on what not to call in that situation!

 

Go read the Two Bills Dive writers columns, people that say it was not a bad call are in the minority,and frankly I have to doubt their football intelligence for doing so.

[ExiledInIllinois]

In that particular situation the primary objective is holding on to the ball!!! The secondary objective is to run the clock!!! The third objective is to make a first down.

 

 

It was SECOND DOWN and FIVE. you never throw the ball when you have 2 downs to make a first down and want to run out the clock, even if both fail you can still punt it away..

 

Exactly!

 

A RollOut covers all of that, chews up more time. If the coverage was there... Why didn't he protect the ball there? Everybody is screaming pass... He didn't even pass the damn ball.

 

The one time we need his "Tulane instincts" and he blows it.

 

He is a "broken horse."

[KD in CA]

Again you're conveniently ignoring Losman's four straight completions which set up the rushing TD earlier in the fourth.

 

I'm conveniently forgotting that he managed to not to f*&k up four straight dump offs? Ohhhhh.....I hope it's not too late to get him in the Pro Bowl! Is that like you conveniently forgetting the first 3 and a half quarters? And last week? And 2005-2007?

 

The guy did not complete a SINGLE PASS longer than nine yards downfield. Including RAC, his longest play was TWELVE YARDS! Outside of the two INTs he threw at the end, I don't recall even an attempt longer than ten yards. That means he was basically 60% at throwing dump offs all game. And if you watched the game, you saw how many of them were simply terrible throws.

 

To risk the game put putting him in that situation is not even close to defensible.

[Gordio]

I agree...mostly.

 

While I don't think JP is "one of the mentally slowest QBs to ever play the game", the guy hasn't shown a high degree of mental acuity, and seems to fumble whenever he is hit, recently.

 

IMO, ou don't make that call with ANY QB, and certainly not with JP...not when your running game is controlling the game, and you are simply trying to run out the clock, and hold on to the win.

 

Someone needs to be fired, IMO, for simply being that mother fuc#ing stupid.

 

This is not true dean. You do make this call with alot of qbs. But shame on the coaches for not knowing their personal. JP Losman is the dumbest mother f*cking qb in this whole league. This guy is borderline retarded. U truly believe this. Shame on the coaches for not knowing this & putting the game in his hands when Lynch could of just as easily chewed up the remainder of this clock. One thing good might have come out of this. This may have been the straw that broke wilson's back in regards to Jauron. Noway he could bring him back after this debacle.

 

As for JP the retard, he is going to have a tough time hooking onto a team next year. I do not see him on an NFL roster come next fall. This guy is just to stupid to be a qb.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Huh? A coach can't think "my QB is terrible but the other guys can't stop my rushing attack"?

 

 

And by the time we got to the 4Q today, was there anyone left who thought that JP still belonged on this team, or in the NFL?

 

 

 

If this was anyone but you, I'd presume this was a goof.

 

You still have to give him a chance to lead... He had a game to finish. Of course I don't believe he belongs in the league.

 

What does winning this game do?

 

Anyway... Who would you rather see in the playoffs... I think I will puke if the Fins win the division... The lesser of the three evils is the NY Jets... IMO...

[SectionC3]

So you don't think a 5th year QB should be responsible for making decisions to hold on to a lead? The extent morons will go to make excuses for Losman is astounding.

 

I agree with where I think you're going.

 

Most fans excoriated Jauron and the staff for sitting on the ball at the end of the Cleveland game. Today, he made a mildly gutsy call to try to WIN THE GAME and he's getting killed for it.

 

Look at it this way: we had two or three nice runs before the ill-fated waggle. DJ tried to put the ball in the hands of a QB with wheels to get him outside, take the cheap flick to the TE if it's there, and if not pick up a yard or two (while staying in bounds and rolling the clock) to set up a 3rd and 3-ish. If he completes that pass for a first down, it's basically lights out, and the time to call the waggle was perfect. We just had an idiot QB run the play, and I think DJ said as much in the post-game by stating something like "I can't put [A FIFTH-YEAR, FORMER FIRST ROUND QUARTERBACK] in that position."

 

I'm still on the fire DJ team, but I understand the play call and credit him for being a stand up guy and refusing to publicly put JP in his rightful place beneath the tires of the bus. If you don't like the series at the end of the Cleveland game (I'm one of those people), you can't bash DJ for showing some nuts and trust in the waste from Tulane and trying to win the game.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Well, yes there is, in fact.

 

There was no clock to eat. The two minute warning was coming in 6 seconds. The play was going to end in a stoppage of time, regardless. To say we needed to run there to eat up the clock is, fundamentally, wrong.

 

 

That pass may have not taken 6 sec off the clock. If it was incomplete with 2:01 left, whatever we do on 3rd down would result in a clock stop after and the Jets would still have 3 timeouts. Even if we run right into the line for no gain on 2nd and 3rd down, they'd have to burn 1 timeout and would have to drive 60 or so yards and score a TD to WIN.

[TheChimp]

That pass may have not taken 6 sec off the clock. If it was incomplete with 2:01 left, whatever we do on 3rd down would result in a clock stop after and the Jets would still have 3 timeouts. Even if we run right into the line for no gain on 2nd and 3rd down, they'd have to burn 1 timeout and would have to drive 60 or so yards and score a TD to WIN.

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KD in CA]

That pass may have not taken 6 sec off the clock.

 

Yes, but you can solve that by making sure JP holds onto the ball for at least six seconds.

[The Big Cat]

That pass may have not taken 6 sec off the clock. If it was incomplete with 2:01 left, whatever we do on 3rd down would result in a clock stop after and the Jets would still have 3 timeouts. Even if we run right into the line for no gain on 2nd and 3rd down, they'd have to burn 1 timeout and would have to drive 60 or so yards and score a TD to WIN.

 

 

JP went down with 2:02 left on the clock. A well executed pass play would have gotten them under 2:00 easily. It would have been highly unlikely for the ball to be ruled incomplete by 2:01.

 

And no, they would have had 2 TO's. The whole reason this dispute is taking place is because of the TO they burned at 2:06.

 

EDIT: They only needed 3 for the tie.

[twist_to_open]

Knowing that about JP. Knowing why you benched him for a rookie. Yet, you still put the game in his hands? So, who's to blame here? JP for doing what he does or the coaches for letting him do it?

I think you hit the nail on the head....it wasnt the right play with the people you had out there.

[ExiledInIllinois]

No F'ing way that was a designed run that JP "decided" to throw the ball on insead of follow the script.

 

No. I am saying the opposite. It was designed a rollout... Except on a rollout... The Qb is expected to analyze the play... Why didn't he feel the pressure and protect the ball. He could have clearly seen that things were going south on the play and decide to bury it himself WHICH IS THE SAME AS A RUN.

 

He did not protect the ball when things broke down plain and simple.

 

IMO, follows the script too much.

[thewildrabbit]

Exactly!

 

A RollOut covers all of that, chews up more time. If the coverage was there... Why didn't he protect the ball there? Everybody is screaming pass... He didn't even pass the damn ball.

 

The one time we need his "Tulane instincts" and he blows it.

 

He is a "broken horse."

It was a play fake run,then roll out. If you really look at the play how is the QB supposed to know the tackle (#71) completely missed his block and the DT is running him down from behind,any QB would have most likely done just what JP did when hit from behind.

 

IF ANYTHING,the OC has a mic and the QB has a headset in his helmet,why didn't the OC just yell to throw it away asap?

 

Oh wait,its the same retard that called a play fake pass when they needed to run

[jad1]

Well, yes there is, in fact.

 

There was no clock to eat. The two minute warning was coming in 6 seconds. The play was going to end in a stoppage of time, regardless. To say we needed to run there to eat up the clock is, fundamentally, wrong.

 

Yeah, and after the two minute warning the Bills would have 2 more plays to run, right? So even if Lynch and/or Jackson can't average the necessary 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down, that's another time out the Jets would burn leaving them with one.

 

Mormon would switch the field on them, and they would have to drive the field with one time out with about a 1:30 left. Keep in mind that the Bills completely shut down the Jets in the 4th quarter.

 

So, AGAIN, do you put the game in Lynch/Jackson and possibly the defenses hands, or do you put it in Losman's hands, who has proven to be a total f$%k up as a qb?

 

That's why you're wrong. With the way that game played out in the fourth, there's no way you pick Losman in that situation. No freakin' way.

[TheChimp]

Yeah, and after the two minute warning the Bills would have 2 more plays to run, right? So even if Lynch and/or Jackson can't average the necessary 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down, that's another time out the Jets would burn leaving them with one.

 

Mormon would switch the field on them, and they would have to drive the field with one time out with about a 1:30 left. Keep in mind that the Bills completely shut down the Jets in the 4th quarter.

 

So, AGAIN, do you put the game in Lynch/Jackson and possibly the defenses hands, or do you put it in Losman's hands, who has proven to be a total f$%k up as a qb?

 

That's why you're wrong. With the way that game played out in the fourth, there's no way you pick Losman in that situation. No freakin' way.

You do realize that you're arguing against Dick Jauron's grandmother, right?

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

No. I am saying the opposite. It was designed a rollout... Except on a rollout... The Qb is expected to analyze the play... Why didn't he feel the pressure and protect the ball. He could have clearly seen that things were going south on the play and decide to bury it himself WHICH IS THE SAME AS A RUN.

 

He did not protect the ball when things broke down plain and simple.

 

IMO, follows the script too much.

 

 

So why not go "idiot proof" and just RUN! Thats what I hate about our coaches in recent years and those who defend them. We have no sense of the "flow" of the game and always seem to try and go cute in the worst situations and go completely predictable when we could use a little "safe" creativity. Sorry for my constant "use" of the ""'s. I'm kinda "drunk"

[dave mcbride]

I agree -- I thought it was a great call. But no blocking, and Losman screwed it up.

Yes, it was a good call. It worked against the Jags, and the Bills should have done it against the Browns. You can't sit on the ball and play not to lose. Losman is simply terrible.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Well, yes there is, in fact.

 

There was no clock to eat. The two minute warning was coming in 6 seconds. The play was going to end in a stoppage of time, regardless. To say we needed to run there to eat up the clock is, fundamentally, wrong.

 

True.

 

A rollout takes there take you BELOW the 2... A run in the middle, IMO... Takes you right to the 2 exactly.

 

Sure I am splitting hairs with 4 or 5 seconds... The play call should be just as good as a run... I don't blame DJ for being positive to the end either.

[Beerball]

Wow, lots of opinions, might as well throw mine in there.

 

I read through page six and I didn't see Jason Peters name anywhere. Shame on everyone of you. He wiffed on the db that blitzed and ruined the play. If I missed a mention my apologies, but I didn't see it.

 

 

IF you are a normal NFL team that play is the one where you run. 2:06 left. After the play the clock is going to stop so no difference between a run and pass. We aren't a normal NFL team. Our left tackle wiffed as previously mentioned and our QB is to brains what Dick is to personality.

[jad1]

Yes, it was a good call. It worked against the Jags, and the Bills should have done it against the Browns. You can't sit on the ball and play not to lose. Losman is simply terrible.

 

It's not a secret that Losman is terrible. That doesn't play into the decision-making process?

 

Again, who would you have picked to try to close out the game? Lynch/Jackson or Losman?

[The Big Cat]

That's why you're wrong. With the way that game played out in the fourth, there's no way you pick Losman in that situation. No freakin' way.

 

Oh, you mean how Losman completed each of his four passes prior to that play?

 

You guys make it seem as though it was a CERTAINTY that Losman would have coughed it up and that the defense would have recovered and scored.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I agree with where I think you're going.

 

Most fans excoriated Jauron and the staff for sitting on the ball at the end of the Cleveland game. Today, he made a mildly gutsy call to try to WIN THE GAME and he's getting killed for it.

 

Look at it this way: we had two or three nice runs before the ill-fated waggle. DJ tried to put the ball in the hands of a QB with wheels to get him outside, take the cheap flick to the TE if it's there, and if not pick up a yard or two (while staying in bounds and rolling the clock) to set up a 3rd and 3-ish. If he completes that pass for a first down, it's basically lights out, and the time to call the waggle was perfect. We just had an idiot QB run the play, and I think DJ said as much in the post-game by stating something like "I can't put [A FIFTH-YEAR, FORMER FIRST ROUND QUARTERBACK] in that position."

 

I'm still on the fire DJ team, but I understand the play call and credit him for being a stand up guy and refusing to publicly put JP in his rightful place beneath the tires of the bus. If you don't like the series at the end of the Cleveland game (I'm one of those people), you can't bash DJ for showing some nuts and trust in the waste from Tulane and trying to win the game.

 

Give this fella a cigar!

 

[The Big Cat]

Wow, lots of opinions, might as well throw mine in there.

 

I read through page six and I didn't see Jason Peters name anywhere. Shame on everyone of you. He wiffed on the db that blitzed and ruined the play. If I missed a mention my apologies, but I didn't see it.

 

 

IF you are a normal NFL team that play is the one where you run. 2:06 left. After the play the clock is going to stop so no difference between a run and pass. We aren't a normal NFL team. Our left tackle wiffed as previously mentioned and our QB is to brains what Dick is to personality.

 

Link

 

Link

[BB2004]

I was shocked at the play call and of course would have been alright with a sack as long as we are able to hold on to the ball. Fortunately it did not cost us our season but really unbelieveable.

[TheChimp]

Hilarious. The JP bashers are defending, DEFENDING the coaches for giving the ball to JP in the most crucial situation of the game, when a pass was the dumbest possible play call. Let's re-cap. You hate JP and know why you hate him. But the coaches obviously disagree with you, and think, hey, JP can totally win the game for us here, and you defend them?

 

 

I love this place.