truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Mike Williams (02', 4th overall), JP Losman (04', 22nd overall) and now McCargo (06', 26th overall.) Three 1st round busts in the last 5 drafts who played long enough to draw a conclusion. Geez, let's just hope McKelvin works out and breaks the string of 1st round busts every even year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Mike Williams (02', 4th overall), JP Losman (04', 22nd overall) and now McCargo (06' 26th overall.) All 1st round busts in the last 6 drafts. That's one 1st round bust every other year. Geesh, let's just hope McKelvin works out and breaks the string of 1st round busts every even year. According to Polian - 1/3 of all 1st rounders do not pan out as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsD#1in2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 uhh lets see though...Whitner, Lynch, Leodis is good on kick returns....but we are getting better just look at the last 2 drafts as far as complete drafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 According to Polian - 1/3 of all 1st rounders do not pan out as expected. Whitner - star McCargo - bust Lynch - star Marv has done us well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 uhh lets see though...Whitner, Lynch, Leodis is good on kick returns....but we are getting better just look at the last 2 drafts as far as complete drafts Go back to 03' and you also had Willis McGahee and I think given he missed his entire rookie season and he's no longer here, he's kind of a bust too. I think the brightest spot was Evans in 04'(14th overall.) The thing that's troubling about McCargo is his selection came in the Jauron-era, whereas the gimmicky picks of McGahee and Losman, and biggest (and fattest) bust of all, Williams, were all Donahoe era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 biggest (and fattest) bust of all, McCargo, were all Donahoe era. McCargo was Levy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 McCargo was Levy. sorry, corrected to Williams in original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Go back to 03' and you also had Willis McGahee and I think given he missed his entire rookie season and he's no longer here, he's kind of a bust too. I think the brightest spot was Evans in 04'(14th overall.) The thing that's troubling about McCargo is his selection came in the Jauron-era, whereas the gimmicky picks of McGahee and Losman, and biggest (and fattest) bust of all, Williams, were all Donahoe era. I think it is not fair to compare the son of satan's regime to the ones of marv and russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Tom Donahoe was bad at 1st round picks. I think Marv and DJ get the benefit of the doubt. You can't hit on them all. Whitner and Lynch seem to be great picks. McCargo sucks. We're fortunate to get a 4th round pick, considering he probably doesn't play and would have been cut in the offseason. Mike Williams (02', 4th overall), JP Losman (04', 22nd overall) and now McCargo (06', 26th overall.) Three 1st round busts in the last 5 drafts who played long enough to draw a conclusion. Geez, let's just hope McKelvin works out and breaks the string of 1st round busts every even year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Go back to 03' and you also had Willis McGahee and I think given he missed his entire rookie season and he's no longer here, he's kind of a bust too. I think the brightest spot was Evans in 04'(14th overall.) The thing that's troubling about McCargo is his selection came in the Jauron-era, whereas the gimmicky picks of McGahee and Losman, and biggest (and fattest) bust of all, Williams, were all Donahoe era. Willis is no longer here but Trent is here in his place so I guess you don't like Trent if you call the drafting of Willis a bust. Let's hope they draft a good player with the pick they got from Indy for McCargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Willis is no longer here but Trent is here in his place so I guess you don't like Trent if you call the drafting of Willis a bust. Let's hope they draft a good player with the pick they got from Indy for McCargo. They would have had many chances at Trent even without the pick from Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Speed Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Go back to 03' and you also had Willis McGahee and I think given he missed his entire rookie season and he's no longer here, he's kind of a bust too. I think the brightest spot was Evans in 04'(14th overall.) The thing that's troubling about McCargo is his selection came in the Jauron-era, whereas the gimmicky picks of McGahee and Losman, and biggest (and fattest) bust of all, Williams, were all Donahoe era. i think we can guess that jd1 meant that mike williams was the infamous big-fat bust, since he was such a high pick, and tipped the scales at over 500.. er.. i mean 400 pounds(is there really that much difference?? ) at times. given TDs track record, and the fact that we now seem to have a special QB, yeah, i'd say lets give marv a break. i never liked the mccargo pick from the start, but they had to be thinking "OMG, we better find a relacement for pat williams or else". of course the gamble didn't pay off, but they did come up with kyle, who mans pat's old post in serviceable fashion. so in a sense, they more or less got that job accomplished, but not at all in the way they expected. of course, getting a 4th round pick for your recent 1st round tradeup feels like.. trading suzy kolber for a pack of condoms. however, if suzy wouldn't actually kiss you, that would pretty much force your hand. (OMG, like ZERO pun intended there !!) AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Whitner - starMcCargo - bust Lynch - star Marv has done us well. Looks like he hit the average to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The Bills aren't that bad overall with their own 1st round picks over the past years. It is when we try to use somebody else's first rounder that we get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Looks like he hit the average to me. Alright. This thread is solved. What else can we cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Looks like he hit the average to me. At this point I'd say a more realistic assessment is: Whitner = solid, but definitely not another palamolou McCargo = bust Lynch = great rookie season but struggling a bit in 2nd year. jury remains outstanding on "star" potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 At this point I'd say a more realistic assessment is: Whitner = solid, but definitely not another palamolou McCargo = bust Lynch = great rookie season but struggling a bit in 2nd year. jury remains outstanding on "star" potential As long as they help the team win on sunday it was a good pick IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 As long as they help the team win on sunday it was a good pick IMO What about trading Bledsoe for our 1st round pick in 03'? Do you feel that was a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 While the focus is on first round picks you also have to look at what is done in the other rounds and what the team does to sign undrafted free agents. Marv picked up Ko Simpson. Keith Ellison, Brad Butler, Trent Edwards Kyle Williams, John Wendling, Fred Jackson and PaulPozlusny outside of the first round. McCargo proved to be a bust. Time to say goodbye at least we don't just cut him and get nothing in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Mike Williams (02', 4th overall), JP Losman (04', 22nd overall) and now McCargo (06', 26th overall.) Three 1st round busts in the last 5 drafts who played long enough to draw a conclusion. Geez, let's just hope McKelvin works out and breaks the string of 1st round busts every even year. The last 5 drafts..... 2004 Lee Evans(13) 2005 -none- 2006 Donte Whitner(8) 2006 John McCargo(26) 2007 Marshawn Lynch(12) 2008 Leotis McKelvin(11) Last 5 drafts don't look too bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Looks like he hit the average to me. The average 1st round hit/bust ratio is nowhere near 2 in 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The last 5 drafts.....2004 Lee Evans(13) 2005 -none- 2006 Donte Whitner(8) 2006 John McCargo(26) 2007 Marshawn Lynch(12) 2008 Leotis McKelvin(11) Last 5 drafts don't look too bad to me. You left out the biggest bust of the last 5 years-the one 1st rounder who set the franchise back 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 You left out the biggest bust of the last 5 years-the one 1st rounder who set the franchise back 3 years. Yes, he left out the bearded bounce passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 You left out the biggest bust of the last 5 years-the one 1st rounder who set the franchise back 3 years. Heh.....old JPL.....how could I have forgotten him 2004 J.P. Losman(22) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Whitner - star The fact that you spent $225 on his jersey does not make him a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear mods, can we please add an automated response that states, "If somebody is going to make a case that Bills' a) management b) players c) team d) fans are a) great b) good c) mediocre d) sucky it should be done in comparison with the NFL as a whole. (Preferrably with a standard deviation that regresses to a mean of 3.5)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The last 5 drafts.....2004 Lee Evans(13) 2005 -none- 2006 Donte Whitner(8) 2006 John McCargo(26) 2007 Marshawn Lynch(12) 2008 Leotis McKelvin(11) Last 5 drafts don't look too bad to me. No love for JP, or do you pretend that never happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 After I did an extensive study of the draft for the past 10 years for a game I was helping to work on, I can tell you that THE BEST GM's get their first round picks right about 50% of the time(actually it was about 46-48%)...our rate doesn't look too bad over the past few years, so I can't say its anything out of the ordinary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The fact that you spent $225 on his jersey does not make him a star. No, but the fact that many people around the league consider him to be one, does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The Bills aren't that bad overall with their own 1st round picks over the past years. It is when we try to use somebody else's first rounder that we get in trouble. Yeah, they need to wait into the 2nd round instead, maybe the 2nd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I look at it this way, a couple of our 1st round picks COULD HAVE been 2nd round picks (Losman, McCargo). Sure you hear rumors that someone would have picked them early if we had not moved up, but who cares, draft the best guy available. I hate the latter half of the first round. I'd pick in the second or third round twice instead of having a pick lower than #15 in the first round. Teams start to get nutty and start reaching then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 No, but the fact that many people around the league consider him to be one, does. Looks like you've been reading too much Chris Brown. Folks around the league regard him as a good young player. A star? Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Looks like you've been reading too much Chris Brown. Folks around the league regard him as a good young player. A star? Hardly. Buffalo has done a good jobs of drafting a plethora of solid starters, but has failed to draft any stars. What drafted player on our roster is among the top 5 at their position. So the bills draft grade under the Levy/Brandon adminstration is a solid B. This team needs a more play makers. At this point, Evans is the only one I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I look at it this way, a couple of our 1st round picks COULD HAVE been 2nd round picks (Losman, McCargo). Sure you hear rumors that someone would have picked them early if we had not moved up, but who cares, draft the best guy available. I hate the latter half of the first round. I'd pick in the second or third round twice instead of having a pick lower than #15 in the first round. Teams start to get nutty and start reaching then. I think you are right on the money. The talent in the draft changges from year to year, so sometimes a great prospect can be found late in the first. Many times however, the players drafted in the 2nd and 3rd have a similar grades to those drafted at the end of the first. More picks equals more chances of hitting on a good player. Even as good as Poz has been, David Harris would have been great with our pick in the 2nd two years ago. So more times than not, a 2nd a 3rd is better than late 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 John Pitts, Al Cowlings,Walt Patulski, Reuben Gant, Tom Ruud etc... the list keep going and going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanahan's Horseshoe Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 No, but the fact that many people around the league consider him to be one, does. What "people"? Leader does not equal "star". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 What "people"? Leader does not equal "star". This board is ready to enshrine the guy in Canton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I think it is not fair to compare the son of satan's regime to the ones of marv and russ. I have no problem with Donahoe's drafts, just his selection of coaches. TD drafted all of these players, who I consider to be very good NFL players: Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jennings, Denney, Reed, Bannan, McGahee, Kelsay (a favorite whipping boy, but who I think is a solid player), McGee, Crowell, Aiken (ST stud), Hagan (ST stud), Parrish, Preston, Evans, and Eric King (who I think is getting good PT in Tenn). He busted on Mike Williams, but Williams was the smart choice and the 2002 draft at the top was terrible. I'm not sure you're going to see many drafts better than TD's first one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I can't see any pro-bowl, because of the talent and team improvements, 1st rounders we have on the team this entire decade. The closest you get is Lee, but Lee is not a pro-bowler, let alone "star". We have a good team, but it's good all-around, not because of a single player that dominates their position that really stands out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 .....TD drafted all of these players, who I consider to be very good NFL players: Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jennings, Denney, Reed, Bannan, McGahee, Kelsay (a favorite whipping boy, but who I think is a solid player), McGee, Crowell, Aiken (ST stud), Hagan (ST stud), Parrish, Preston, Evans, and Eric King (who I think is getting good PT in Tenn)..... Since we are strictly talking about drafted players I'd say 'yes' TD was not quite as bad as many believe. However, it's always an individual thing grading players. IMO, character & injury have to be taken into consideration. Going through your list..... Clements, Schobel, McGee & Evans.....all four are very good NFL players I think Aiken, Hagan & Parrish are very good situational NFL players Decent starter/good backups.....Denney, Reed, Kelsay, Crowell, King(maybe) Bannan took way too long to develop for the drafting team. Henry & McGahee had serious issues which ended simply wasting time & resources for the drafting team. Jennings overall injury prone Preston - NO In 5 drafts TD drafted 4 good starters......and 3 OK starters.....with a handful of either backup, serviceable or situational players. In the first 2 post TD drafts.....4 good starters(Whitner, Lynch, Poz, Edwards).....4 OK starters(Williams, Simpson, Butler, Ellison).....and a couple of backup/serviceable or situational players. IMO TD had 'tread water' level drafts overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts