**THUD!**

[Pete]

I'm talking about the past 15 years. In fact, they've been mostly zone coverage since pre-Super Bowl era, and went to 4 Super Bowls without a #1 draft pick playing at corner, and were beaten 4 times by teams that believed the best pass defense was a great pass rush.

 

And as far as last season, I gotta disagree on that one, NE couldn't have beaten the Bills worse than they did the second time last year. They scored a TD on the first 7-8 posessions.

 

My issue is that the Bills need to either pay their first round corners, or find them later like they did with McGee and Greer. If you use a first rounder on a guy, and he pans out, he should be worth retaining, even if you have to overpay because you waited until the end of their contract to renew them. The Bills are terribly thin on the OL and do not rush the passer well from the DL. Having a lot of corners is nice, but you build from the inside out and the inside ain't done. The Bills have had more success drafting corners on day 2 than they have lineman.

what about Nate Odomes and JD Williams? Plus Henry Jones- those Superbowl teams put a premium on secondary

[Sisyphean Bills]

what about Nate Odomes and JD Williams? Plus Henry Jones- those Superbowl teams put a premium on secondary

 

Odomes was a 2nd rounder. [Correction] Burroughs was a 1st rounder; 2nd 1st rounder taken that year. Jones is the only guy that they've kept around in the last 20 years, not letting him walk in free agency rather than pay the going freight. The Bills are just plain horrendous at keeping their own secondary players, preferring to be a farm team for the rest of the NFL. Williams was a complete whiff.

 

Let's see: Burroughs broke his neck; Odomes went to Seattle; Williams was a bust; Jones - All Pro stayed his entire productive career; Wren?; Schulz ended up in Detroit; Smith, buh-bye; Burris jumped to Colts; Irvin went to the Saints; Kerner, later dude; Stevens ended up bouncing around the NFL; Winfield to Vikings; Clements to 49ers; Tillman was a bust; Wire broke his neck; Youboty looks like a bust ... leaving Whitner, Simpson, and McKelvin.

[Lurker]

Odomes was a 2nd rounder, as was Burroughs. Jones is the only guy that they've kept around in the last 20 years, not letting him walk in free agency rather than pay the going freight. The Bills are just plain horrendous at keeping their own secondary players, preferring to be a farm team for the rest of the NFL. Williams was a complete whiff.

I wonder how those SB teams would've fared if FA and the cap had been around back then...

[BADOLBILZ]

what about Nate Odomes and JD Williams? Plus Henry Jones- those Superbowl teams put a premium on secondary

 

I'm not talking about the secondary, I'm talking about the pedigree of corners. Nate was a second rounder. He was the top corner on those teams. Williams was a bust. Derrick Borroughs was a Bill Polian first rounder, but had to retire prior to the SB run. Cornerbacks were NOT the foundation of the franchise when it was good. Not even close. And they weren't why they got beaten in those Super Bowls. You'd think the track reccord would speak for itself, but the organization remains fixated on the position. Counting JD.....6 corners in 18 years? The Bills defiine the 3 aspects of football as Cornerback, Defense and Special teams.

[Orton's Arm]

I bet he's actually kind of glad to get it over with. We won't need to go cornerback in round 1 for the next 3 years or so.

 

5 first round corners the past 15 drafts. Lost the previous 4 in free agency. That's how they do's it.

5 first round CBs in the last 15 drafts? No wonder why this team has had so many holes--CB is like an open wound that causes us to bleed first round picks. When Leodis' name was announced, I thought to myself, here is a guy who will make a solid contribution to the Bills for the next 5 years (6 if we're lucky) and then jump to some other team. I would be happy about this pick if I thought there was at least some chance we'd extend this guy. But we won't.

[Dibs]

5 first round CBs in the last 15 drafts? No wonder why this team has had so many holes--CB is like an open wound that causes us to bleed first round picks. When Leodis' name was announced, I thought to myself, here is a guy who will make a solid contribution to the Bills for the next 5 years (6 if we're lucky) and then jump to some other team. I would be happy about this pick if I thought there was at least some chance we'd extend this guy. But we won't.

How do you know? Different management....different scheme.....different players.

[Orton's Arm]

How do you know? Different management....different scheme.....different players.

This is basically the same group that let Clements walk.

[Dibs]

This is basically the same group that let Clements walk.

You are not seriously arguing that paying NC the money necessary to keep him would have been a wise thing to do are you?

[eball]

5 first round CBs in the last 15 drafts? No wonder why this team has had so many holes--CB is like an open wound that causes us to bleed first round picks. When Leodis' name was announced, I thought to myself, here is a guy who will make a solid contribution to the Bills for the next 5 years (6 if we're lucky) and then jump to some other team. I would be happy about this pick if I thought there was at least some chance we'd extend this guy. But we won't.

If that's the case, it's a GREAT pick.

[BADOLBILZ]

If that's the case, it's a GREAT pick.

 

Wrong. I'll give you an example: Sam Cowart was not a GREAT draft pick even though he really was a great player for a few seasons. Good pick high in the second round.....sure. But no longevity. Flozell Adams was picked immediately before Cowart, he is still playing and doing so at a near Pro Bowl level. THAT was a GREAT pick.

 

There is a reason why Parcells took Jake Long, high picks should be the foundation of an organization. The foundation should be guys who have a legitimate chance to be there for a decade. Guys to build around. The Bills don't get that. We are so used to drafting in the upper half of round 1 now that we don't view the 11th pick as a very high pick, but it is. The Bills went the entire decade of the 1990's with a pick that high only once(traded for Rob Johnson).

 

It astounds me how people can't see this. They are so patient about giving Donahoe/Marv/Brandon time to gradually rebuild, all the while ignoring the fact that if the coach doesn't work out, then it's time to rebuild again without ever getting a solid foundation in place.

 

The Bills are one injury away from complete collapse on the O-Line. They were a very healthy unit last year, like the whole team had been the year before that. Kirk Chambers is the top backup.

 

The D-Line has one pass rusher who is coming off a poor season by his standards and they are banking on an old DT with injury and suspension issues to anchor their defense. Yet here they are drafting another guy in round 1 who will not be on the team in 5 years regardless of health or production. And people wonder why every few years or so the roster seems bereft of talent.

[MDH]

You are not seriously arguing that paying NC the money necessary to keep him would have been a wise thing to do are you?

 

If the Bills would have paid Clements two years ago (before he entered the last year of his contract) it wouldn't have cost nearly so much. But the arguement then was, "we don't need a top flight CB with this D scheme." Yet here the Bills are again using a first round pick on a CB. Why not pay Nate two years ago instead of running on the treadmill?

[KRC]

Hi guys......I am out at the Emergency Room.

The doctors said I am going to be OK.

As soon as I heard that the Bills picked a CB in round one, I immediatly thought that I would be logging on to a paver fund thread.

 

Glad you're OK, Bill!!

[Bill from NYC]

Wrong. I'll give you an example: Sam Cowart was not a GREAT draft pick even though he really was a great player for a few seasons. Good pick high in the second round.....sure. But no longevity. Flozell Adams was picked immediately before Cowart, he is still playing and doing so at a near Pro Bowl level. THAT was a GREAT pick.

 

There is a reason why Parcells took Jake Long, high picks should be the foundation of an organization. The foundation should be guys who have a legitimate chance to be there for a decade. Guys to build around. The Bills don't get that. We are so used to drafting in the upper half of round 1 now that we don't view the 11th pick as a very high pick, but it is. The Bills went the entire decade of the 1990's with a pick that high only once(traded for Rob Johnson).

 

It astounds me how people can't see this. They are so patient about giving Donahoe/Marv/Brandon time to gradually rebuild, all the while ignoring the fact that if the coach doesn't work out, then it's time to rebuild again without ever getting a solid foundation in place.

 

The Bills are one injury away from complete collapse on the O-Line. They were a very healthy unit last year, like the whole team had been the year before that. Kirk Chambers is the top backup.

 

The D-Line has one pass rusher who is coming off a poor season by his standards and they are banking on an old DT with injury and suspension issues to anchor their defense. Yet here they are drafting another guy in round 1 who will not be on the team in 5 years regardless of health or production. And people wonder why every few years or so the roster seems bereft of talent.

 

Truer words were never spoken.

[Sisyphean Bills]

If that's the case, it's a GREAT pick.

Do you mean it is a "GREAT pick" as compared to the alternative of a complete bust ala Mike Williams? If McKelvin is another outright bust, the Bills could be picking the #1 overall pick in short order. Hell, they might be doing that anyway.

 

I don't understand the "GREAT"ness of being an NFL farm team. The Bills usually pick above average to excellent CBs, push them into the starting lineup early, suffer through their growing pains as they adjust to the NFL game, and let them hit free agency and kick them out the door right in the middle of their most productive years without so much as a second thought.

[Stenbar]

what about Nate Odomes and JD Williams? Plus Henry Jones- those Superbowl teams put a premium on secondary

JD Williams is a bad example..I woulda left that one out...

[Bill from NYC]

Do you mean it is a "GREAT pick" as compared to the alternative of a complete bust ala Mike Williams? If McKelvin is another outright bust, the Bills could be picking the #1 overall pick in short order.

 

I don't understand the "GREAT"ness of being an NFL farm team. The Bills usually pick above average to excellent CBs, push them into the starting lineup early, suffer through their growing pains as they adjust to the NFL game, and let them hit free agency and kick them out the door right in the middle of their most productive years without so much as a second thought.

 

Nor do I, but this is the situation we are in. It really is sad to watch this history of idiocy repeat itself.

 

Several years ago, SDS declared that he was "more of a fan of Bills Fans than a fan of the Bills." That quote stayed with me, and I fully agree. Bills Fans in general are a great bunch of people who stay loyal to a team which is, and has been run by second rate football people for quite some time. And yes, this includes Levy, our 82 year old "consultant."

I seriously believe that being a Bills Fan makes one a stronger, and more loyal person. I see it in my daughters.

 

I will never give up hope that some day, our day will come. They can make every stupid move they can dredge up on draft day and it will sicken me, but I will never turn my back on this team as long as I am alive.

 

I hope our latest 1st round defensive back works for us. We deserve it. Keep your fingers crossed that we don't waste another 1st rounder on a db in 09. But.....don't bet on it.

[BillsVet]

Nor do I, but this is the situation we are in. It really is sad to watch this history of idiocy repeat itself.

 

Several years ago, SDS declared that he was "more of a fan of Bills Fans than a fan of the Bills." That quote stayed with me, and I fully agree. Bills Fans in general are a great bunch of people who stay loyal to a team which is, and has been run by second rate football people for quite some time. And yes, this includes Levy, our 82 year old "consultant."

I seriously believe that being a Bills Fan makes one a stronger, and more loyal person. I see it in my daughters.

 

I will never give up hope that some day, our day will come. They can make every stupid move they can dredge up on draft day and it will sicken me, but I will never turn my back on this team as long as I am alive.

 

I hope our latest 1st round defensive back works for us. We deserve it. Keep your fingers crossed that we don't waste another 1st rounder on a db in 09. But.....don't bet on it.

 

I, like many on this board, thought of you yesterday Bill. Without having met you, I know you weren't thrilled.

 

I have a hard time standing idly by, having season tickets, and seeing the philosophy of this team so flawed. Having no GM, and worse, no plan for the future of the franchise (at least publicized) and a HC with a terrible career record can be daunting.

 

But alas, I will remain a Bills fan, because what else is there?

[BADOLBILZ]

You are not seriously arguing that paying NC the money necessary to keep him would have been a wise thing to do are you?

 

Do you mean wise like paying Larry Triplett $5M per year to do nothing? Overpaying Robert Royal and Peerless Price? How about drafting an undersized safety so high you have to make him the highest paid player in team history before he ever took a snap? Or even paying two huge free agent OL $12M per year to pass block only?

 

The Bills had a good thing going with Clements. A very young(26), outstanding in all phases of the game, DURABLE cornerback who Fewell had developed a pass defense around with remarkable success. Clements 2006 season got Kelsay and Schobel paid. Without him, their coverage sack opportunities went out the window in 2007, further exposing the lack of push from the interior. Pass defense went from 7th in the NFL to near the bottom. Yeah, not paying Clements was a mistake.

 

For years they've overdrafted corners, wasting that talent in zone schemes, and they finally found a way to truly utilize the best one they've had in 30 years, maybe ever, and they let him walk to save a couple mill per season. A couple mill they just might throw at a washed up, out of the league receiver like Peerless Price on any given day. Then, back to the trough they go in round 1.

 

Two years from now, when Schobel and Kelsay are petering out, Stroud and Denney are retired and the Bills are hurting on the OL we're going to wonder how the Bills went from having all the holes in the roster filled to being personnel bankrupt in just 2 offseasons.

[BillsVet]

Hard to believe the Bills are almost 22M beneath the cap. And fans around here are worried about a few million.

 

Amazing. Then again, that's par for the course.

[Ramius]

Do you mean wise like paying Larry Triplett $5M per year to do nothing? Overpaying Robert Royal and Peerless Price? How about drafting an undersized safety so high you have to make him the highest paid player in team history before he ever took a snap? Or even paying two huge free agent OL $12M per year to pass block only?

 

The Bills had a good thing going with Clements. A very young(26), outstanding in all phases of the game, DURABLE cornerback who Fewell had developed a pass defense around with remarkable success. Clements 2006 season got Kelsay and Schobel paid. Without him, their coverage sack opportunities went out the window in 2007, further exposing the lack of push from the interior. Pass defense went from 7th in the NFL to near the bottom. Yeah, not paying Clements was a mistake.

 

For years they've overdrafted corners, wasting that talent in zone schemes, and they finally found a way to truly utilize the best one they've had in 30 years, maybe ever, and they let him walk to save a couple mill per season. A couple mill they just might throw at a washed up, out of the league receiver like Peerless Price on any given day. Then, back to the trough they go in round 1.

 

Two years from now, when Schobel and Kelsay are petering out, Stroud and Denney are retired and the Bills are hurting on the OL we're going to wonder how the Bills went from having all the holes in the roster filled to being personnel bankrupt in just 2 offseasons.

 

Larry tripplett signed a 5 yr 18 million contract. Please explain how that equals 5 million per year. I'm not saying that tripplett wasnt garbage and a bust, because he was, but no need to make things up.