**THUD!**

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hard to believe the Bills are almost 22M beneath the cap. And fans around here are worried about a few million.

 

Amazing. Then again, that's par for the course.

The Bills could have, if they wanted, made Nate a fair, significant, and decent offer before he hit free agency and before he got his panties all bunched about being tagged. It's not impossible; indeed, it happens all of the time on other teams with their best players. What he got in free agency is a wildly inflated market premium. He could've been resigned for less. Not so long ago, he was coming off a pretty down season. Heck, it might even have signaled him that the team still had confidence in his ability.

[Orton's Arm]

You are not seriously arguing that paying NC the money necessary to keep him would have been a wise thing to do are you?

Five years from now, it won't seem to make sense to pay McKelvin the money necessary to keep him.

[d_wag]

The Bills could have, if they wanted, made Nate a fair, significant, and decent offer before he hit free agency and before he got his panties all bunched about being tagged. It's not impossible; indeed, it happens all of the time on other teams with their best players. What he got in free agency is a wildly inflated market premium. He could've been resigned for less. Not so long ago, he was coming off a pretty down season. Heck, it might even have signaled him that the team still had confidence in his ability.

 

and that is why crowell and evans need to be sorted out YESTERDAY

[eball]

Wrong. I'll give you an example: Sam Cowart was not a GREAT draft pick even though he really was a great player for a few seasons. Good pick high in the second round.....sure. But no longevity. Flozell Adams was picked immediately before Cowart, he is still playing and doing so at a near Pro Bowl level. THAT was a GREAT pick.

 

There is a reason why Parcells took Jake Long, high picks should be the foundation of an organization. The foundation should be guys who have a legitimate chance to be there for a decade. Guys to build around. The Bills don't get that. We are so used to drafting in the upper half of round 1 now that we don't view the 11th pick as a very high pick, but it is. The Bills went the entire decade of the 1990's with a pick that high only once(traded for Rob Johnson).

 

It astounds me how people can't see this. They are so patient about giving Donahoe/Marv/Brandon time to gradually rebuild, all the while ignoring the fact that if the coach doesn't work out, then it's time to rebuild again without ever getting a solid foundation in place.

 

The Bills are one injury away from complete collapse on the O-Line. They were a very healthy unit last year, like the whole team had been the year before that. Kirk Chambers is the top backup.

 

The D-Line has one pass rusher who is coming off a poor season by his standards and they are banking on an old DT with injury and suspension issues to anchor their defense. Yet here they are drafting another guy in round 1 who will not be on the team in 5 years regardless of health or production. And people wonder why every few years or so the roster seems bereft of talent.

I disagree. You really want to believe that draft-day decisions in today's NFL should be made with a view towards how the team will look in 7-8 years? Seriously? If a team can get 5-6 productive years out of a high draft pick it should be viewed as a success. Some of those guys they'll try to extend and keep around, and some will move on for "greener pastures."

 

I "get it" just fine. I simply don't agree with guys like you and Bill.

[BADOLBILZ]

I disagree. You really want to believe that draft-day decisions in today's NFL should be made with a view towards how the team will look in 7-8 years? Seriously? If a team can get 5-6 productive years out of a high draft pick it should be viewed as a success. Some of those guys they'll try to extend and keep around, and some will move on for "greener pastures."

 

I "get it" just fine. I simply don't agree with guys like you and Bill.

 

You just don't want to face it. Yet.

 

It's the same schitt just with a different GM/coach. Jauron came in and wanted to bring back GW's small, penetrating DL approach to line play. The same approach that cost GW any chance at getting off on the right foot when he got here. They passed on the big DT they needed (Ngata) in round 1 of Jauron's first draft to pick a small safety who signed the largest contract in team history and has wowed nobody.

 

Two years later, they had to trade picks just to acquire Marcus Stroud, the same type of DT as Ngata, the guy that didn't fit their INITIAL approach......except an old, injured, drug suspended version. The flaws in their building plan are already quite obvious. Stroud will be out of the league in a few years and Ngata will be anchoring the line in Baltimore for another decade. Whitner is out of here at the end of his first contract.....and he's not anywhere near as valuable as a dominant lineman anyway.

 

When you have to stock your lines with guys pushing 30 years old in free agency you are just asking for upheaval every few seasons. When you can't win at the LOS, those perimeter players are all but worthless. Everyone was worried about paying a top corner on your team, that you used a #1 draft pick on, $8M per year. But paying some other teams one dimensional OG who has never been to a Pro Bowl $7M, or an underachieving also one dimensional OT from another team $5M, or an overrated LDE who doesn't rush the passer well $5M.........hey, that was WISE.

[dave mcbride]

Odomes was a 2nd rounder. [Correction] Burroughs was a 1st rounder; 2nd 1st rounder taken that year. Jones is the only guy that they've kept around in the last 20 years, not letting him walk in free agency rather than pay the going freight. The Bills are just plain horrendous at keeping their own secondary players, preferring to be a farm team for the rest of the NFL. Williams was a complete whiff.

 

Let's see: Burroughs broke his neck; Odomes went to Seattle; Williams was a bust; Jones - All Pro stayed his entire productive career; Wren?; Schulz ended up in Detroit; Smith, buh-bye; Burris jumped to Colts; Irvin went to the Saints; Kerner, later dude; Stevens ended up bouncing around the NFL; Winfield to Vikings; Clements to 49ers; Tillman was a bust; Wire broke his neck; Youboty looks like a bust ... leaving Whitner, Simpson, and McKelvin.

If I recall, Odomes was the 29th player chosen -- a first rounder in today's day and age ...

[Sisyphean Bills]

If I recall, Odomes was the 29th player chosen -- a first rounder in today's day and age ...

I'll never forget the game that Odomes and Burroughs shut down Dan Marino. Zero completions to the WRs in that game. It was a thing of defensive beauty. Simply fantastic.

 

Translating that to today: it would be like going up against Brady and the *s and blanking Randy Moss and Wes Welker and forcing the *s to dump the ball off to Faulk or Watson constantly where the LBs could chew them up.

 

Greatness in the rear view mirror...

[dave mcbride]

You just don't want to face it. Yet.

 

It's the same schitt just with a different GM/coach. Jauron came in and wanted to bring back GW's small, penetrating DL approach to line play. The same approach that cost GW any chance at getting off on the right foot when he got here. They passed on the big DT they needed (Ngata) in round 1 of Jauron's first draft to pick a small safety who signed the largest contract in team history and has wowed nobody.

 

Two years later, they had to trade picks just to acquire Marcus Stroud, the same type of DT as Ngata, the guy that didn't fit their INITIAL approach......except an old, injured, drug suspended version. The flaws in their building plan are already quite obvious. Stroud will be out of the league in a few years and Ngata will be anchoring the line in Baltimore for another decade. Whitner is out of here at the end of his first contract.....and he's not anywhere near as valuable as a dominant lineman anyway.

 

When you have to stock your lines with guys pushing 30 years old in free agency you are just asking for upheaval every few seasons. When you can't win at the LOS, those perimeter players are all but worthless. Everyone was worried about paying a top corner on your team, that you used a #1 draft pick on, $8M per year. But paying some other teams one dimensional OG who has never been to a Pro Bowl $7M, or an underachieving also one dimensional OT from another team $5M, or an overrated LDE who doesn't rush the passer well $5M.........hey, that was WISE.

 

Maybe everything you say is true, but I ask you, is McKelvin good? People say that he is. If he ends up being an impact player, then this theoretical discussion doesn't really matter. The Bills got to #2 overall for two straight seasons on D despite not featuring a great pass rushing DE, but the good corners and Milloy certainly helped.

 

And as for teams that beat the Bills in the Super Bowl, the Cowboys featured a #1 CB who completely shut opponents down for a few years before tearing his Achilles -- Kevin Smith. Darryl Green started for the Skins, and the Giants spent a number of high picks on DBs in the 1980s (Terry Kinard, Marc Collins).

 

Who was the defensive lineman they were supposed to draft anyway? The next one went quite a bit later.

[eball]

You just don't want to face it. Yet.

 

It's the same schitt just with a different GM/coach. Jauron came in and wanted to bring back GW's small, penetrating DL approach to line play. The same approach that cost GW any chance at getting off on the right foot when he got here. They passed on the big DT they needed (Ngata) in round 1 of Jauron's first draft to pick a small safety who signed the largest contract in team history and has wowed nobody.

 

Two years later, they had to trade picks just to acquire Marcus Stroud, the same type of DT as Ngata, the guy that didn't fit their INITIAL approach......except an old, injured, drug suspended version. The flaws in their building plan are already quite obvious. Stroud will be out of the league in a few years and Ngata will be anchoring the line in Baltimore for another decade. Whitner is out of here at the end of his first contract.....and he's not anywhere near as valuable as a dominant lineman anyway.

 

When you have to stock your lines with guys pushing 30 years old in free agency you are just asking for upheaval every few seasons. When you can't win at the LOS, those perimeter players are all but worthless. Everyone was worried about paying a top corner on your team, that you used a #1 draft pick on, $8M per year. But paying some other teams one dimensional OG who has never been to a Pro Bowl $7M, or an underachieving also one dimensional OT from another team $5M, or an overrated LDE who doesn't rush the passer well $5M.........hey, that was WISE.

You're not going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince you. Let's just leave it at that. I don't pretend to be an NFL GM or expert -- I follow my favorite team and hope they make the right decisions so one day I'll get to root for them in the playoffs again. I see some things I agree with, and some I don't -- but I know that "arguing" about something I can do nothing about with people on an internet message board just isn't worth my time. That's all.

 

Go Bills!