John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 And let me add up front a LOT of blame to go around on this team...... As a fan who has loved having Drew here.....the biggest problem I have with him now is if a Offensive Linemen blows an assignment.....it is just a sack....simple as that....you just know it is a fricken sack...... Other teams when a assigment has broken down have a QB that can buy themselves a couple of extra seconds EVEN IF that QB is not a scrambler.... TEAMS DONT DEFENSE DREW....THEY BLITZ HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 And let me add up front a LOT of blame to go around on this team...... As a fan who has loved having Drew here.....the biggest problem I have with him now is if a Offensive Linemen blows an assignment.....it is just a sack....simple as that....you just know it is a fricken sack...... Other teams when a assigment has broken down have a QB that can buy themselves a couple of extra seconds EVEN IF that QB is not a scrambler.... TEAMS DONT DEFENSE DREW....THEY BLITZ HIM 65175[/snapback] Yes. Not statuesque, more turtle-esque on some of those sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 This is what i've been saying for the past, oh, 28 games. Yes yes, Drew is a good QB when he has no one in his face. The problem is, even a line full of all-pros is going to let some people in his face from time to time. DREW CANNOT MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING. DREW DOES STUPID THINGS WITH THE BALL WHEN UNDER PRESSURE. If you're going to win at this level, your QB had better be able to at least shuffle and buy himself a second or two, a la Pennington and Brady, to use two familiar examples. Drew's sack with 50 seconds on the clock is a perfect example of this. With Brady or Pennington back there, we win that game with a FG. The one thing you DON"T DO is take a sack in that situation. But Drew's pocket presence, which used to be excellent years ago, is just not there. Drew Bledsoe is a liability because he's easy to defend, has proven over two years that he cannot beat the things that teams try to do to him, and he simply does not see the field the way a QB should. Watch the tape. Count how many times you see Drew look at just TWO different receivers before he pulls the trigger. You'll be amazed at how few times he does this. He tells the defense where the ball is going every time. Is it any wonder we have such poor YAC? is it any wonder that it seems we can't make a play? The defense KNOWS where Drew's going while he's dropping back! And they slide that way...it's simple, folks. Don't think that Drew "had that game won" because he finally made a couple plays. For 3.5 quarters, it was the same old DB that we've seen for 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 the commentators said "There's nothing Drew can do about that" when Drew got sacked. Well I saw a wide open receiver going across the middle about five yards down the field on that play. He could've and should've done something about that sack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 the commentators said "There's nothing Drew can do about that" when Drew got sacked. Well I saw a wide open receiver going across the middle about five yards down the field on that play. He could've and should've done something about that sack! 65206[/snapback] With all due respect, I am pretty sure I know the time and the play the announcer said that and if you look at the film, Drew is being folded in half by the defender right when the reciever was starting to get open. There exists absolutely no QB who would have made that play. In fact, he had under 2 seconds of free time, the reciever was not even in full stride yet. Again, I agree DB does not make things happen when under pressure but at least be fair. You could point to a few other instances, unfortunately your example is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 And let me add up front a LOT of blame to go around on this team...... As a fan who has loved having Drew here.....the biggest problem I have with him now is if a Offensive Linemen blows an assignment.....it is just a sack....simple as that....you just know it is a fricken sack...... Other teams when a assigment has broken down have a QB that can buy themselves a couple of extra seconds EVEN IF that QB is not a scrambler.... TEAMS DONT DEFENSE DREW....THEY BLITZ HIM 65175[/snapback] But, he is protecting the ball well when he is sacked. Yup, our QB can duck and cover better than your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 This is what i've been saying for the past, oh, 28 games. Yes yes, Drew is a good QB when he has no one in his face. The problem is, even a line full of all-pros is going to let some people in his face from time to time. DREW CANNOT MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING. DREW DOES STUPID THINGS WITH THE BALL WHEN UNDER PRESSURE. If you're going to win at this level, your QB had better be able to at least shuffle and buy himself a second or two, a la Pennington and Brady, to use two familiar examples. Drew's sack with 50 seconds on the clock is a perfect example of this. With Brady or Pennington back there, we win that game with a FG. The one thing you DON"T DO is take a sack in that situation. But Drew's pocket presence, which used to be excellent years ago, is just not there. Drew Bledsoe is a liability because he's easy to defend, has proven over two years that he cannot beat the things that teams try to do to him, and he simply does not see the field the way a QB should. Watch the tape. Count how many times you see Drew look at just TWO different receivers before he pulls the trigger. You'll be amazed at how few times he does this. He tells the defense where the ball is going every time. Is it any wonder we have such poor YAC? is it any wonder that it seems we can't make a play? The defense KNOWS where Drew's going while he's dropping back! And they slide that way...it's simple, folks. Don't think that Drew "had that game won" because he finally made a couple plays. For 3.5 quarters, it was the same old DB that we've seen for 2 seasons. 65191[/snapback] For the first time in about two years, I agree with those that said yesterday's game was Ok for Drew. The line really did screw up big on a couple of those sacks. And ya'll laugh at me when I compare a sack to a turnover. Well it is! it's really more like a punt since it usually ends a precious drive. That being said, You can't take bad sacks in this league and win, period and better than 50% of the time it's on Drew. I agree that the bottom line on Drew is that he can't ever buy himself that extra second or two OR make a play out of nothing. I'm tired of seeing him turtle up and curl everytime the pressure gets in there. Other QB's at least have escapability. Three times yesterday (that I noticed), Drew could have stepped up in the pocket,,,just two friggin' steps...and he would have avoided the negative play or sack and possibly made a play down field. But NO, he is absolutely cemented in back there and his linemen no matter what they say in public must shaking their heads at his immobility. Time for a change folks. enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Add the fact that Drew cannot find his receivers. He locks in on one guy from the start of a play to the dismal end. I think his poor play filters down to the rest of the squad. You have to figure by now NO ONE thinks Drew can lead them to victory. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 To tell the truth I dont know if it is right or wrong to put in Losman when he gets back..... But it is going to get awful ugly if they dont...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Drew proved he can still do it, by what he did in the 4th quarter. The problem I have is where the hell was he in the first 3 quarters. DB is not doing anything to lose the game, but he isn't doing anything to win it either. Right now that's what I find wrong about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree John. That is my knock on Bledsoe as well. Bring on Losman and lets see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 John, this "crusade" belittling Drew's talent (or lack thereof) must stop. "Nervous Guy" is getting more nercous and is going to slam the door shut on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 And let me add up front a LOT of blame to go around on this team...... As a fan who has loved having Drew here.....the biggest problem I have with him now is if a Offensive Linemen blows an assignment.....it is just a sack....simple as that....you just know it is a fricken sack...... Other teams when a assigment has broken down have a QB that can buy themselves a couple of extra seconds EVEN IF that QB is not a scrambler.... TEAMS DONT DEFENSE DREW....THEY BLITZ HIM 65175[/snapback] For a QB to be able to sidestep a blitzer to buy a second or two and make a play, he has to have somewhere to go. Drew isn't facing one guy getting through, it is a lot worse than that. Take the sack on the last drive. He had no place to go, nowhere. That pocket collapsed from the left, right and in the middle and so fast that he couldn't even get his arm cocked to throw it away. Further, he was between the tackles so even if he could, he likely would have ended up with a grounding call. The first time Jonas got burned by Abrahams, Ellis also beat MW on the right side. Abrahams just got their first. Drew had only one place he could go, further backwards for an even deeper loss. Yes, Drew is not very mobile. People around her seize on that one issue and then blame everything on it and tend to imagine that if only he were a little more nimble, everything would be okay. It isn't so. Watch him, Drew mostly takes a step forward to try and evade outside rushes. That is what they all do from Brady to McNabb. The problem is, our interior guys get pushed back literally every play. They don't always lose their guy but they do have to backpedal which leaves Drew no place to go when he steps up to avoid the guys coming around the edge. How many times have you seen Drew just disappear in a sea of jerseys? See, he doesn't take too many blind side hits from the edge rusher where you see the whole gory misadventure. Usually what you see is him stepping up into a pile of humanity and just vanishing. Drew is bound and determined not to have a lot of fumbles this year so he is taking care of the football, taking the sack and avoiding the turnover. Pennington let us back in the game by trying to get rid of the ball as he was going down and threw a pick instead. When the bodies get close, Drew is pulling it in rather than teeing it up to try and throw it away. If he were to get hit in the middle of that, he would risk a pick or a fumble. BB is right, our line is horsesh*t. Drew makes some mistakes and no, he is not mobile but if we gave him even a little space, he would do just fine. McNabb was sacked just about as much as Drew was last year (43 for McNabb, 49 for Drew). Is McNabb just not mobile enough? Drew even had a higher completion percentage and the rest of their numbers really were not all that different. This year he has a better QB rating than Michael Vick, Jake DelHomme, Jake Plummer, Trent Green, Vinny T. and Steve McNair to name a few. Think about it, if Nate bats down that ball against J'ville and the refs don't screw up the call on that nonTD by Travis in the Oakland game, if the D stops the Jets on that last drive and Travis doesn't fall down on that 3rd and 2 run agianst the PATs, aren't we here talking about what a great season Drew is having and how he is cutting down on the turnovers? We can win with Drew, we can't win with that line and it won't matter who are QB is if we don't fix that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 For a QB to be able to sidestep a blitzer to buy a second or two and make a play, he has to have somewhere to go. Drew isn't facing one guy getting through, it is a lot worse than that. Take the sack on the last drive. He had no place to go, nowhere. That pocket collapsed from the left, right and in the middle and so fast that he couldn't even get his arm cocked to throw it away. Further, he was between the tackles so even if he could, he likely would have ended up with a grounding call. The first time Jonas got burned by Abrahams, Ellis also beat MW on the right side. Abrahams just got their first. Drew had only one place he could go, further backwards for an even deeper loss. Yes, Drew is not very mobile. People around her seize on that one issue and then blame everything on it and tend to imagine that if only he were a little more nimble, everything would be okay. It isn't so. Watch him, Drew mostly takes a step forward to try and evade outside rushes. That is what they all do from Brady to McNabb. The problem is, our interior guys get pushed back literally every play. They don't always lose their guy but they do have to backpedal which leaves Drew no place to go when he steps up to avoid the guys coming around the edge. How many times have you seen Drew just disappear in a sea of jerseys? See, he doesn't take too many blind side hits from the edge rusher where you see the whole gory misadventure. Usually what you see is him stepping up into a pile of humanity and just vanishing. Drew is bound and determined not to have a lot of fumbles this year so he is taking care of the football, taking the sack and avoiding the turnover. Pennington let us back in the game by trying to get rid of the ball as he was going down and threw a pick instead. When the bodies get close, Drew is pulling it in rather than teeing it up to try and throw it away. If he were to get hit in the middle of that, he would risk a pick or a fumble. BB is right, our line is horsesh*t. Drew makes some mistakes and no, he is not mobile but if we gave him even a little space, he would do just fine. McNabb was sacked just about as much as Drew was last year (43 for McNabb, 49 for Drew). Is McNabb just not mobile enough? Drew even had a higher completion percentage and the rest of their numbers really were not all that different. This year he has a better QB rating than Michael Vick, Jake DelHomme, Jake Plummer, Trent Green, Vinny T. and Steve McNair to name a few. Think about it, if Nate bats down that ball against J'ville and the refs don't screw up the call on that nonTD by Travis in the Oakland game, if the D stops the Jets on that last drive and Travis doesn't fall down on that 3rd and 2 run agianst the PATs, aren't we here talking about what a great season Drew is having and how he is cutting down on the turnovers? We can win with Drew, we can't win with that line and it won't matter who are QB is if we don't fix that problem. 65589[/snapback] Mickey....this sounded like me a few weeks ago..... I actually think there are some teams you could put Drew on and he would be successfull.....but not on this team.... We need a QB that can take off if protection breaks down.....making teams think TWICE about bringing the house on every play....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 John, this "crusade" belittling Drew's talent (or lack thereof) must stop. "Nervous Guy" is getting more nercous and is going to slam the door shut on you. 65574[/snapback] DeeRay, suck it up, would you? John does nothing but see both sides of everything as objectively as he can and is always open to every viewpoint in any situation. You may want to suggest a post like this is a crusade, but I read John in Hemet's post all the time sir, and John in Hemet is NO DeeRay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree with you John. While Drew still has skills he ts too easily defensible. There is not an opposing defense in the NFL that is afraid of him. I don't think it really matters how he plays from here on out, as soon as Losman is healthy I say put him in and let him learn. This season is OVER, we need to face it and start working on next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree with you John. While Drew still has skills he ts too easily defensible. There is not an opposing defense in the NFL that is afraid of him. I don't think it really matters how he plays from here on out, as soon as Losman is healthy I say put him in and let him learn. This season is OVER, we need to face it and start working on next year. 65621[/snapback] The season is OVER? Really? Ooookay, then. Looks like my Sundays are free again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 I gotta say...I am not ready for the season to be over with what....11 games left to go.... I think there is a lot of football left to be played....and if a couple of things change.... I personally dont think they are utilizing the personnel correctly..... Anybody notice how this offense picked up when Evans and Magahee went into the game in the second half? - START LEE EVANS....stick with Lee Evans.....sit Josh Reed....bring in Sam Aiken for another big target....and Tim EUHUS is showing why we drafted him....... - Magehee needs to be on the field a LOT more....has anyone else noticed how hard Henry has to work for yards....but it seems almost effortless for WM? I was noticiing that yesterday.....he blocks better...and he is a natural reciever...... - Evans is not just a deep threat....that is just what he is best at...Evans can catch the short pass too....... - And for the love of god can we please just make Kelsay the perm starter instead of this "splitting time".....Denny is not going to be the answer...Kelsay is just as good a run stop guy and brings the added element of a playmaker (just not as dominat as I had hoped) I dont mean to harp on the QB issue...I just want Drew to succeed so bad because I like him as a person....it kills me the situation as it is happening...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Mickey....this sounded like me a few weeks ago..... I actually think there are some teams you could put Drew on and he would be successfull.....but not on this team.... We need a QB that can take off if protection breaks down.....making teams think TWICE about bringing the house on every play....... 65607[/snapback] It doesn't matter what we need. He is the QB, we have no other option but Matthews and Drew is gone at the end of this year even if he makes the pro bowl. We can't just toss up our hands now and say "shucks, he is not the right guy". He is the guy and there is no other choice. That is what kills me the most about this debate. We are having a QB controversey and we only have one QB. Week in and week out, carp, carp, carp about Bledsoe. Why? I don't want to hear from people that he is not mobile (duh) anymore. I want to hear them make a credible argument that Shane freaking Matthews should be the starting QB for this football team. Tell me about the great decision making skills he has or how he has a rep. for evading a fire alarm blitz and making the big play. All I have heard on that score is "he couldn't be worse". You and I know that is total BS, he not only could be worse, he is worse. He is no mystery like Brady was, he is a known commodity. He has been around for a long time and the jury reached its verdict on him a long, long time ago. He stinks. Look at all the starting QB's in this league. How many of them are Houdini's enough to evade the kind of rush that snagged Drew on Sunday? Two, three, maybe four tops? Well, we don't have one of those guys and chances are, even a healthy Losman is not one of those kinds of guys either. Check JP's college stats, he wasn't exactly known as Fran Tarkenton re-born. I think there are probably a lot more lineman out there who could improve this team than there are QB's that could regularly make plays behind a line as bad as ours is now. The Drew Bledsoe bus left the station a long time ago and none of us are going to be able to get a refund. He is the QB this season and that is that. We won't have him to kick around anymore as the board's favorite scapegoat next year no matter what happens. If we don't change that line, Losman will spend his first year as a starter running for his life. The best thing about next year is that we won't have a first round pick for TD to get cute with and do something clever like drafting a RB we don't need while the O-line disintegrates into dust. Picking high in the second is the perfect spot to get a good lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 JP Losman isn't going to be hurt forever..he is ahead of schedule..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 This is what i've been saying for the past, oh, 28 games. Drew's sack with 50 seconds on the clock is a perfect example of this. With Brady or Pennington back there, we win that game with a FG. The one thing you DON"T DO is take a sack in that situation. But Drew's pocket presence, which used to be excellent years ago, is just not there. Drew Bledsoe is a liability because he's easy to defend, has proven over two years that he cannot beat the things that teams try to do to him, and he simply does not see the field the way a QB should. 65191[/snapback] Bingo! Insert sound of hammer squarely striking nail head... B) And is there a single honest Bills Fan on this board that can say he did not have a strong feeling that Bledsoe would be Sacked at least once on that last drive? Well...I knew it was coming...and it came, as expected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree with john in the fact that you knew a sack was coming...in that situation, the QB has to do something, anything besides take the sack...yes it was our lines fault for not blocking too, but Drew CANNOT take a sack in that situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I agree with john in the fact that you knew a sack was coming...in that situation, the QB has to do something, anything besides take the sack...yes it was our lines fault for not blocking too, but Drew CANNOT take a sack in that situation... 65652[/snapback] Would you have preferred that he fumble or throw a pick like Pennington did trying to avoid a sack earlier? What they should have done was call a timeout after the sack or after Shaw got the first down. We ended up using that TO for no reason at all when there was 2 second left and the clock was stopped anyway as the preceding pass was an incompletion. All the good it did us was give us more time to think about how to run the hail mary on the last play. If we used it after the sack or after Shaw's catch, we would have had 30 or 40 seconds left with a first down at midfield needing only one decent completion of 15-20 yars to have a shot. Everyone is all over Drew for that sack and how many posts have you seen regarding this terrible mistake in clock management? This board is obsessed with blaming everything on Bledsoe, everything. Drew wanted to get that ball away but he didn't even have a chance to rooster his arm, the rush was there in a heartbeat and there was no place to step up. It was a sack or lose the ball while trying to unload it in traffic. He took that sack with over 40 seconds left, if they call timeout after that or after the Shaw catch they were still in the hunt for a FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 You know - if the single most element for success in today's NFL is mobility, than I say let's ship Drew to China. But right now, without an O-line, I still maintain Drew gives us our best chance to win. Crazy? Maybe. Right now the coaches are not adjusting our game plans to give our best players a chance. I had an epiphany with that quote from Ralph in today's reports. We simply are not a smash mouth type team right now. If anything, we're a down the field/short possesion team. Similar to the K-Gun era - except we had a genius of an OC. At the beginning of each series the O-line has to be convinced to protect for 3-4 plays so that Drew can throw standing up. That also means less opportunity for f-ups by everyone concerned. That long ball to Evans for a TD energized everyone on the team. I mean I actually saw Sam Adams making plays. Psychologically or functionally - that did something for the team. I'm not saying pass on 3rd and inches but it's time to take the shackles off and let Drew be a gun slinger again. I think he can make better decisions and better throws if they just give him an average of 3-4 seconds. I think our base personnel on offense should be: Bledsoe Moulds Evans Euhus/Shaw/Aiken Campbell/Neufeld McGahee/Henry I think if Euhus is used wisely he can be a surprise element in our O. They won't know if he's blocking or catching. I think it's sad how underutilized our TEs are right now. They could be such a big factor. Especially since Drew has to unload so quick. I don't think Losman should start until our season is lost. I realize everybody is enamored with Rothlesberger's success right now. But he is the exception to the rule. I also don't want JP out there getting killed before this line has gelled. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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