PromoTheRobot Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Tuned in the middle of this conversation: 1) TD not under pressure yet...but will be if this keeps up. 2) Blame TD for trading for Bledsoe when he didn't have the O-line to block for him. 3) Bills blew it not checking the charecter of Mike Williams before drafting him. King was trying not to say it outright, but he was insinuating that Mike Williams is a tortured individual who hates playing football, and only shows up for the paycheck. Refered to Mike "...having 900 guys hanging off him." Not defenders, but people mooching off him. Also said Mike shows up to work "...asking if his check was deposited yet?' He wasn't clear if that was an actual quote. He did say unequivicaly that Williams is killing Bledsoe and the Bills. So why is he playing? Becuase he's a #4 overall pick! If he were some FA walk-on, he'd be long gone. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Tuned in the middle of this conversation: 1) TD not under pressure yet...but will be if this keeps up. 2) Blame TD for trading for Bledsoe when he didn't have the O-line to block for him. 3) Bills blew it not checking the charecter of Mike Williams before drafting him. King was trying not to say it outright, but he was insinuating that Mike Williams is a tortured individual who hates playing football, and only shows up for the paycheck. Refered to Mike "...having 900 guys hanging off him." Not defenders, but people mooching off him. Also said Mike shows up to work "...asking if his check was deposited yet?' He wasn't clear if that was an actual quote. He did say unequivicaly that Williams is killing Bledsoe and the Bills. So why is he playing? Becuase he's a #4 overall pick! If he were some FA walk-on, he'd be long gone. PTR 50836[/snapback] Erik Flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 in that case i hope mularkey/mcnally torment him into either pulling his head out of his ass, or quitting. meanwhile, i have another worthless jersey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movinon Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 in that case i hope mularkey/mcnally torment him into either pulling his head out of his ass, or quitting. meanwhile, i have another worthless jersey... 50845[/snapback] Looks like another busted first round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Sorry, don't buy that for a second. How much pressure has come from the edge vs up the middle? Not nearly as much. And come on, what person is going to go into their job and ask, "Has my check been deposited yet?" Nobody! Maybe you would for your first ever paycheck, but not after that. Give me a break. The media is really pathetic -- they latch onto what people are complaining about and then fuel the fire by repeating it, but distancing themselves by saying, "I don't know if that's really true or not though." Give me a break. Is MW a dominant RT? No. Is he decent? Yes. Is he the main problem on the OL? DEFINATELY not. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 As an offensive linemen Mike Williams isnt going to get any love from me till he gets his head screwed on right..... There are OL out there that would give their left "whatever....take your pick" to be able to play ONE SEASON in the greatest sports stage in the world..... Mike Williams should have been getting his body ready to go even if his mental being was not there do to his problems...... Christ...I really dont understand it....I go to the gym to WORK OFF the frustrations of my life so they dont consume me....what is so fricken difficult about that...... Get it together Mike..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 3) Bills blew it not checking the charecter of Mike Williams before drafting him. 50836[/snapback] Funny me, but I recall one of the things that TD & people in the organization highlighted in drafting MW ahead of McKinney was his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Hope that was purposely leaked by someone to light a fire under his ass. Otherwise, those are some pretty serious accusations about Williams AND TD's drafting capabilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Funny me, but I recall one of the things that TD & people in the organization highlighted in drafting MW ahead of McKinney was his character. 50865[/snapback] The other funny thing is that we are paying a lot more for a right tackle than Minnesota is paying for a left tackle (McKinnie) who has outplayed Williams from Day one. I remember how people on this board completely trashed McKinnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Series accusations and accurate imo. I don't know about the check statement but he obviosly is getting Bledsoe killed at least once a week. I've been saying for two months he doesn't even appear to like playing football. I guess some others are seeing the same. He has a weak character which was evident over the summer and during camp. You blew it TD. The guy is an overgrown baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 How much pressure has come from the edge vs up the middle? Not nearly as much. 50849[/snapback] I feel that most of the pressure has been coming from the edge and the stats kind of support it. The OT's have given up 3 sacks this season vs. the Guards and Center who have given up only 1 (the lone sack being credited to Ross Tucker...a backup). That said...3 sacks by the OTs in two games isn't bad. For the most part, the O-line is getting the job done. It's the other blockers ...TE/HB/FB that aren't getting the job done. I will concede that pressure is coming from the middle from blitzing LBs and DBs, but I still think it is disproportionate to the amount of edge pressure. Everything else you said was spot on tho'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I feel that most of the pressure has been coming from the edge and the stats kind of support it. The OT's have given up 3 sacks this season vs. the Guards and Center who have given up only 1 (the lone sack being credited to Ross Tucker...a backup). That said...3 sacks by the OTs in two games isn't bad. For the most part, the O-line is getting the job done. It's the other blockers ...TE/HB/FB that aren't getting the job done. I will concede that pressure is coming from the middle from blitzing LBs and DBs, but I still think it is disproportionate to the amount of edge pressure. Everything else you said was spot on tho'. 50878[/snapback] MW was responsible for two sacks against the Raiders. One where he got beat and was caught off balance, the other where he made a mental error and blocked the wrong guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Funny me, but I recall one of the things that TD & people in the organization highlighted in drafting MW ahead of McKinney was his character. 50865[/snapback] As someone who works with the University of Texas athletics dept., I can tell you, there is not a better character person the Bills could have drafted than Mike Williams. That beign said, UT football players, other than runnning backs, and perhaps Roy Williams this year, are rarely prepared to make the jump to the pros. The players here are coddled by Mack Brown and staff. While they have some great athletes here (and have had) thye are poorly coached. Mike is a great guy, but I wouldn't be shocked if he lacked desire. Rememer Ricky Williams? Kwame Cavil? Jonathan Patton? The kids here are pretty spoiled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I would give anything to see Big Mike pancake some guy....Piss him off and get into a fricken brawl right there on the field.... I dont care if he gets kicked out....I want to see some attitude from him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I feel that most of the pressure has been coming from the edge and the stats kind of support it. The OT's have given up 3 sacks this season vs. the Guards and Center who have given up only 1 (the lone sack being credited to Ross Tucker...a backup). That said...3 sacks by the OTs in two games isn't bad. For the most part, the O-line is getting the job done. It's the other blockers ...TE/HB/FB that aren't getting the job done. I will concede that pressure is coming from the middle from blitzing LBs and DBs, but I still think it is disproportionate to the amount of edge pressure. Everything else you said was spot on tho'. 50878[/snapback] That the pressure is coming from the outside is no surprise, that's where the bulk of pressure comes from all across the league. Last I recall, the greatest pass rushers the game has produced are DE's and a few LB's (blitzes or edge rushers - recall Paup's big year? Outside rushes). With that said, Williams surely needs to pick his game up a notch, and there does seem to be clear evidence that his heart isn't in the game at this point. I fear he;ll pull a Ricky and just pack it in in a couple years and waste that god given talent all together leaving us high and dry. Here's to hoping he decides football is what he wants to excel at and do for as long as he can, but so far his actions are not supporting this hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Peter King has had a hair across his ass against TD & the Bills for a while now, ever since they let his great source Flutie go. I like King, he has great contacts in the NFL, but he is an exceedingly lazy guy (constant mentions of his daughters' sports & coffee to fill column inches) who often talks out of his butt. I agree that Williams hasn't worked out, but that's one of the risks you take with a high draft pick (the Browns know this now). We're 2 games into the season, it's a bit early to write off the O-line. They have underperformed, but that doesn't mean the season is lost. Look back at week 4 last year, and the end of the season results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Let's be honest, he's still better than Fina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Man Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The Bills should call up Conrad Dobler and let him show Mike Williams a few of his old tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I always thought the intention was to move MW to left tackle by year 2. Why spend such a high pick on a right tackle unless you have a left-handed QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The other funny thing is that we are paying a lot more for a right tackle than Minnesota is paying for a left tackle (McKinnie) who has outplayed Williams from Day one. I remember how people on this board completely trashed McKinnie. 50871[/snapback] McKinnie gave up 11 sacks last year, Williams 9. Who outplayed who last year? Jennings, a 3rd round pick gave up 2 or 3. If you compare Pace's first two seasons with Williams, Williams gave up 2 more sacks than Pace. If McKinnie was drafted by the Bills, he would have been a RT too, especially since he decided to hold out half of his first year. Jennings would have had the LT spot nailed down, and McKinnie's play would have kept him at RT. The problems with the OL has been inexperience, changing positions, offensive scheme and gameplan, and the loss of Larry Centers, who was able to get Bledsoe out of a jam. Then again, I don't have the apparent mind reading skills of Peter King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 McKinnie gave up 11 sacks last year, Williams 9. Who outplayed who last year? Jennings, a 3rd round pick gave up 2 or 3. If you compare Pace's first two seasons with Williams, Williams gave up 2 more sacks than Pace. If McKinnie was drafted by the Bills, he would have been a RT too, especially since he decided to hold out half of his first year. Jennings would have had the LT spot nailed down, and McKinnie's play would have kept him at RT. The problems with the OL has been inexperience, changing positions, offensive scheme and gameplan, and the loss of Larry Centers, who was able to get Bledsoe out of a jam. Then again, I don't have the apparent mind reading skills of Peter King. 50929[/snapback] Who is playing right tackle and who is playing left tackle? That will tell you who is playing against the better competition. Who played three fewer games last year? If I recall correctly, his initials are Mike Williams. Who has ZERO sacks against this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Is it possible to give coach Mcnally more than two regular season games to work with a Mike Williams before deciding his total future....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 McKinnie gave up 11 sacks last year, Williams 9. Who outplayed who last year? Jennings, a 3rd round pick gave up 2 or 3. If you compare Pace's first two seasons with Williams, Williams gave up 2 more sacks than Pace. If McKinnie was drafted by the Bills, he would have been a RT too, especially since he decided to hold out half of his first year. Jennings would have had the LT spot nailed down, and McKinnie's play would have kept him at RT. The problems with the OL has been inexperience, changing positions, offensive scheme and gameplan, and the loss of Larry Centers, who was able to get Bledsoe out of a jam. Then again, I don't have the apparent mind reading skills of Peter King. Thank you. You can also mentino that Culpepper is a much more mobile QB who can "get out of trouble and avoid sacks" according to most here. Not that it'll change most people's opinions here. They want some whipping boys, and DB and MW (and TD to a lesser extent) can do nothing right. Hell, last year when we were a very convincing 2-0, there were plenty of people here complaining about some of the shortfalls of the team. I think most people here just like to B word and moan. Sad, really. To the person who said McKinnie has outplayed Williams since day 1 -- how do you outplay someone when you're holding out for half a season and the other guy is starting??? CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Is it possible to give coach Mcnally more than two regular season games to work with a Mike Williams before deciding his total future....... 50938[/snapback] Of course. MW has tremendous tools. We have a huge investment in him. We also have no choice. I am still hopeful that he is going to develop into the player that we all expect. What made me angry a few years ago was how some people on this board trashed McKinnie (without really knowing anything about him). I watched nearly every game he played in college and he was a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I don't have a problem with Peter King criticizing Mike Williams' perfomance on the field, but to question his character based on hearsay? Wow. BTW, you'll never hear anyone on WEEI ask Peter King how much time he has spent at Bill Belichick's summer home in Nantucket during the off-season. I'm just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Thank you. You can also mentino that Culpepper is a much more mobile QB who can "get out of trouble and avoid sacks" according to most here. Not that it'll change most people's opinions here. They want some whipping boys, and DB and MW (and TD to a lesser extent) can do nothing right. Hell, last year when we were a very convincing 2-0, there were plenty of people here complaining about some of the shortfalls of the team. I think most people here just like to B word and moan. Sad, really. To the person who said McKinnie has outplayed Williams since day 1 -- how do you outplay someone when you're holding out for half a season and the other guy is starting??? CW 50945[/snapback] That was me. See my other posts. In their first year, BM payed in 8 games and allowed 4.75 sacks. That works out to .59 a game as a rookie LEFT TACKLE. (By the way, he only held out because the Vikings would not initially agree to pay him something between what the guy ahead and behind him got from their teams). MW played in 14 games and gave up 7.5 sacks. In other words, he gave up .53 sacks per game against lesser competition. Last year, BM gave up .68 sacks per game as a LEFT TACKLE. MW gave up .73 sacks per game last year as a right tackle. This year, BM has not given up a sack in 3 games. MW has given up 2 sacks in 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 MW's problems aside, Peter King has absolutely no idea what he's talking about there. I hate when the football media makes up stevestojan, it's annoying. Mike needs to improve in pass protection Yes, and fast, but those comments are from left field and are unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Of course. MW has tremendous tools. We have a huge investment in him. We also have no choice. I am still hopeful that he is going to develop into the player that we all expect. What made me angry a few years ago was how some people on this board trashed McKinnie (without really knowing anything about him). I watched nearly every game he played in college and he was a stud. 50947[/snapback] Yeah, he was a real stud those first 8 weeks of the season two years ago Come on, if we *had* drafted BM (which I'm still glad we didn't), everyone would be complaining about his lack of performance as well ESPECIALLY given the holdout. How many times has Culpepper fumbled on the goalline this year? How many sacks has he given up? People would be asking for his head just as much. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Who is playing right tackle and who is playing left tackle? That will tell you who is playing against the better competition. Who played three fewer games last year? If I recall correctly, his initials are Mike Williams. Who has ZERO sacks against this year? 50935[/snapback] Since the Bills acquired Bledsoe and needed to protect him, Teflon Tom should have traded down from #4 and taken Roy William, John Henderson or Dwight Freeney and then taken Mike Pearson in the 2nd round to play LT. Pearson played in a pass happy offense at Flordia and has shown he is much better at pass protection than MW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 You know what this thread has shown? Jonas Jennings is going to be very rich next year and we are going to have to pay him a lot of money if we want to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 MW's problems aside, Peter King has absolutely no idea what he's talking about there. I hate when the football media makes up stevestojan, it's annoying. Mike needs to improve in pass protection Yes, and fast, but those comments are from left field and are unfounded. 50967[/snapback] "Two things I think I think:" 1) King, the Peter, is an uninformed blowhard. 2) See # 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Since the Bills acquired Bledsoe and needed to protect him, Teflon Tom should have traded down from #4 and taken Roy William, John Henderson or Dwight Freeney and then taken Mike Pearson in the 2nd round to play LT. Pearson played in a pass happy offense at Flordia and has shown he is much better at pass protection than MW. 50983[/snapback] How quickly people forget that we *did* want to (allegedly) trade down but that there were no takers (again, according to reports from that year). CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 McKinnie gave up 11 sacks with a supposed "mobile" QB too. Too much is being made about Williams himself. The problem seems to be, from a non O-line expert, that as a unit these guys don't seem to be working together. Some of the better O-lines recently have not been the most dominant players but good working units (Denver, New England, Etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Newsflash - they BOTH suck. Levi Jones was the pick of that litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Since the Bills acquired Bledsoe and needed to protect him, Teflon Tom should have traded down from #4 and taken Roy William, John Henderson or Dwight Freeney and then taken Mike Pearson in the 2nd round to play LT. Pearson played in a pass happy offense at Flordia and has shown he is much better at pass protection than MW. Hindsight is 20-20, but, damnit... I can't argue with this at all. THis is a defining year for big Mike. If he doesn't cut it this year, he ain't gonna ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Bills blew it not checking the charecter of Mike Williams before drafting him. King was trying not to say it outright, but he was insinuating that Mike Williams is a tortured individual who hates playing football, and only shows up for the paycheck. Refered to Mike "...having 900 guys hanging off him." Not defenders, but people mooching off him. Also said Mike shows up to work "...asking if his check was deposited yet?' He wasn't clear if that was an actual quote. He did say unequivicaly that Williams is killing Bledsoe and the Bills. So why is he playing? Becuase he's a #4 overall pick! If he were some FA walk-on, he'd be long gone. 50836[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I don't think we had a trade partner Obie, but a nice "what if" nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 McKinnie gave up 11 sacks last year, Williams 9. Who outplayed who last year? Jennings, a 3rd round pick gave up 2 or 3. If you compare Pace's first two seasons with Williams, Williams gave up 2 more sacks than Pace. If McKinnie was drafted by the Bills, he would have been a RT too, especially since he decided to hold out half of his first year. Jennings would have had the LT spot nailed down, and McKinnie's play would have kept him at RT. The problems with the OL has been inexperience, changing positions, offensive scheme and gameplan, and the loss of Larry Centers, who was able to get Bledsoe out of a jam. Then again, I don't have the apparent mind reading skills of Peter King. 50929[/snapback] The problem I have with the whole thing is we aren't talking about a mid first round pick or even a end of the first round pick... We are talking about the FOURTH OVERALL PICK.....even when this guy is out of shape....and green he should be just knocking people off the ball from sheer talent....... Then you see guys like Mike Pearson doing so well for the jags....oh man....I did like Mike Pearson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Who is playing right tackle and who is playing left tackle? That will tell you who is playing against the better competition. Who played three fewer games last year? If I recall correctly, his initials are Mike Williams. Who has ZERO sacks against this year? 50935[/snapback] McKinnie's numbers as a LT his first two years still suck. If the Bills drafted him, Jennings would still be the LT, not McKinnie. Like Williams, he would be playing the right side. So if you want to make the distinction of RT vs. LT, then the comparison should be Jennings vs. McKinnie. And McKinnie loses that battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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