PromoTheRobot Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The post about playing a neutral site game in Toronto got me thinking. I want to paint a scenario for you. Tell me what you think. We all worry about losing the Bills to L.A. and being a small market team revenue-wise. If you could share the Bills with Toronto as a way of ensuring they will always be the BUFFALO Bills, would you do it? WHAT IF: The Bills train in Canada and play 2 regular season games in Toronto. Further, the Bills bid for the Super Bowl to be played in Toronto. WHAT BUFFALO GETS OUT OF IT: Ensure the Bills never move completely. Gain access to sponsor money that could put the Bills at a par with Dallas, New England and Washington. A chance to be competitive, pay more for coaches, have more scouting, and be a more attractive destination for free agents. If you're a Bills fan worried about the Bills moving, or at least staying competitve in a free-spending NFL, you have to be realistic and know that things can't last forever. They used to let you into War Memorial with kegs, for heaven sake! So there are many things about cheering for the Bills that have changed over time. If sharing the Bills meant keeping them the Bills forever, I would be in favor of that. Buffalonians have many great qualities, but a glaring fault is self-pity, having a loser's mentality, and always feeling victimized. For a change, why not go on the offensive? Why not find a way to make the game work in our favor for once? Jones and Kraft don't want to subsidize teams like Buffalo? Fine, we'll get creative and start generating more revenue than you. Then you can cry about us. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Toronto already has a team. GO ARGOS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 No. If the Bills can't play 8 regular season games in OP, let them play 8 regular season games in some new fly-by-night city 2000 miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I wouldn't share herpes with Toronto..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmanbfan Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The post about playing a neutral site game in Toronto got me thinking. I want to paint a scenario for you. Tell me what you think. We all worry about losing the Bills to L.A. and being a small market team revenue-wise. If you could share the Bills with Toronto as a way of ensuring the will always be the BUFFALO Bills, would you do it? WHAT IF: The Bills train in Canada and play 2 regular season games in Toronto. Further, the Bills bid for the Super Bowl to be played in Toronto. WHAT BUFFALO GETS OUT OF IT: Ensure the Bills never move completely. Gain access to sponsor money that could put the Bills at a par with Dallas, New England and Washington. A chance to be competitive, pay more for coaches, have more scouting, and be a more attractive destination for free agents. If you're a Bills fan worried about the Bills moving, or at least staying competitve in a free-spending NFL, you have to be realistic and know that things can't last forever. They used to let you into War Memorial with kegs, for heaven sake! So there are many things about cheering for the Bills that have changed over time. If sharing the Bills meant keeping them the Bills forever, I would be in favor of that. Buffalonians have many great qualities, but a glaring fault is self-pity, having a loser's mentality, and always feeling victimized. For a change, why not go on the offensive? Why not find a way to make the game work in our favor for once? Jones and Kraft don't want to subsidize teams like Buffalo? Fine, we'll get creative and start generating more revenue than you. Then you can cry about us. PTR 594328[/snapback] Didn't Green Bay used to play a couple of games somewhere else in the past? Just curious if there is a precedent for this. The one thing that I think would suck about this is the game atmosphere in Toronto. I am a Canadian and I really love coming down to Buffalo. I don't think that Toronto would have the same feel. Although the beer would be stronger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmanbfan Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I wouldn't share herpes with Toronto..... 594333[/snapback] That's about the nicest thing somebody has said about Toronto on this board in a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I think I posted this before, but back in like '92 I went to see a psychic that a few of my friends swore by. One of the things she said was that the Bills would one day combine in some way with Toronto and be called the Toronto-Buffalo Bills. She said the vision she had was like a newspaper where they use abbreviations for teams in the standings, and she saw "Tor/Buf" listed for the Bills. Take it for what you will......I'm just the messenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I think I posted this before, but back in like '92 I went to see a psychic that a few of my friends swore by. One of the things she said was that the Bills would one day combine in some way with Toronto and be called the Toronto-Buffalo Bills. She said the vision she had was like a newspaper where they use abbreviations for teams in the standings, and she saw "Tor/Buf" listed for the Bills. Take it for what you will......I'm just the messenger 594338[/snapback] Were they the Argobills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 That's about the nicest thing somebody has said about Toronto on this board in a while! 594336[/snapback] I must be one of them there compassionate conservatives. Of course if I could figure out a way to share it w/o actually having to touch anybody, well then I might reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Didn't Green Bay used to play a couple of games somewhere else in the past? Just curious if there is a precedent for this. The one thing that I think would suck about this is the game atmosphere in Toronto. I am a Canadian and I really love coming down to Buffalo. I don't think that Toronto would have the same feel. Although the beer would be stronger... 594334[/snapback] Green Bay played 4 games in Milwaukee. They stopped doing that a few years ago. Not sure why. But I guess they felt that they going to get Milwaukee $$ wherever they played. The truth is that's where the sponsor bucks are. And a virgin market for the NFL. And being Toronto, that will influence a big chunk of Canada. We B word about not paying coaches enough? Well, this is how you pay them. I'm surprised by some of the negative reactions. To me, they're like a rich cousin. If you don't like Toronto, look at it as taking advantage of them to get what we want. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Green Bay played 4 games in Milwaukee. They stopped doing that a few years ago. Not sure why. But I guess they felt that they going to get Milwaukee $$ wherever they played. The truth is that's where the sponsor bucks are. And a virgin market for the NFL. And being Toronto, that will influence a big chunk of Canada. We B word about not paying coaches enough? Well, this is how you pay them. I'm surprised by some of the negative reactions. To me, they're like a rich cousin. If you don't like Toronto, look at it as taking advantage of them to get what we want. PTR 594341[/snapback] I'd rather share the team with LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Bad enough they play in OP, the stadium should be downtown IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Bad enough they play in OP, the stadium should be downtown IMO. 594351[/snapback] Just east of the HSBC..... No, knock down some grain elevators and put the new stadium in that swampy area......West Meadowlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granitestatebillsbackers Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Green Bay played 4 games in Milwaukee. They stopped doing that a few years ago. Not sure why. But I guess they felt that they going to get Milwaukee $$ wherever they played. The truth is that's where the sponsor bucks are. And a virgin market for the NFL. And being Toronto, that will influence a big chunk of Canada. We B word about not paying coaches enough? Well, this is how you pay them. I'm surprised by some of the negative reactions. To me, they're like a rich cousin. If you don't like Toronto, look at it as taking advantage of them to get what we want. PTR 594341[/snapback] Promo, I think this is a viable idea. The Patriots, while they play on a single field, have proven that they can draw fans from a large area. Worried about the "fan atmosphere" in Toronto? Fill some buses up with Buffalo fans and set aside a parking area for tailgating. The Canadians will catch on fast enough. I'm amazed at how many people aren't willing to find a solution to keep this team in Buffalo. If anyone thinks it's a slam dunk (sorry to mix my metaphors) that they are going to remain, they're delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Green Bay played 4 games in Milwaukee. They stopped doing that a few years ago. Not sure why. But I guess they felt that they going to get Milwaukee $$ wherever they played. The truth is that's where the sponsor bucks are. And a virgin market for the NFL. And being Toronto, that will influence a big chunk of Canada. We B word about not paying coaches enough? Well, this is how you pay them. I'm surprised by some of the negative reactions. To me, they're like a rich cousin. If you don't like Toronto, look at it as taking advantage of them to get what we want. PTR 594341[/snapback] I attended a Bills/Pack game in Brewtown many years ago. The biggest problem, IMO, was the stadium in Milwaukee. It SUCKED! It was, without question, the worst football venue I've ever experienced. Not too appealing when your home field is Lambeau. I'm not saying that was the only reason the Pack stopped playing there, but it had to be a considersation. As for the crazy, team-sharing idea. (Let's just establish that this is not going to happen...k?) I'd rather share the Bils with TO than totally lose them. But, I consider that the lesser of two terrible evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'd rather share the Bils with TO than totally lose them. But, I consider that the lesser of two terrible evils. 594383[/snapback] I'm with ya there.....as much as I absolutely love Toronto (some of the best food in the world....very clean, friendly city), I just assume we keep our Bills to ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Were they the Argobills? 594339[/snapback] Call them the Toruffalo Billgonaughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 At first glance it seems like an interesting hypothetical. On second glance it's a no-brainer and non-issue where I would imagine that 99% of the fans (outside of Canadians) think the same way. The answer is no, and of course. No, I don't want to share the team with Toronto. Yes, if the Bills were going to move to another city OR play a couple games in Toronto, of course I would want them to stay here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Fub Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 If the choice was lose the team or share them with Toronto, of course I'd share. However, I think it's completely unecessary. I rarely worry about the team moving. I really doubt it's going to happen. They fan base is too strong and the money is too significant. Irregardless of who owns the team, he'll be hard pressed to recreate the football market that is WNY and Southern Ontario. It takes generations to create the kind of loyalty the Bills presently enjoy. You can't create a customer base like that overnight. Cities that gave out sweetheart deals like Baltimore and Oakland have been burned by them. I think non-NFL cities are now doing a cost-benefit analysis of a pro sports team and realizing that they might not be worth it. Larger cities don't guarantee a larger fan base. LA is much larger but if people don't give a damn about the NFL, then they are not going to support the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'm with ya there.....as much as I absolutely love Toronto (some of the best food in the world....very clean, friendly city), I just assume we keep our Bills to ourselves. 594387[/snapback] For the record, i always thought Toronto had the worst food of any major city i've ever had the opportunity to spend real time. Chinese was always good there. italian, perhaps the worst ever. A few years ago I was there and it seemed as though the restuarant scene was experiencing an upgrade. Ate in a few of the nicer new places not too far from the Custerdome (steely dan reference) and I wasn't all that impressed. It is a very nice clean city, though. With very nice, clean, dull people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The post about playing a neutral site game in Toronto got me thinking. I want to paint a scenario for you. Tell me what you think. We all worry about losing the Bills to L.A. and being a small market team revenue-wise. If you could share the Bills with Toronto as a way of ensuring they will always be the BUFFALO Bills, would you do it? WHAT IF: The Bills train in Canada and play 2 regular season games in Toronto. Further, the Bills bid for the Super Bowl to be played in Toronto. WHAT BUFFALO GETS OUT OF IT: Ensure the Bills never move completely. Gain access to sponsor money that could put the Bills at a par with Dallas, New England and Washington. A chance to be competitive, pay more for coaches, have more scouting, and be a more attractive destination for free agents. If you're a Bills fan worried about the Bills moving, or at least staying competitve in a free-spending NFL, you have to be realistic and know that things can't last forever. They used to let you into War Memorial with kegs, for heaven sake! So there are many things about cheering for the Bills that have changed over time. If sharing the Bills meant keeping them the Bills forever, I would be in favor of that. Buffalonians have many great qualities, but a glaring fault is self-pity, having a loser's mentality, and always feeling victimized. For a change, why not go on the offensive? Why not find a way to make the game work in our favor for once? Jones and Kraft don't want to subsidize teams like Buffalo? Fine, we'll get creative and start generating more revenue than you. Then you can cry about us. PTR 594328[/snapback] It would be like sharing your wife with a palid jacket wearing used car salesman so you could get a slightly better model for the price. Give me a break--in salary cap times?????--so we can overpay for some coaches like little danny does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 If the choice was lose the team or share them with Toronto, of course I'd share. However, I think it's completely unecessary. I rarely worry about the team moving. I really doubt it's going to happen. They fan base is too strong and the money is too significant. Irregardless of who owns the team, he'll be hard pressed to recreate the football market that is WNY and Southern Ontario. It takes generations to create the kind of loyalty the Bills presently enjoy. You can't create a customer base like that overnight. Cities that gave out sweetheart deals like Baltimore and Oakland have been burned by them. I think non-NFL cities are now doing a cost-benefit analysis of a pro sports team and realizing that they might not be worth it. Larger cities don't guarantee a larger fan base. LA is much larger but if people don't give a damn about the NFL, then they are not going to support the team. 594401[/snapback] Irregardless? You uncultured,uneducated brute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Id fugging love it. Once a year at least, all us "Ugly Americans" can crowd up to Toronto en masse and return the "favor" of being good guests, like the Canadians do when they come to Orchard Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 For the record, i always thought Toronto had the worst food of any major city i've ever had the opportunity to spend real time. Chinese was always good there. italian, perhaps the worst ever. A few years ago I was there and it seemed as though the restuarant scene was experiencing an upgrade. Ate in a few of the nicer new places not too far from the Custerdome (steely dan reference) and I wasn't all that impressed. It is a very nice clean city, though. With very nice, clean, dull people. 594402[/snapback] I always thought Toronto and San Fran had the same type of people. la la la lolla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 If that was the only choice: 2 games in Toronto or lose the Bills, then I say let's have 2 games in Toronto. Boy, Russ Brandon would have his hands full (taxes, border, Canadian dollar, etc...) I can see the headline: BILLS FORFEIT, STOPPED AT BORDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'd have no problem giving Toronto one of our preseaon games. In fact, I'd encourage it. Training camp in Rochester, 1 preseason game in Toronto, maybe the other at the Carrier Dome...this would be a great way to further regionalize the team and gain more fans/team revenue. But a regular season game? No !@#$ing way. There are only 8 of 'em. Each one is precious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Ya give them an inch, they'll end up taking a yard, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Ya give them an inch, they'll end up taking a yard, my friend. 594457[/snapback] Meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'd share Bills with Toronto. Let Bills play two preseason games (and train in Canada when the camp contract runs out) and then have regular season in Buffalo. Those who live in Rochester would be mad but it would be worth it to season ticket holders who would not need to pay for "pretend" games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Am I the only one who is tired of reading sh-- about the BILLS moving or sharing them with Toronto? Buffalo is a very profitable team and the NFL has no desire to abandon this market. Move the team to Toronto? The Blue Jays can barely compete or sell out... Let the Canadians keep their CFL and the Leafs. The BILLS will never leave Buffalo. Trust me, I know. If the NFL is committed to New Orleans, Jacksonville, and Tampa - Buffalo should feel NO threat of a move or what have you. I wish the moderators could delete these posts upon entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The BILLS will never leave Buffalo. Trust me, I know. 594474[/snapback] b.harami? that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Am I the only one who is tired of reading sh-- about the BILLS moving or sharing them with Toronto? Buffalo is a very profitable team and the NFL has no desire to abandon this market. Move the team to Toronto? The Blue Jays can barely compete or sell out... Let the Canadians keep their CFL and the Leafs. The BILLS will never leave Buffalo. Trust me, I know. If the NFL is committed to New Orleans, Jacksonville, and Tampa - Buffalo should feel NO threat of a move or what have you. I wish the moderators could delete these post upon entry. 594474[/snapback] It's not a matter of attendance...it's a matter of sponsor dollars. Sure, we can have the Bills just as they are. And we'll keep on crying that we don't pay the going rate for good coaches, and why do other teams have bigger scouting staffs, and why can't we get good free agents, and so on... I get the feeling that if the Bills ever did win it all, fans wouldn't know what to B word about. I think the responses to this post pretty much represents the core attitude of the entire region. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 b.harami98 was a true visionary and seer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'm not sharing the Bills with Toronto ever unless they want our preseason games. If Toronto wants a franchise let the go get the approval of Tagliabue. 8 regular season games at RWS EVERY year or bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I attended a Bills/Pack game in Brewtown many years ago. The biggest problem, IMO, was the stadium in Milwaukee. It SUCKED! It was, without question, the worst football venue I've ever experienced. Not too appealing when your home field is Lambeau. I'm not saying that was the only reason the Pack stopped playing there, but it had to be a considersation. Another reason is that the players hate having 2-4 extra "travel games" per year. With the amount of money Erie County has sunk into the Stadium, I think getting 8 games a year is the least we can expect. Moreover, any "sharing" with Toronto would become unequal over time. The Toronto area has over twice the popuation of Buffalo-Rochester-Dunkirk. As such, I don't want any piece of such a "partnership." Either the politicans in NYS, Erie County, and the City of Buffalo will get their act in gear and stem the tide of decline, or else my beloved home city will eventually fade away and the Bills will be forced to move on. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 It's not a matter of attendance...it's a matter of sponsor dollars. Sure, we can have the Bills just as they are. And we'll keep on crying that we don't pay the going rate for good coaches, and why do other teams have bigger scouting staffs, and why can't we get good free agents, and so on... I get the feeling that if the Bills ever did win it all, fans wouldn't know what to B word about. I think the responses to this post pretty much represents the core attitude of the entire region. PTR 594478[/snapback] The Bills would lose a lot in this deal. First off, the SkyDome seats around 53,000 for football, nowhere near the 70,000+ the Ralph seats. In terms of sponsorship dollars, the Bills would lose money on their current sponsorship deals because they would have sell a 6 game deal instead of an eight game deal at the Ralph. They might be able to sell their national sponsors on a game in Canada, but they would have to replace all the local sponsors, since local radio stations and supermarkets gain nothing from a game in Canada. And even if they could replace their local sponsorship revenue with Canadian local sponsorship, they would have to split sponsorship revenue with the SkyDome for games in Toronto. Not to mention that the going rates for a are probably much higher for an American football game than a Canadian baseball game, making the ad time tougher to sell. This would also create a nightmare around season ticket sales. Do season ticket holders also have to buy tickets to the SkyDome? If they do, there would only be something like 10,000 tickets left to sell. If they don't you have to sell a ticket that will probably cost upwards of $90 to $100 Candadian to the Toronto market, for a team that's carpetbagging a couple of times a year. Hardly a foundation for loyalty. This deal looks like a complete loser for the Bills, especially since they've sold out over 90% of their games over the last few seasons. The Bills aren't hiring "expensive" coaches because they can't afford them. Rather, the higher-priced coaches expect complete control of the organization, something Ralph doesn't want to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 It's not a matter of attendance...it's a matter of sponsor dollars. Sure, we can have the Bills just as they are. And we'll keep on crying that we don't pay the going rate for good coaches, and why do other teams have bigger scouting staffs, and why can't we get good free agents, and so on... I get the feeling that if the Bills ever did win it all, fans wouldn't know what to B word about. I think the responses to this post pretty much represents the core attitude of the entire region. PTR 594478[/snapback] I never said anything about selling out games. You're trying to tell me that New Orleans, J-ville, and Tampa have THAT many more corporate dollars and sponsorship? Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 The BILLS will never leave Buffalo. Trust me, I know. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 I never said anything about selling out games. You're trying to tell me that New Orleans, J-ville, and Tampa have THAT many more corporate dollars and sponsorship? Prove it. 594532[/snapback] Every team you mentioned is in the same boat as Buffalo if the Jerry Jones's and Bob Kraft's get their way in the NFL. I'm just trying to be creative in finding a solution, not just wailing woe-is-me. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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