nodnarb Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 But first, I keep reading that this was the last defensive coordinator hire in the league. Who the heck did the Jets hire for defense? I don't see a DC on their website. RE: Fewell, I'm skeptical. First-timer. Sigh. I can't believe the Bills just didn't give Bates another 200K. Disappointing. I'm skeptical because he comes from the Tampa 2 school of defense, which has a history of being good but not great. Many Cover 2 DCs believe in it to the point that they don't believe in scheming or changing things up or disguising coverages. They just line up and dare the offense to beat them. To be good at that, you had better not have any holes that can be exploited. And even if you don't have any gaping holes, like the Colts D or the 05 Bears (which were good but not great) you still can't get far in the playoffs unless you show your opponent something they haven't prepared for. That's what makes the Patriots so consistently good. They understand that you can't give your opponent and edge by being predictable. And Tampa-2 coaches tend to be just that. The Steelers beat the Colts primarily because the Colts weren't ready for what the Steelers showed them and that sent them into catch-up mode. The Steelers had so much for them they kept changing their looks and the Colts were guessing the whole game; that's why their protections broke down. Meanwhile, look what happened to the vaunted Bears D in their first playoff game. They were made to look *very bad* all of a sudden. Because they came out with their standard D, which made it easy to prepare for and scheme around. NO adjustments later, and they were 1 and out. Fewell's secondary was GASHED again and again and again. And most importantly, for this defense to work, you absolutely MUST have a DLine that can get a consistent rush with 4 guys. We have 2 guys in Adams and Schobel who can do it. Kelsay is still unproven and unless Ron Edwards is healthy and re-signed and suddenly great, we'll need a new DT to tie up blockers. A Pat Williams type. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 But first, I keep reading that this was the last defensive coordinator hire in the league. Who the heck did the Jets hire for defense? I don't see a DC on their website. And most importantly, for this defense to work, you absolutely MUST have a DLine that can get a consistent rush with 4 guys. We have 2 guys in Adams and Schobel who can do it. Kelsay is still unproven and unless Ron Edwards is healthy and re-signed and suddenly great, we'll need a new DT to tie up blockers. A Pat Williams type. Thoughts? 589524[/snapback] We all agree that the lines have to be bolstered. 2005 Chicago's strengths were the DL and linebacker (Urlacher). Chicago's problem was a weak secondary of which Vasher stood out for a while due to interceptions. We already have a couple of good linebackers in Fletcher and Spikes but need to make sure the DL is bolstered along with keeping the secondary intact or upgrade (as yo mentioned). I am of the opinion that NC should be kept and depth added for Vincent, Milloy. Upgrading the DL itself will do a lot for the overall performance of the D (NC included). I am not too worried about this hire as DJ is a defensive coach and can step in should Fewell screw-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I am not too worried about this hire as DJ is a defensive coach and can step in should Fewell screw-up. 589537[/snapback] Like Mularkey did with Clements? I wouldn't want him to "step in" but I hope he guides him along the right path to being a successful DC. As far as the D line goes, the answer is.... Ngata! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Sigh. I can't believe the Bills just didn't give Bates another 200K. 589524[/snapback] Bates turned down a $1M offer from the Rams. So another $200K would not have been enough. It's obvious to me Bates just wants to sit on his a$$ and collect his contract from GB. How good can he be with THAT kind of commitment? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Great analysis, especially in reference to the Colts and Bears problems (although those Bears' CBs falling down didn't help ) in the playoffs. I just hope Dick can add enough "change ups" so the Bills can be the exception to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 But first, I keep reading that this was the last defensive coordinator hire in the league. Who the heck did the Jets hire for defense? I don't see a DC on their website. RE: Fewell, I'm skeptical. First-timer. Sigh. I can't believe the Bills just didn't give Bates another 200K. Disappointing. I'm skeptical because he comes from the Tampa 2 school of defense, which has a history of being good but not great. Many Cover 2 DCs believe in it to the point that they don't believe in scheming or changing things up or disguising coverages. They just line up and dare the offense to beat them. To be good at that, you had better not have any holes that can be exploited. And even if you don't have any gaping holes, like the Colts D or the 05 Bears (which were good but not great) you still can't get far in the playoffs unless you show your opponent something they haven't prepared for. That's what makes the Patriots so consistently good. They understand that you can't give your opponent and edge by being predictable. And Tampa-2 coaches tend to be just that. The Steelers beat the Colts primarily because the Colts weren't ready for what the Steelers showed them and that sent them into catch-up mode. The Steelers had so much for them they kept changing their looks and the Colts were guessing the whole game; that's why their protections broke down. Meanwhile, look what happened to the vaunted Bears D in their first playoff game. They were made to look *very bad* all of a sudden. Because they came out with their standard D, which made it easy to prepare for and scheme around. NO adjustments later, and they were 1 and out. Fewell's secondary was GASHED again and again and again. And most importantly, for this defense to work, you absolutely MUST have a DLine that can get a consistent rush with 4 guys. We have 2 guys in Adams and Schobel who can do it. Kelsay is still unproven and unless Ron Edwards is healthy and re-signed and suddenly great, we'll need a new DT to tie up blockers. A Pat Williams type. Thoughts? 589524[/snapback] My snse is that the criteria for selection of a new DC were: 1. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 2. A competent man who can call the defensive plays well. 3. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 4. A compotent man who is a good teacher who helps the players perform. 5. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 6. A compotent man who can diagnose first half play (and also diagnose things on the fly), choose changes in the Bills D to block the opponent, and implement these changes over the half (or on the fly) so that we make good adjustments. 7. A compotent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. Get the point? Bates clearly is a competent man and a defensive guru who meets this consistent criterion that influences all aspects we are looking for. However, after the roller coaster dissension that destroyed this team last season as TD attempted to IMPOSE (as Jerry Sullivan is fond of looking for because he wants a fight that is a good story) the main criterion after wanted a competent DC is that he needs to be on the same page and fit in with the existing staff. I think the $ issue was actually a good test for bates to see whether his priority was gonna be the TEAM or himself. I have no problem with a fellow looking out for #1 (particularly if a big part of #1 is his family or a sick kid- I have no trouble with a Jim Kelly making every dime he can to use for Hunter or to buy meaningless baubles for his wife if that makes her happy and better able to take care of Hunter. I feel the same way about Doug Flutie and his autistic kid). If Bates came it pretty clearly to me would have been a drive-by visit and what he seemed to want was a regular HC gig after gettting a taste as a very good interim HC for Miami. Particularly since Jaurin is a defensive guru and will have a big say in running and installing his system rather than running a Bates system as the Bills primary D, I think it is a legit question whether the job is what Bates wants because its the only DC job available or whether he wants the job because he is committed to the Bills. I for one am quite happy we did not get bates because I think it would have been a struggle at best for him to be on the same page as the rest of the coaching staff and players. Right now I'd rather have folks be on the same page and wrong together rather than have disension where one fellow is right and others are wrong and they fight out. This last method can work in certain circumstances. Ditka and Buddy Ryan fought like cats and dogs but the '85 Bears were good enough that the team worked and won. Marv Levy and whatever the old wunderkind who concerived the K-Gun fought like cats and dogs but Bill Polian was a strong leader and Jimbo and the Boys were good enough to make it work. I have my doubts about whether Ralph can really be a good leader deciding stuff (I hope like heck that he is mostly seen but not heard, he appears to be a nice rich guy but has made some lousy football judgments and also been a bad judge of character trusting the wrong guys). I know dissension would be a great story for Sullivan, but particularly at this juncture I think we most need folks to be on the same page and willing to sacrifice for each other and the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I like the hire. he has worked with Lovie Smith in Chicago and in St. Louis....and Smith is the mind behind the great defenses for both teams. although the Rams no longer have the stellar D. They did while they were all there together. I like the continuity of Fewell and Koller who worked together in St. Louis. Is there a chance he will be another Jerry Gray? Sure...but so is anyone else they bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 My snse is that the criteria for selection of a new DC were: 1. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 2. A competent man who can call the defensive plays well. 3. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 4. A compotent man who is a good teacher who helps the players perform. 5. A competent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. 6. A compotent man who can diagnose first half play (and also diagnose things on the fly), choose changes in the Bills D to block the opponent, and implement these changes over the half (or on the fly) so that we make good adjustments. 7. A compotent man who adds value to the TEAM because he will fit in well with the existing staff. Get the point? Bates clearly is a competent man and a defensive guru who meets this consistent criterion that influences all aspects we are looking for. However, after the roller coaster dissension that destroyed this team last season as TD attempted to IMPOSE (as Jerry Sullivan is fond of looking for because he wants a fight that is a good story) the main criterion after wanted a competent DC is that he needs to be on the same page and fit in with the existing staff. I think the $ issue was actually a good test for bates to see whether his priority was gonna be the TEAM or himself. I have no problem with a fellow looking out for #1 (particularly if a big part of #1 is his family or a sick kid- I have no trouble with a Jim Kelly making every dime he can to use for Hunter or to buy meaningless baubles for his wife if that makes her happy and better able to take care of Hunter. I feel the same way about Doug Flutie and his autistic kid). If Bates came it pretty clearly to me would have been a drive-by visit and what he seemed to want was a regular HC gig after gettting a taste as a very good interim HC for Miami. Particularly since Jaurin is a defensive guru and will have a big say in running and installing his system rather than running a Bates system as the Bills primary D, I think it is a legit question whether the job is what Bates wants because its the only DC job available or whether he wants the job because he is committed to the Bills. I for one am quite happy we did not get bates because I think it would have been a struggle at best for him to be on the same page as the rest of the coaching staff and players. Right now I'd rather have folks be on the same page and wrong together rather than have disension where one fellow is right and others are wrong and they fight out. This last method can work in certain circumstances. Ditka and Buddy Ryan fought like cats and dogs but the '85 Bears were good enough that the team worked and won. Marv Levy and whatever the old wunderkind who concerived the K-Gun fought like cats and dogs but Bill Polian was a strong leader and Jimbo and the Boys were good enough to make it work. I have my doubts about whether Ralph can really be a good leader deciding stuff (I hope like heck that he is mostly seen but not heard, he appears to be a nice rich guy but has made some lousy football judgments and also been a bad judge of character trusting the wrong guys). I know dissension would be a great story for Sullivan, but particularly at this juncture I think we most need folks to be on the same page and willing to sacrifice for each other and the team. 589559[/snapback] You make some good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I thought that Tampa Bay was running the Tampa 2 when they won the Super Bowl a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Also, compared to the blitz, blitz, blitz Williams/Gray defensive scheme, I'm happier with a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well, there's always this: perhaps they also realize the great importance of a dominant front four, and are now going to commit a huge effort to obtain one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 But first, I keep reading that this was the last defensive coordinator hire in the league. Who the heck did the Jets hire for defense? I don't see a DC on their website. RE: Fewell, I'm skeptical. First-timer. Sigh. I can't believe the Bills just didn't give Bates another 200K. Disappointing. I'm skeptical because he comes from the Tampa 2 school of defense, which has a history of being good but not great. Many Cover 2 DCs believe in it to the point that they don't believe in scheming or changing things up or disguising coverages. They just line up and dare the offense to beat them. To be good at that, you had better not have any holes that can be exploited. And even if you don't have any gaping holes, like the Colts D or the 05 Bears (which were good but not great) you still can't get far in the playoffs unless you show your opponent something they haven't prepared for. That's what makes the Patriots so consistently good. They understand that you can't give your opponent and edge by being predictable. And Tampa-2 coaches tend to be just that. The Steelers beat the Colts primarily because the Colts weren't ready for what the Steelers showed them and that sent them into catch-up mode. The Steelers had so much for them they kept changing their looks and the Colts were guessing the whole game; that's why their protections broke down. Meanwhile, look what happened to the vaunted Bears D in their first playoff game. They were made to look *very bad* all of a sudden. Because they came out with their standard D, which made it easy to prepare for and scheme around. NO adjustments later, and they were 1 and out. Fewell's secondary was GASHED again and again and again. And most importantly, for this defense to work, you absolutely MUST have a DLine that can get a consistent rush with 4 guys. We have 2 guys in Adams and Schobel who can do it. Kelsay is still unproven and unless Ron Edwards is healthy and re-signed and suddenly great, we'll need a new DT to tie up blockers. A Pat Williams type. Thoughts? 589524[/snapback] what a surprise. Marv returns to the Walt Corey days with a bend but don't break D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well, I do know that when Levy first came to Buffalo in the Mid 80's, he (and Polian) turned over at least a dozen players pretty quickly. If Farrell (haha) really is a cover 2 kind of coach, then it could mean that Buff is about to make some significant turnovers again. That is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well, I do know that when Levy first came to Buffalo in the Mid 80's, he (and Polian) turned over at least a dozen players pretty quickly. If Farrell (haha) really is a cover 2 kind of coach, then it could mean that Buff is about to make some significant turnovers again. That is not a bad thing. 589931[/snapback] They need a Pass Rusher, a interior Linemen, a OLB and probably a CB just for the starters....Then they need depth at FS and SS, MLB and DEs....If they get all that, then that will be a big turnaround..l...... What a football season does to a team.....A team that returned 10 of 11 starters from the previous year and is looking deep down the tube with changes to at least 5 or 6 positions...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Like Mularkey did with Clements? I wouldn't want him to "step in" but I hope he guides him along the right path to being a successful DC. As far as the D line goes, the answer is.... Ngata! 589543[/snapback] He said you need a D line that can get a consistent rush. Ngata is pure run defender, zero pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Bates turned down a $1M offer from the Rams. So another $200K would not have been enough. It's obvious to me Bates just wants to sit on his a$$ and collect his contract from GB. How good can he be with THAT kind of commitment? PTR 589556[/snapback] I don't blame the guy for taking a year off. It's not like he's never going to work again. I know I wouldn't mind taking a paid year off to recharge my battery and then stepping back into work again. I've seen lots of people here pass judgement on Bates for this and I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Well, there's always this: perhaps they also realize the great importance of a dominant front four, and are now going to commit a huge effort to obtain one. That, Rubes, is the best reason for liking this hire--commitment to the kind of players that will let your scheme succeed. It's tailoring the pants to fit the man. Not tailoring the man to fit the pants, like we experienced the last few years. DJ made an average of 9 personnel changes per year. Out of 22. No question we'll see changes, and they will be ones that better our chances of running the Tampa-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 He said you need a D line that can get a consistent rush. Ngata is pure run defender, zero pass rush. 590159[/snapback] I didn't hear what he had to say but if you're looking to add pass rush on the D-line than you sign UFA DT Rocky Bernard (8.5 sacks) and draft DE Mario Williams/Mathias Kiwanuka with our top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 But first, I keep reading that this was the last defensive coordinator hire in the league. Who the heck did the Jets hire for defense? I don't see a DC on their website. RE: Fewell, I'm skeptical. First-timer. Sigh. I can't believe the Bills just didn't give Bates another 200K. Disappointing. I'm skeptical because he comes from the Tampa 2 school of defense, which has a history of being good but not great. Many Cover 2 DCs believe in it to the point that they don't believe in scheming or changing things up or disguising coverages. They just line up and dare the offense to beat them. To be good at that, you had better not have any holes that can be exploited. And even if you don't have any gaping holes, like the Colts D or the 05 Bears (which were good but not great) you still can't get far in the playoffs unless you show your opponent something they haven't prepared for. That's what makes the Patriots so consistently good. They understand that you can't give your opponent and edge by being predictable. And Tampa-2 coaches tend to be just that. The Steelers beat the Colts primarily because the Colts weren't ready for what the Steelers showed them and that sent them into catch-up mode. The Steelers had so much for them they kept changing their looks and the Colts were guessing the whole game; that's why their protections broke down. Meanwhile, look what happened to the vaunted Bears D in their first playoff game. They were made to look *very bad* all of a sudden. Because they came out with their standard D, which made it easy to prepare for and scheme around. NO adjustments later, and they were 1 and out. Fewell's secondary was GASHED again and again and again. And most importantly, for this defense to work, you absolutely MUST have a DLine that can get a consistent rush with 4 guys. We have 2 guys in Adams and Schobel who can do it. Kelsay is still unproven and unless Ron Edwards is healthy and re-signed and suddenly great, we'll need a new DT to tie up blockers. A Pat Williams type. Thoughts? 589524[/snapback] Fewell's hiring doesn't necessarily imply that the Bills are going to play one-gap along the defensive front. He is as likely to implement Jauron's defense as he is Smith's. Jauron used Keith Traylor and Ted Washington in the center of his defense in Chicago, which was anything but an upfield duo. That defense was considered more like Marvin Lewis' Ravens defense. I do have the same concern about the defensive staff being inflexible, and I guess that's just looking at the face value of Jauron. He seems conservative, his awful record indicates to me that he is a bad gameday/adjustments coach, and the one playoff game he reached as HC, he got outsmarted at home, coming off a bye vs. Andy Reid and the Eagles. By all indications, the guy is not exactly cutting edge material and my guess is that Fewell is probably like minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 He's a DB coach. He's had the luxury of working for a very good defensive coach who guided him in developing coverage schemes which worked within his coach's overall defensive gameplan. Now he'll have to devise his own gameplans and guide his unit coaches. He's never had any experience doing this. Am I talking about Jerry Gray or Perry Fewell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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