NYC's WFAN Mike and Mad dog

[Ramius]

The question is from what are we going to take a step back.  With the exception of the second Miami game last year, we were already three steps behind.  If JP can hand the ball off, do a decent play action, and throw a successful screen, he is a step ahead.

 

It's not like he is stepping into Kelly's or Marino's shoes here...  He just has to be better than Bledsoe...

410277[/snapback]

 

Exactly. JP doesnt hafta do much to do better than bledsoe did last season. Its like basically being asked to cook a dish thats better than retatta. If you can boil water in under an hour you are already 3 steps ahead.

[John from Riverside]

Sorry if I hurt your feelings John. I hate to think you're crying like a certain Dolphin who, like you, couldnt take the heat.

 

You are obviously not a moron.

410179[/snapback]

 

Actually....didn't know you were directing at dolphin fans.....

 

Well....carry on....

[Puhonix]

Who the hell would look something up in a dictionary in this day in age?  Never mind that, who owns a dictionary?

410287[/snapback]

you got me there. I cheated. My Dictionary

[RkFast]

Wait a second....a pundit had the audacity to dismiss a team starting a first year QB with ZERO experience? The nerve!

 

For the record, I agree 100% with Mike and the Mad Dog (and Puhonix). JP leads to team to more than 8-8 and it will be a miracle.

[1billsfan]

Wait a second....a pundit had the audacity to dismiss a team starting a first year QB with ZERO experience? The nerve!

 

For the record, I agree 100% with Mike and the Mad Dog (and Puhonix). JP leads to team to more than 8-8 and it will be a miracle.

410342[/snapback]

 

Three things...

1. He's a second year QB

2. MM isn't asking JP to lead this team, McGahee is our bread and butter

3. It'll be a miracle if JP doesn't play better than Bledsoe

 

Turn that frown upside down, they're gonna be much better than you think.

[The Jokeman]

Three things...

1. He's a second year QB

2. MM isn't asking JP to lead this team, McGahee is our bread and butter

3. It'll be a miracle if JP doesn't play better than Bledsoe

 

Turn that frown upside down, they're gonna be much better than you think.

410380[/snapback]

As a follow up.

1. He's a secon year QB in career years yet but in terms of on the field experience he has less than 1 full game of NFL regular season experience.

2. Defenses know that McGahee will be the focus and do everything they can to stop him. Which means JP is going to have to show he can be as good/better than Bledsoe was last year.

3. To expect a first year starting QB to play better than an 11 year veteran like Bledsoe is asking a lot.

 

I'm predicting a 6-10 record in part because of the growing pains of Losman and don't expect the defense and special teams to replicate last years success. Of course I didn't expect us to do as well as we did last year, so I could easily be wrong again.

 

Also for what it's worth here are some stats of QBs who sat their first season and become starters their 2nd and what we might want to expect:

 

16 76.9 320 526 60.8 3284 205.3 6.2 17 16 team record 8-8

13 77.3 263 432 60.9 2897 222.8 6.7 18 18 team record 6-7

15 85.3 302 471 64.1 3227 215.1 6.9 18 13 team record 9-7

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm predicting a 6-10 record in part because of the growing pains of Losman and don't expect the defense and special teams to replicate last years success.  Of course I didn't expect us to do as well as we did last year, so I could easily be wrong again.

410620[/snapback]

Nice to see you admit you may be wrong. I think it quite likely you will be.

 

What do you base your prediction about the defense and special teams not being good this year? Wishful thinking? The Bills defense was ranked #2 in the NFL last year. The only loss was Pat Williams, a nose tackle of average ability. The Bills special teams were ranked #1. Last I checked Bobby April is still calling the shots there.

 

Now let's get back to the QB position. Instead of focusing on Losman's lack of experience, let's look at what the Bills accomplished last year with arguably one of the least effective QB's in the NFL. The Bills won 9 games with Drew Bledsoe. This is a QB who was rendered useless by the blitz. Defenses knew this and keyed on Willis McGahee, and yet he still managed to rush for 1000+ yards in 11 games.

 

Your logic is so weak it's laughable! Losman has already shown he's twice the QB Bledsoe was. McGahee will only be better this year. And the Bills D and ST are already Super Bowl caliber.

 

6-10??? The Jets maybe...not the Bills.

 

PTR

[Kevbeau]

I have to agree with Promo. We only ask JP to be better than Bledsoe. Now that's not asking too much. is it?

[canbuffan34]

Ok, by the dictionary, a rookie is: 1. An untrained or inexperienced recruit, as in the army or police. 2. An inexperienced person; a novice. 3. Sports. A first-year player, especially in a professional sport.

 

Is JP Inexperienced, yes. Is he a first year player, no according to the NFL. According to how much he played last year, MLB would still consider him a rookie. We can argue on this all day and night, so let's move on.

 

He is lacking experience. When he acquires more experience, then start touting him as the second coming of Marino. But for now, let's say, quite honestly, that he's an inexperienced player surrounded by a good team. If he can keep his head in the games, and not make the crucial mistakes, then he'll be fine, and get more confident.

 

As for all you morons reminding me that Big Ben and Tom Brady had great success, let's remember Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith, Marinovich, Tim Couch, Jeff George, Cade McNown... shall I keep going? All drafter higher than Losman.

410085[/snapback]

Not the second coming of Marino, JP LOSMAN IS THE REINCARNATION OF KENNY STABLA... WHEEEET!

[Puhonix]

Three things...

1. He's a second year QB

2. MM isn't asking JP to lead this team, McGahee is our bread and butter

3. It'll be a miracle if JP doesn't play better than Bledsoe

 

Turn that frown upside down, they're gonna be much better than you think.

410380[/snapback]

1. No, he's not. As the jokeman said he's got less that one full drive of NFL experience.

 

2. McGahhe might be your bread and butter, but when they start stacking the line, it'll be interesting to see what you do. Plan to run every down, expect every MLB in the league to be rushing in. So your going to have to throw, and when you throw the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad.

 

3. Bledsoe was so terrible he almost led the team to the playoffs. Expect him to struggle, and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds early.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

Your logic is so weak it's laughable!  Losman has already shown he's twice the QB Bledsoe was.

HIS logic is weak? How on earth has Losman shown he's better than anyone? I'm not saying he won't eventually be twice the QB Bledsoe was, but he certainly hasn't yet shown that he is.

 

6-10???  The Jets maybe...not the Bills.

So the Jets, who were a kicker away from the AFCC game last year and have improved in the offseason, will go 6-10; but the Bills, who missed the playoffs last year despite playing against backups in their elimination game and will be starting a QB with next-to-no experience, will do better.

 

And his logic is weak?

[Puhonix]

I never thought Id say this, but I agree with the Pats fan. <sigh> Losman is twice the QB Bledsoe was.... that has Rettata written all over it.

[RkFast]

I have to agree with Promo. We only ask JP to be better than Bledsoe. Now that's not asking too much. is it?

410647[/snapback]

 

As a matter of fact, YES it is.

 

While Bledsoe didnt exactly play like Johhny U. last year, its setting a HUGE bar to jump.....saying a first year starter with zero experience will play at least as good as an established vet like Bledsoe.

[1billsfan]

1. No, he's not. As the jokeman said he's got less that one full drive of NFL experience.

 

2. McGahhe might be your bread and butter, but when they start stacking the line, it'll be interesting to see what you do. Plan to run every down, expect every MLB in the league to be rushing in. So your going to have to throw, and when you throw the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad.

 

3. Bledsoe was so terrible he almost led the team to the playoffs. Expect him to struggle, and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds early.

410768[/snapback]

 

Yes he is, but I see that you're a Miami fan so I'll excuse your adding skills.

 

Look, you worry about Cheech on your team while I'll remain happy with the knowledge that opposing AFC East teams can no longer tee off on a stationary Bills QB.

[RkFast]

Look, you worry about Cheech on your team while I'll remain happy with the knowledge that opposing AFC East teams can no longer tee off on a stationary Bills QB.

410850[/snapback]

 

That Rob Johnson had good legs.

[Puhonix]

Yes he is, but I see that you're a Miami fan so I'll excuse your adding skills.

 

410850[/snapback]

So, you're telling me that Carson Palmer was not a rookie last year cause he sat on the bench for a season. There's only so much you can learn sitting out and watching.

 

Next time you need surgery, ask to see a surgeon who's read all the books, but hasnt actually done the procedure. You shouldnt be worried, right? After all, he's not a rookie.

[stuckincincy]

2. McGahhe might be your bread and butter, but when they start stacking the line, it'll be interesting to see what you do. Plan to run every down, expect every MLB in the league to be rushing in. So your going to have to throw, and when you throw the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad.

410768[/snapback]

 

That's a dangerous defensive strategy if done to excess. For the last few years, that's what the B'gals did against BAL and PIT, and they got blistered. Eventually the RB pops through and it's off to the races.

 

Newly-acquired guard Anderson is a notable run blocker.

[KD in CA]

HIS logic is weak?  How on earth has Losman shown he's better than anyone?  I'm not saying he won't eventually be twice the QB Bledsoe was, but he certainly hasn't yet shown that he is.

So the Jets, who were a kicker away from the AFCC game last year and have improved in the offseason, will go 6-10; but the Bills, who missed the playoffs last year despite playing against backups in their elimination game and will be starting a QB with next-to-no experience, will do better.

 

And his logic is weak?

410784[/snapback]

 

 

I have to agree with this. I can't stand the Jets, but I don't see the rationale for expecting a collapse from them. Pennington isn't Montana, but he's good enough. They have a solid D, better now with Law, solid OL and good skill players. Curtis Martin is like the housing market -- people have been predicting its collapse for five years now, but it still hasn't happened. Unless it does, I don't see a compelling reason to think the Jets won't be in the hunt for a playoff spot again.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

I have to agree with this.  I can't stand the Jets, but I don't see the rationale for expecting a collapse from them.

Yeah, as much as I hate the idea of it, the Jets will be solid solid team this year, and they have improved on a team that handled itself well in the playoffs last year.

 

Pennington isn't Montana, but he's good enough.

Eveyone rags on Pennington because his arm isn't very strong, but he's very accurate and relatively poised.

[T-Bone]

Yeah, as much as I hate the idea of it, the Jets will be solid solid team this year, and they have improved on a team that handled itself well in the playoffs last year.

Eveyone rags on Pennington because his arm isn't very strong, but he's very accurate and relatively poised.

410883[/snapback]

 

 

People should spend more time paying attention to what Hollywood Donahoe posts and not just dismiss him out of hand....He is one of the few who knows what he is talking about.

[EndZoneCrew]

Who cares...those guys are just retards with a NYC accent who get paid to talk up the Jets....no matter how bad they may be

[Puhonix]

People should spend more time paying attention to what Hollywood Donahoe posts and not just dismiss him out of hand....He is one of the few who knows what he is talking about.

410887[/snapback]

Well, I did agree with him didnt I?

 

Plus, I face the same discrimination, immediately blocked because I like the enemy. Eggs thrown at my house, I cant even go to a decent restaurant without someone yelling at me to "go back to Miami." And If I should ever order Buffalo wings, or New England Clam Chowder, or a New York Strip Steak... oh the shame!

 

Sorry, got carried away, hehe.

[1billsfan]

So, you're telling me that Carson Palmer was not a rookie last year cause he sat on the bench for a season. There's only so much you can learn sitting out and watching.

 

Next time you need surgery, ask to see a surgeon who's read all the books, but hasnt actually done the procedure. You shouldnt be worried, right? After all, he's not a rookie.

410856[/snapback]

 

Luckily football isn't life or death so I'm willing to back Losman thinking he'll be able to handle the job. JP has Evans, Moulds, Parrish and McGahee to throw the ball to...I'm thinking he'll do just fine.

[Puhonix]

Luckily football isn't life or death so I'm willing to back Losman thinking he'll be able to handle the job. JP has Evans, Moulds, Parrish and McGahee to throw the ball to...I'm thinking he'll do just fine.

410899[/snapback]

You left out Reed... now that's funny.

[The Jokeman]

1. No, he's not. As the jokeman said he's got less that one full drive of NFL experience.

 

2. McGahhe might be your bread and butter, but when they start stacking the line, it'll be interesting to see what you do. Plan to run every down, expect every MLB in the league to be rushing in. So your going to have to throw, and when you throw the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad.

 

3. Bledsoe was so terrible he almost led the team to the playoffs. Expect him to struggle, and be pleasantly surprised if he succeeds early.

410768[/snapback]

Your point 2 is an excellent one and think a lot of fans have to understand that teams are going to gear up to stop McGahee and until JP shows he can beat them we could struggle in the earliy going. I admit Bledsoe's play was weak last year but he still had his moments that forced defenses to respect our passing game and as a result open things up for McGahee.

[SouthernMan]

Ever think that starting a rookie QB might actually be a step back? Im not claiming that the Jets will be the best team come playoff time, or that the Fins will shock everyone and compete, but isn't it feasable that starting a QB with no experience is a little bit worse that a seasoned starter?

 

Yeah I know, but Ben did this, and Carson did that. But look at the Colts and Peyton his first year. Look at all the other rookie QBs in the league. Instant success is the exception to the rule.

 

In the long run, JP is the way to go. But dont expect to be in the playoffs yet.

409910[/snapback]

 

 

Statistically, rookie QBs don't measure up to their college hype. But stats can be deceiving. You have to look at the big picture. Typically, a rookie QB is a high draft choice who is playing because he's getting paid well and has to learn sometime. With a team that's got lots room for improvement, no time like the present to start the youngster. Now, you have to think, what teams are starting high round rookie QBs?

Answer: teams that sucked the previous year and are in rebuilding mode. It only stands to reason that no matter who the QB is, the team probably isn't a superbowl or even a playoff contender. It's not unusual for the rookie QB to also have a new coaching staff that the rest of the team is getting acclimated to.

 

The Bills have the players in place. It's not as if there are huge gaps throughout the squad. They had the #1 special teams and #2 defense last year. They had a running back that averaged over 100 yards for each start. They've got a superb fullback. They have experience, talent, and depth and wide receiver. They have an O-line with the benefit of one of the best tutors (McNally) at that position.

A strong running game should take the heat off of JP as far as reading coverages.

 

Besides - Losman is not a rookie. He's had a full year to get aquainted with the team and what it expects from him By all accounts, he's made the most of his opportunity and has been immersing himself in film and the playbook.

 

I don't think Bledsoe's experience is a greater commodity than Losman's accuracy and abilty to get out of the pocket. What good did all of Bledsoe's experience do for him? It sure didn't help him find receivers or avoid the rush! He has no sense of oncoming defenders. Sure can't time a pass on a simple "out" pattern. Rarely ever hit a receiver in stride. More often than not the receiver had to pause and reach back for a pass.

 

I have to laugh when I hear the Bills are weaker at the QB position because they'll miss Bledsoe's experience. Experience is only valuable if you learn from it and coreect weaknesses. Bledsoe's been doing the same lame crap for years. So much for experience. At the very least, Losman has potential. That's more than you could say for Bledsoe at this point in his career.

[Puhonix]

I have to laugh when I hear the Bills are weaker at the QB position because they'll miss Bledsoe's experience. Experience is only valuable if you learn from it and coreect weaknesses. Bledsoe's been doing the same lame crap for years. So much for experience. At the very least, Losman has potential. That's more than you could say for Bledsoe at this point in his career.

411024[/snapback]

Ok, I agree the Bills arent the last place team that usually starts a rookie. JP will have tools around him to work with. But I've also seen the panic on this board due to the OL. I think that might be a major factor in his success.

 

Also, Experience isnt everything, but is valuable, as you said, when you learn from it. JP has none to learn from. Experience isnt everything, but it does matter. Potential is also extremely important, but as you put it, it is potential, something not yet manifested. Give him time and he'll be ok. But don't expect him to step up and lead them to the playoffs.

[RunTheBall]

If you listen to them regularly you know that they're not homers. 

It is correct that they have never liked the Bills however.

409960[/snapback]

 

Well, its tough to be a homer when Mike's head is in Dallas because he's had it wedged so far up Parcell's ass that he can see out of Bill's mouth. Same old drivel day after day.

 

RTB

[Fla Bills Fan]

Ever think that starting a rookie QB might actually be a step back? Im not claiming that the Jets will be the best team come playoff time, or that the Fins will shock everyone and compete, but isn't it feasable that starting a QB with no experience is a little bit worse that a seasoned starter?

 

Yeah I know, but Ben did this, and Carson did that. But look at the Colts and Peyton his first year. Look at all the other rookie QBs in the league. Instant success is the exception to the rule.

 

In the long run, JP is the way to go. But dont expect to be in the playoffs yet.

409910[/snapback]

It is not a step back when the QB he is replacing played worse than 96% of the QB's in the league.

[Nervous Guy]

People should spend more time paying attention to what Hollywood Donahoe posts and not just dismiss him out of hand....He is one of the few who knows what he is talking about.

410887[/snapback]

but we can still dismiss you out of hand, right?

[stuckincincy]

but we can still dismiss you out of hand, right?

411408[/snapback]

 

Talk about setting up a straight line...

 

But I demur.

[Nervous Guy]

Talk about setting up a straight line...

 

But I demur.

411420[/snapback]

[T-Bone]

but we can still dismiss you out of hand, right?

411408[/snapback]

 

Many try and fail, just ask CTM, DG, or VAB

[RkFast]

So today (9/6) MMD are all over the Bills. They have concerns about Losman (and who doesnt?) but are praising the Bills up and down.

 

But they are "retards" and "morons", right?

[eball]

So today (9/6) MMD are all over the Bills. They have concerns about Losman (and who doesnt?) but are praising the Bills up and down.

 

But they are "retards" and "morons", right?

431130[/snapback]

in a word...yes.

 

they change their minds depending on which way the wind blows. i'm actually surprised they aren't french.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

How exactaly have the jets improved?

 

Trading a 1st rd pick for TE Doug Jolley who btw isn't starting?

 

Mike Nugent is a rookie kicker. the same notion that applies with Bledsoe to Losman applies here as well to Nugent to Doug Brien. While Nugent I believe will be a good nfl kicker he's a rookie so it's not unreasonable to expect falloff.

 

 

Do you improve by losing a starting offensive linemen? Who exactaly are the jets gonna replace Kareem Mckenzie with?

 

Losing Offensive coordinator Paul Hackett. While Hackett isn't the greatest offensive coordinator in the world he's been good enough to lead the jets offense to the #3 rushing offense in the league last season(their bread and butter) to compliment their stingy defense. Coordinator Mike Heimerdinger who replaces hackett brings a system that on paper looks like it doesn't suit Chad Penningtons strengths. Throwing deeper routes, more passing, take catches away from the fullback and using sowell in more of a blocking role, and generally more passing less running. With a qb coming off shoulder surgery who had questions about arm strength to begin with. It doesn't seem like a great system for him. On paper anyway.

 

Do you improve your team by losing your best run stoping dt? Josh Ferguson was the cog in the jets dline. The same stuff bills fans hear "Our defense will take a hit we lost pat williams" for some odd reason escapes those that talk about the jets when they forget to mention they lost Josh Ferguson.

 

Curtis Martin is another year older. btw this is what happened the last time martin had t330 carries in a season he followed up with a poor year the following year

 

2001 nyj | 16 | 333 1513 4.5 10

 

2002 nyj | 16 | 261 1094 4.2 7

 

Is it entirely unreasonable to expect a dropoff this year, especially considering martin is on the wrong side of 30. Also they lost Lamont Jordan is derrick blaylock as good as Jordan I doubt it?

 

When you look beneath the surface at the jets on paper they have just as many questions at us. To say they're a lock for the playoffs or are in a shoe in to challenge the pats more so than us is just flat out being ignorant and ignoring several glaring problems with the jets. The Patriots are the team to beat, but I personally don't see how the jets are better then us at all.

[Ted William's frozen head]

F those NYC homer A-holes. i wish that they'd rate the Bills as 31st in the league.it will be that much sweeter when we embarrass the Jet$

[RuntheDamnBall]

Curtis Martin is another year older. btw this is what happened the last time martin had t330 carries in a season he followed up with a poor year the following year

 

2001 nyj |  16 |   333   1513    4.5   10

 

2002 nyj |  16 |   261   1094    4.2    7

431158[/snapback]

16 284 1128 4.0 13

 

Those numbers are Willis McGahee's from last year. Tell me, did he have a poor year?

 

Looks pretty similar to me. I know McGahee started less games, but he also averaged less YPC and got more carries. He did get 6 more TDs, which is pretty nice

[Nanker]

So today (9/6) MMD are all over the Bills. They have concerns about Losman (and who doesnt?) but are praising the Bills up and down.

 

But they are "retards" and "morons", right?

431130[/snapback]

 

Let the people decide.

Here's MMD webpage. They don't have today's banter on it, but they do have the August 16th sessions that started this foll-de-roll.

 

Mike and the Angry Puppy