A Few Thoughts about the Bengals Game - Community Edition

[billsfan714]

My 2 cents.   If we could ever get Josh a defense this team might really be something. The 3 tds on the Bengals first 3 drives, well that was just atrocious defense.   We could of hung 40 plus on the Bengals even without the defensive TD as Cook had the fumbles deep in their zone.  The TE performance was largely a result of the Bengals being the absolute worst team in the league at covering TEs, and by a wide margin.

 

I remain in the camp, until we get this defense fixed, there is no championship in our future, it was another game of taking more than 32 to win at home.  People can talk about Brady and the receivers all day long, to me the elephant in the room continues to be(year after year) how bad the defense is, especially when they dont get turnovers. 

[transient]

20 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Awesome  ...

I can't wait for  ...

A Few Thoughts about the Bengals Game - PRIVATE Edition

PLEASE, take my username and password for @Virgil's "A Few Thoughts about the Bengals Game - OnlyFans Edition". I DON'T WANT IT ANYMORE. I thought the name was peculiar, but then "Fans"... NFL... maybe it makes sense... it wasn't what I was expecting... 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Not to steal @Just Jack's thunder, but I'd like to think that I willed the Bills to win by starting this write up a few minutes before the Benford pick six.  I was at my second thought, seething about our defense and what McD brings to the table if his defense sucks, and then we score 21 points in four minutes.  Did the win talk me off the ledge?  A little.  Do many games come down to a few plays?  Yes.  Are we severely injured?  Yes.  Even with all of that, I'm just tired of us not showing up for the games until half time.

 

1 - Hold my beer - I have this image in my head of McD talking to Benford, asking if he's okay coving the most explosive receiver in the NFL, and Benford just smirking at him.  McD then pulls him aside again, asking for a spark, to which Benford gets the first sack of the game.  Lastly, watching the time expire and the Bengals seemingly getting their offensive momentum back, Benford goes pure Thanos "Fine, I'll do it myself," and gets the pick six.  I mean honestly, while we have Superman on the offense, we apparently now have Batman on the defense.  To completely shut down Chase so much that they had to move him to the slot just so he could get a catch is insane.  That pick six, while shaking off a dejected Burrow on his way to the end zone, while Chase got to play defender and lose...wow.   To know that we can now take away the opposing teams main receiver is a huge boost to the defense and brings Beane's success rate up to 50% for offseason extensions.   

 

2- Superman likes it cold - In a game where we saw masterful throws by both QB's, Josh showed off what sets himself apart from the rest of the elite.  Running Josh is back and it was beautiful.  Not only did he show elusiveness in the backfield, he showed speed on the long td run, and elusiveness on the final 3rd and 15 game sealing run.  I also believe that Josh plays better when Knox is more involved in the game plan.  In a game where the receivers again weren't a focal point, Josh put up over 300 total yards and 4 touchdowns.  He out-dueled a Burrow who played a monster game.

 

3 - Rushing attack - Cook picked a really bad time in the season to get a case of fumbleitis.  The fumble into the endzone could have been the dagger in this game.  You could feel the energy leave the stadium until Josh's 40 yard touchdown run.  Cook ran good outside of that, but not enough to compensate for the mistake.  As for the rest of the backs, I don't understand why Davis didn't see more touches.  Ty Johnson had two big mistakes on the first drive, as he slipped on a clear TD run.  Then, on the 3rd and 2 near the goal line, Johnson made no attempt to sell the handoff run on the option play.  

 

4 - Receivers - Two games in a row now where the receivers are almost non-existent.  Yes, Coleman and Shakir each caught a touchdown, but the receivers were mainly irrelevant.  Gabe led the receivers in snaps, which I assume is more for his blocking ability.  I do appreciate that Coleman isn't being handed back his snap count share.  It would have been nice to see us take some shots deep, as the Bengals were playing only one safety deep for most of the game.  I also liked to see Cooks getting in on the blocking action on Josh's long td run.

 

5 - Burrow - I don't know the last time I've seen a QB make so many touch throws look effortless.  The Bengals carved up the Bills defense on the first three drives.  Yes, a lot of that was on the Bills defense with their soft zone.  However, Burrow made a lot of high point throws where he gave his receivers the opportunity to make a play, and they responded kindly.  There were quite a few passes where I don't know how the Bills defender could have covered any better, and the receiver just made a play.  However, the Fitzpatrick curse got to Burrow with those two interceptions.  On both, I don't know why he made either throw.  Benford was right in front of him and Phillips had his arm up in his face on both throws.  

 

6 - Defense - I can understand the defensive game plan of wanting to respect the run and prevent the big play.  But you can't just give Burrow all day to throw.  Groot and AJ are incapable of rushing the passer and we were only able to generate pressure when we blitzed.  However, you can also tell we don't practice blitzes enough because there were some massive coverage gaps due to communication in the secondary when we did.  Third downs were as abysmal as ever.  Our run defense was good enough, but it was overall a rough day for Cam, TJ, and Tre.  Poyer appeared to be playing well and I'm hoping Bishop's injury isn't anything serious.  From a comparison standpoint, the Bills had to convert multiple 4th downs in the first half, and we were overall outplayed by the Bengals defense in that half.  That's unacceptable.  

 

7 - Special Teams - Prater picked a good day to not miss an extra point.  Our KO units were an opportunity.  We gave up multiple returns past the 30 while we struggled to get back to the 20 on multiple kick-offs.  Not sure what the issue is here, but I feel like this unit has been very up and down this season.

 

8 - Spencer - Hopefully he can come back healthy soon, because Van Demark had a rough day.  Not only did he have two holding penalties, but he was beat both inside and out throughout the game.  Most of Josh's pressure came from his side.  Granted, we survived, but I don't know if he should even be a primary back up for us, as he looks lost out there at times.  

 

9 - Gesicki - I'm sorry, but ***** him.  I can understand players getting hyped after a good play, but he seemed to be really relishing in his success out there.  Maybe it's from his Dolphins tenure, but I felt like he was taunting us all game.  His catch on the Bengals last drive was a killer on Cam and he had an overall good game. But again, ***** him.

 

10 - Chicken or the Egg - Should out to Knox for putting up numbers we haven't seen in years.  This is the type of game that I believe Knox is very capable of having more of.  I know he's had his share of drops and is a better blocker than Kincaid, but I feel like we need to try and have more gameplays like this.  Knox and Kincaid running free is very difficult to defend, occupies the safeties, makes play action more effective, and makes the running game so much better.  Now, was this a result of the Bengals defense being comically bad against the Tight Ends?  Maybe.  Either way, Knox is a capable playmaker and I hope to see more of it.  

 

Bonus - Did we find out why McD burned a TO prior to an extra point?  And don't think I forgot about his other wasted TO before a 3rd and short, that the Bengals ultimately converted.

 

 

We are on to the most meaningful game left on our schedule with the Pats. We are either going to be in the hunt for the division after this next game, or trying to lock up the wild card so we can take week 18 off.  With the Broncos winning, the 1 seed seems very unlikely, so hopefully we can get things sorted out prior to week 18.  

 

Go Bills!!!!

 

1 hour ago, Marv Levy said:

THIS! I was wondering out loud why the hell he would do this? If it accomplished anything, I really don't know what it was?! Seemed like a gigantic waste of a TO.

 

34 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

I have a theory.  If you watch the replays, MCD got caught up in the moment and was out on the field running toward the endzone too.  My guess is they had to take a beat and gather themselves on the sideline. It was a monstrous moment that swept up the entire bench.

 

I assume it was conditions.  Timeout gives you a chance to feel the wind, pick a hash, clear a good spot, etc.  Getting to +4 vs. +3 is probably more valuable than the timeout, and pushing your XP back 5 yards in a snow game for delay of game would be brutal if he missed.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Bleeding Bills Blue

[stlbills13]

Here we go again 

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

My 2 cents.   If we could ever get Josh a defense this team might really be something. The 3 tds on the Bengals first 3 drives, well that was just atrocious defense.   We could of hung 40 plus on the Bengals even without the defensive TD as Cook had the fumbles deep in their zone.  The TE performance was largely a result of the Bengals being the absolute worst team in the league at covering TEs, and by a wide margin.

 

I remain in the camp, until we get this defense fixed, there is no championship in our future, it was another game of taking more than 32 to win at home.  People can talk about Brady and the receivers all day long, to me the elephant in the room continues to be(year after year) how bad the defense is, especially when they dont get turnovers. 

The Bengals were about the hottest team in the NFL before this week, and Buffalo had the #1 defense against the pass. Higgins was out there playing with a concussion, and as someone else mentioned, he was literally playing out of his mind as he had 11 targets, caught 6 passes for 92 yards, and 2 TDs. Christian Benford had Ja"Marr Chase on lockdown as he had 8 targets, 5 receptions for 44 yards.

 

If Buffalo had a defensive weakness prior to this game, it was their rush defense, and they held the Bengals lead RB Chase Brown to 12 rushes for 23 yards, which was a 1.9 yards per carry average. 

 

I read here so often Bills fans complaining about how bad the Bills GM is with signing these old players and what a bad job he has done. Let me say that the leading tackler in that Bengals game was Jordan Poyer with Shaq Thompson right behind him, and that latter signing has greatly improved the rush defense.

 

Let's not forget that the Bengals put so much money into signing their receivers Chase, Higgins, and Gesicki. QB Joe Burrow took his team to the Super Bowl not that long ago. The one team that had most AFC teams that were afraid to face in the playoffs was Cincinnati.

 

The Buffalo Bills did well to beat them, and as much as their superstar elite alien unicorn QB made some great plays, it was the Buffalo defense that really was the game breaker with the pick six by Benford and another INT right after by AJ Epenesa.  Christian Benford had a game with the only sack on Burrow and a pick-six. Defense, yeah! Team effort won the game. My 2 cents. 

[Cray51]

I know the receivers are an issue, however the last two games have been challenging to measure them as a unit.

 

1) Wind last week was a major issue, neither team threw the ball downfield much at all

2) Cooks is slowly being worked in, last week he only played a few snaps

3) Run heavy schemes bring in Shavers/Davis/TEs, which will adjust how the passing game is driven

 

I will say, Cooks is getting open.  There were several times where he was putting his hand up with some sort of separation, but he was downfield and that's  a challenging throw given the weather.

[ticketssince61]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

I really don’t like how we let them score so easily on their last drive. That was absurd. 
 

We’re lucky that Taylor bafflingly did not try an onside kick. It would have been a butt clencher. 

 

Our defensive modus operandi all year is to play soft, not let up the big play,  and keep everything in front of us (which many posters disagree with)

 

Then at the point in the game WHERE THIS DOES MAKE SENSE we let them go 70 yards in 50 seconds in 4 plays!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

Not to steal @Just Jack's thunder, but I'd like to think that I willed the Bills to win by starting this write up a few minutes before the Benford pick six.  I was at my second thought, seething about our defense and what McD brings to the table if his defense sucks, and then we score 21 points in four minutes.  Did the win talk me off the ledge?  A little.  Do many games come down to a few plays?  Yes.  Are we severely injured?  Yes.  Even with all of that, I'm just tired of us not showing up for the games until half time.

 

1 - Hold my beer - I have this image in my head of McD talking to Benford, asking if he's okay coving the most explosive receiver in the NFL, and Benford just smirking at him.  McD then pulls him aside again, asking for a spark, to which Benford gets the first sack of the game.  Lastly, watching the time expire and the Bengals seemingly getting their offensive momentum back, Benford goes pure Thanos "Fine, I'll do it myself," and gets the pick six.  I mean honestly, while we have Superman on the offense, we apparently now have Batman on the defense.  To completely shut down Chase so much that they had to move him to the slot just so he could get a catch is insane.  That pick six, while shaking off a dejected Burrow on his way to the end zone, while Chase got to play defender and lose...wow.   To know that we can now take away the opposing teams main receiver is a huge boost to the defense and brings Beane's success rate up to 50% for offseason extensions.   

 

2- Superman likes it cold - In a game where we saw masterful throws by both QB's, Josh showed off what sets himself apart from the rest of the elite.  Running Josh is back and it was beautiful.  Not only did he show elusiveness in the backfield, he showed speed on the long td run, and elusiveness on the final 3rd and 15 game sealing run.  I also believe that Josh plays better when Knox is more involved in the game plan.  In a game where the receivers again weren't a focal point, Josh put up over 300 total yards and 4 touchdowns.  He out-dueled a Burrow who played a monster game.

 

3 - Rushing attack - Cook picked a really bad time in the season to get a case of fumbleitis.  The fumble into the endzone could have been the dagger in this game.  You could feel the energy leave the stadium until Josh's 40 yard touchdown run.  Cook ran good outside of that, but not enough to compensate for the mistake.  As for the rest of the backs, I don't understand why Davis didn't see more touches.  Ty Johnson had two big mistakes on the first drive, as he slipped on a clear TD run.  Then, on the 3rd and 2 near the goal line, Johnson made no attempt to sell the handoff run on the option play.  

 

4 - Receivers - Two games in a row now where the receivers are almost non-existent.  Yes, Coleman and Shakir each caught a touchdown, but the receivers were mainly irrelevant.  Gabe led the receivers in snaps, which I assume is more for his blocking ability.  I do appreciate that Coleman isn't being handed back his snap count share.  It would have been nice to see us take some shots deep, as the Bengals were playing only one safety deep for most of the game.  I also liked to see Cooks getting in on the blocking action on Josh's long td run.

 

5 - Burrow - I don't know the last time I've seen a QB make so many touch throws look effortless.  The Bengals carved up the Bills defense on the first three drives.  Yes, a lot of that was on the Bills defense with their soft zone.  However, Burrow made a lot of high point throws where he gave his receivers the opportunity to make a play, and they responded kindly.  There were quite a few passes where I don't know how the Bills defender could have covered any better, and the receiver just made a play.  However, the Fitzpatrick curse got to Burrow with those two interceptions.  On both, I don't know why he made either throw.  Benford was right in front of him and Phillips had his arm up in his face on both throws.  

 

6 - Defense - I can understand the defensive game plan of wanting to respect the run and prevent the big play.  But you can't just give Burrow all day to throw.  Groot and AJ are incapable of rushing the passer and we were only able to generate pressure when we blitzed.  However, you can also tell we don't practice blitzes enough because there were some massive coverage gaps due to communication in the secondary when we did.  Third downs were as abysmal as ever.  Our run defense was good enough, but it was overall a rough day for Cam, TJ, and Tre.  Poyer appeared to be playing well and I'm hoping Bishop's injury isn't anything serious.  From a comparison standpoint, the Bills had to convert multiple 4th downs in the first half, and we were overall outplayed by the Bengals defense in that half.  That's unacceptable.  

 

7 - Special Teams - Prater picked a good day to not miss an extra point.  Our KO units were an opportunity.  We gave up multiple returns past the 30 while we struggled to get back to the 20 on multiple kick-offs.  Not sure what the issue is here, but I feel like this unit has been very up and down this season.

 

8 - Spencer - Hopefully he can come back healthy soon, because Van Demark had a rough day.  Not only did he have two holding penalties, but he was beat both inside and out throughout the game.  Most of Josh's pressure came from his side.  Granted, we survived, but I don't know if he should even be a primary back up for us, as he looks lost out there at times.  

 

9 - Gesicki - I'm sorry, but ***** him.  I can understand players getting hyped after a good play, but he seemed to be really relishing in his success out there.  Maybe it's from his Dolphins tenure, but I felt like he was taunting us all game.  His catch on the Bengals last drive was a killer on Cam and he had an overall good game. But again, ***** him.

 

10 - Chicken or the Egg - Should out to Knox for putting up numbers we haven't seen in years.  This is the type of game that I believe Knox is very capable of having more of.  I know he's had his share of drops and is a better blocker than Kincaid, but I feel like we need to try and have more gameplays like this.  Knox and Kincaid running free is very difficult to defend, occupies the safeties, makes play action more effective, and makes the running game so much better.  Now, was this a result of the Bengals defense being comically bad against the Tight Ends?  Maybe.  Either way, Knox is a capable playmaker and I hope to see more of it.  

 

Bonus - Did we find out why McD burned a TO prior to an extra point?  And don't think I forgot about his other wasted TO before a 3rd and short, that the Bengals ultimately converted.

 

 

We are on to the most meaningful game left on our schedule with the Pats. We are either going to be in the hunt for the division after this next game, or trying to lock up the wild card so we can take week 18 off.  With the Broncos winning, the 1 seed seems very unlikely, so hopefully we can get things sorted out prior to week 18.  

 

Go Bills!!!!

 

1    Yeah surprising not more comments on Chase not being able to catch Benford.  That was a bit surprising.

 

3    Not sure I'd call Johnson slipping on  a snow covered field a mistake, just somethign that's part of the game.

 

4  Both teams were playing on the same field so hard to totally excuse it, but I'd think easier for a bigger heavier TE to get better footing on a snow covered field so may have been why Allen  didn't really nook to WR much during the game.

 

Bonus     I'm guessing the Bills took too much time celebrating after the TD, they would have got called for a delay of game penalty on extra point, so he called TO??  When I was watching I was thinking, come one get out there and kick the point so I do think the clock was running out.

[ticketssince61]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

Not to steal @Just Jack's thunder, but I'd like to think that I willed the Bills to win by starting this write up a few minutes before the Benford pick six.  I was at my second thought, seething about our defense and what McD brings to the table if his defense sucks, and then we score 21 points in four minutes.  Did the win talk me off the ledge?  A little.  Do many games come down to a few plays?  Yes.  Are we severely injured?  Yes.  Even with all of that, I'm just tired of us not showing up for the games until half time.

 

We are on to the most meaningful game left on our schedule with the Pats. We are either going to be in the hunt for the division after this next game, or trying to lock up the wild card so we can take week 18 off.  With the Broncos winning, the 1 seed seems very unlikely, so hopefully we can get things sorted out prior to week 18.  

 

Go Bills!!!!

 

Love your posts - very objective and generally spot on

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

I really don’t like how we let them score so easily on their last drive. That was absurd. 
 

We’re lucky that Taylor bafflingly did not try an onside kick. It would have been a butt clencher. 

Taylor is an idiot…snow covered field, slippery ball, the best time to have an onside kick.

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

#5.  Last time we saw a QB pick us apart on short passes, pretty much the entire history of the Tom Brady Era.  The de was ridiculous in the first quarter, they were so deep.  On his two ints, i think both were reasonable attempts, Benford just had perfect height and timing, on the next, that is like 50% of NFL passes, sometimes the D Line gets their paws up and Phillips got his hand on one and we got lucky.  I attribute both picks to better D than terrible Burrow decisions.

 

Regarding TEs, no love for Hawes.  He made two critical receptions including that 4th d TD conversion where he non-nonchalantly held up his hands like saying gee whiz that was easy.

 

And no pass rush, I will chalk that up to the slippery field.

 

Bonus on the time out.  I can only imagine McD was flusterd as whether  or not kick the extra point or go for two.

Edited 56 minutes ago by RoyBatty is alive

[No_Matter_What]

Virgil's OPs have become too negative for me, but we've already discussed that so no point in doing it again.

 

I'd just like to add one thought. I already said in post game thread that McDermott gets a lot of heat for being too conservative, but he was as aggressive as needed in this game (apart from kicking the first FG, which was a good decision imo). After that, we went for each 4th down.

 

He especially deserves credit for going for it on 4&goal with 3.09 min to go up 32-28 from 3 yard line. It required some Allen magic (with help from OL and Hawes), but it was bold and good decision anyway.

[RochesterLifer]

1 hour ago, Cray51 said:

I know the receivers are an issue, however the last two games have been challenging to measure them as a unit.

 

1) Wind last week was a major issue, neither team threw the ball downfield much at all

2) Cooks is slowly being worked in, last week he only played a few snaps

3) Run heavy schemes bring in Shavers/Davis/TEs, which will adjust how the passing game is driven

 

I will say, Cooks is getting open.  There were several times where he was putting his hand up with some sort of separation, but he was downfield and that's  a challenging throw given the weather.

Cooks getting open downfield will cure a lot of offensive ills for us.