Is it the receivers or Brady

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Brady's passing game scheme seems to be "run to this spot and turn around".  He is so incredibly limited in his passing game that he cannot come up with plays that allow the most physically gifted QB of all time to be successful.  And I am so tired of hearing about how horrible the WRs are.  There is speed and skill with Samuel, Moore, Shakir, and Palmer.  They have been solid WRs with other teams.  Brady values blocking skill more than pass catching because he doesn't have a clue how to use speed and elusiveness in passing routes.  He creates no confusion and allows the DBs to just sit back and cover the easily predictable routes.  It is criminal that the Bills didn't even interview outside OCs before handing the keys to Brady.  

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Brady's passing game scheme seems to be "run to this spot and turn around".  He is so incredibly limited in his passing game that he cannot come up with plays that allow the most physically gifted QB of all time to be successful.  And I am so tired of hearing about how horrible the WRs are.  There is speed and skill with Samuel, Moore, Shakir, and Palmer.  They have been solid WRs with other teams.  Brady values blocking skill more than pass catching because he doesn't have a clue how to use speed and elusiveness in passing routes.  He creates no confusion and allows the DBs to just sit back and cover the easily predictable routes.  It is criminal that the Bills didn't even interview outside OCs before handing the keys to Brady.  

That group has combined for as many 900 yard receiving seasons as you and I. They have 2 combined seasons over 800 yards and if you drop that number to 700, they have 1 more for 3 total. For context, Hollywood Brown has 3 such seasons with 1,000 yard season as one of them. Shakir, Palmer and Moore have combined for as many TDs as Gabe Davis and not one of us thought he was acceptable as a number 2. 🤣🤣

Edited 7 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[nuklz2594]

waiting for Brady to call marv levy up and learn the wing t or even the wishbone at this point

[Livinginthepast]

What I have seen so far this season watching the Bills opponents or other games in the NFL is that the same or lesser talent on other offenses are getting open in various areas of the field. The passing attack of these teams also seems to look a lot more polished in execution from the snap, to the QB's footwork, to the release. Sometimes the Bills appear to be a team that has a new QB passing to receivers who he doesn't know or its preseason and the receivers are not quite giving it 100% or even worse, dont know where they are supposed to be. Its really bizarre to me that it looks this disjointed at this point of the season.  To me that says scheme is the problem. An NFL receiver should be able to get separation and get some space even in the most smothering of defenses.

[Kirby Jackson]

46 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

What I have seen so far this season watching the Bills opponents or other games in the NFL is that the same or lesser talent on other offenses are getting open in various areas of the field. The passing attack of these teams also seems to look a lot more polished in execution from the snap, to the QB's footwork, to the release. Sometimes the Bills appear to be a team that has a new QB passing to receivers who he doesn't know or its preseason and the receivers are not quite giving it 100% or even worse, dont know where they are supposed to be. Its really bizarre to me that it looks this disjointed at this point of the season.  To me that says scheme is the problem. An NFL receiver should be able to get separation and get some space even in the most smothering of defenses.

Which teams specifically with “lesser talent” are you referring to? I don’t believe that there’s a team with “lesser talent” but I’d be interested to hear who. 

[Livinginthepast]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Which teams specifically with “lesser talent” are you referring to? I don’t believe that there’s a team with “lesser talent” but I’d be interested to hear who. 

Miami first game they had the better talent  but last Sunday (aside from Waddle) we are equal, Atlanta (arguable but I would say lesser at that stage because we hadnt got some injuries yet), New Orleans (definitely lesser and they were keeping themselves in the game with getting open for a  young QB), Patriots (which I would say at that stage we appeared to be equal to in the talent dept, but not anymore).

 

The Carolina game, our defense did a great job closing them down (but that is also due to Dalton's ineptitude). The Jets game we also took advantage of a deer in the headlights QB performance by Fields. Both teams had lesser talent than us but still schemed guys open. Their QBs couldnt find them or by the time they did, we had closed them down.

 

I just dont buy the excuse that these receivers are incapable of getting open. I swear if they just had Allen draw the plays in the dirt we could get guys open better than Brady sometimes. 

[ScottishBills]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

What I have seen so far this season watching the Bills opponents or other games in the NFL is that the same or lesser talent on other offenses are getting open in various areas of the field. The passing attack of these teams also seems to look a lot more polished in execution from the snap, to the QB's footwork, to the release. Sometimes the Bills appear to be a team that has a new QB passing to receivers who he doesn't know or its preseason and the receivers are not quite giving it 100% or even worse, dont know where they are supposed to be. Its really bizarre to me that it looks this disjointed at this point of the season.  To me that says scheme is the problem. An NFL receiver should be able to get separation and get some space even in the most smothering of defenses.

 

Agree 100%

 

And from both sides:

 

AVERAGE TALENT

The Saints with the ghost of Derek Carr last year had rasheed running wild deep down the field. And MVS who we couldn't get to 20 yards in a game.

Tez Johnson already has more highlight touchdown catches than all the Bills combined

Wandale Robinson has 600+ yards goddamit man. In Week 11. Thats a career year for our guys!!.

Quentin Johnston is a worse catcher than me but is always running free

Kendrick ***** Bourne has a 150 yard game with Mac ***** Jones!!! 🤣🤣

 

SCHEMED OPEN

Watch Amon Ra or Davante (when Puka doesnt play) - they are largely the only receiver to be accounted for - and they are catching the ball in 5 yards of space on money downs. We cant find 2 yards of space?

Their OCs are actually scheming them wide open, even when everyone in the building knows the ball is going to them

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I just hope Allen doesn’t go the route of Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

Miami first game they had the better talent  but last Sunday (aside from Waddle) we are equal, Atlanta (arguable but I would say lesser at that stage because we hadnt got some injuries yet), New Orleans (definitely lesser and they were keeping themselves in the game with getting open for a  young QB), Patriots (which I would say at that stage we appeared to be equal to in the talent dept, but not anymore).

 

The Carolina game, our defense did a great job closing them down (but that is also due to Dalton's ineptitude). The Jets game we also took advantage of a deer in the headlights QB performance by Fields. Both teams had lesser talent than us but still schemed guys open. Their QBs couldnt find them or by the time they did, we had closed them down.

 

I just dont buy the excuse that these receivers are incapable of getting open. I swear if they just had Allen draw the plays in the dirt we could get guys open better than Brady sometimes. 

I can’t give you Atlanta when they have Drake London. He had 16 targets against us. His 17 game pace is 113/1468/13. That’s a better year than any Bills receiver has ever had. When Mooney is healthy, he too, is better than every Bills receiver. 
 

No to the Saints. Olave is way better than anyone that we have and we all pretty much agreed that Shaheed would represent a big upgrade. Those guys are better than ours (or at least certainly were before the Shaheed trade).

 

The Patriots isn’t much of a dicscussion either. Diggs and Boutte are both better than all Bills receivers. 
 

Maybe you could make a case for a beat up Miami but they have a guy. They have a guy that has killed us. The Bills offered a 1st and 3rd for that guy. He is so much better than anyone that we have. The Jets also have a guy that’s great. Our 2-5 may be better than theirs but the gap in 1’s is so large that I’d pick the Jets (like Miami).

 

Carolina is interesting because they have more talent but may not be better. Tet McMillian might be a 1k guy but the rest of them aren’t great. You could make an argument that we are similar.

Edited 5 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

Shakir isn’t even being used as a receiver. 
 

He's basically an extended handoff running back in this offense. 

Agreed SC, and I believe McD again behind closed doors is raking Brady over the coals to get moving with a downfield game.

[Bill from NYC]

Receivers, no doubt.

 

Whenever there is a lack of talent on a team, many fans love to blame the scheme. I heard this all through the entire drought, especially about the OL. Now we have talented blockers and suddenly the OL is good. It isn't a coincidence.

 

It makes many fans feel better and more hopeful to blame the scheme instead of the players. The truth is that our QB is first rate and our wrs are second rate. McDermott cares mostly about defensive tackles and cornerbacks. This has been staring at us in the face since his arrival.

[Kelly to Allen]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Josh had 23 passes 10 yards or less a bulk of those were 5 yards to behind the los. Thats more than half his passes.
 

He isn’t Tom Brady and he is never going to be. It is not what makes Allen special. I can’t believe how many people want to turn him into something he isn’t instead of embracing what has made him one of the best QBs in the league over the last several years. 
 

Throwing 3 yard passes all game every game has already shown it’s a flawed strategy. For that you need receivers that open early, a quick release precision QB, and receivers that excell at YAC. We have one of those but easy to take out one player. 

His comp was always an Elway archetype but the gunslinger favre was. I agree with you 

 

If it was up but to me I would have Josh Allen with lightning fast wrs and go spread 4-5 wrs all game , no huddle and have Alan throw for 6,000 yards but I'm just a fan bro

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Don Otreply]

Scheme, and personnel usage, both fall on the OC , 

Edited 1 hour ago by Don Otreply

[Watching since 1964]

 

My apologies if this been posted here previously.

 

Greg Cosell discusses the reasons he sees watching the tape why Buffalo’s pass game has issues starting around the at the 8min 15sec mark.

 

Partial summary..l

 

“I think the concepts, for NFL standards, are somewhat elementary.

 

I don’t think they do a lot of things, in terms of their concepts and their route combinations.

 

And I think that, when you combine that with the fact that Josh Allen, at times, and he’s always been like this, he will leave the pocket prematurely, and not neccessarily trust the process, and deliver the ball within structure uh, that is presented, however basic it is, then you get a combination that just makes it difficult for a pass game to have consistency.”
 

He goes on to discuss that you still can do a lot of things tactically, even without great receivers with rooute concepts and combinations…

 

 

[DeltaDigital]

Both.