Hot Take: “Old Joe” Flacco exposing what some (including me) suspected…

[eball]

…that perhaps Joe Burrow ain’t so “elite” and is more the product of a pretty fantastic set of weapons.  Flame away.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by eball

[zow2]

I'm not buying all of that.  If that was the case Jake Browning would have moved the offense but he was completely ineffective.  I think Flacco's accuracy and ball placement is really high level and gives those guys a chance to make plays.  Joe obviously has the experience to understand what defenses are trying to do and disguise.  So the combo of Flacco and those elite receivers is better than what anyone could have imagined.  He wasn't this effective on the Browns obviously.

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

…that perhaps Joe Burrow ain’t so “elite” and is more the product of a pretty fantastic set of weapons.  Flame away.

 

 

4 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I'm not buying all of that.  If that was the case Jake Browning would have moved the offense but he was completely ineffective.  I think Flacco's accuracy and ball placement is really high level and gives those guys a chance to make plays.  Joe obviously has the experience to understand what defenses are trying to do and disguise.  So the combo of Flacco and those elite receivers is better than what anyone could have imagined.  He wasn't this effective on the Browns obviously.

Browning looked okay 2 years ago.

 

It’s not really novel at the NFL level.

 

Jalen Hurts benefits from all star receivers. So does Matt Stafford. So does Burrow. So did Tom Brady in Tampa.

 

Great targets make QBs look better. There’s an OBVIOUS corollary there that is flatly rejected around these parts, but say the emperor has no clothes in Cincy. That’s crazy to me. 

Edited 2 hours ago by FireChans

[JGMcD2]

We saw it when Jake Browning had them on the cusp of the playoffs in 2023 when Burrow went down. 
 

Burrow threw 5 touchdowns to 2 interceptions in their four game run to the Super Bowl in 2021. His defense allowed an average of 20 points in those 4 games, while his offense averaged 23. 
 

He came into the league with a silver spoon in his mouth because of the Heisman and National Championship win. He’s extremely talented, but he’s also part of the reason why his team is terrible. 
 

He’s always hurt and he took a fat contract, while also pleading with ownership to pay his two WR fat contracts. They don’t and can’t have the components it takes to win football games. 

[MPL]

I once heard someone describe Joe Burrow as "fancy Kirk Cousins."  I'm still laughing about that. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

We saw it when Jake Browning had them on the cusp of the playoffs in 2023 when Burrow went down. 
 

Burrow threw 5 touchdowns to 2 interceptions in their four game run to the Super Bowl in 2021. His defense allowed an average of 20 points in those 4 games, while his offense averaged 23. 
 

He came into the league with a silver spoon in his mouth because of the Heisman and National Championship win. He’s extremely talented, but he’s also part of the reason why his team is terrible. 
 

He’s always hurt and he took a fat contract, while also pleading with ownership to pay his two WR fat contracts. They don’t and can’t have the components it takes to win football games. 

We all know Joe Burrow was drafted #1 overall to ostensibly the worst team in football and had them in the Super Bowl 22 months later right 

[BuffaloBillyG]

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, eball said:

…that perhaps Joe Burrow ain’t so “elite” and is more the product of a pretty fantastic set of weapons.  Flame away.

 

You're gonna get flamed because the narrative has always been Burrow is "elite" and people bought into it  And people will point to his amazing season at LSU. In which he had not only Chase, but Justin Jefferson to throw to. 

 

I've LONG said he's not elite. He does have some good traits. But take away Chase and or Higgins and he's not winning you games by himself. 

 

He's also the QB of a team that has often found themselves on the bad end of a game script. He pads his stats late in games far too often. Half the time just flinging balls in the direction of Chase who bails him out with amazing grabs.

 

Now saying all that, I do not say he is a bad QB or talentless. But people wanna stick him in the top 3 or top 5...and that's nonsense. I could maybe be talked into the 6-10 tier.

12 minutes ago, MPL said:

I once heard someone describe Joe Burrow as "fancy Kirk Cousins."  I'm still laughing about that. 

That's pretty funny. But it's also pretty accurate.

Edited 1 hour ago by BuffaloBillyG

[eball]

Just to be clear, I’m not by any means saying Burrow isn’t an above average QB. I’m simply suggesting he’s a significant step below the truly elite signal callers in the game today. He’s top 15 in the league for sure. 
 

[JGMcD2]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We all know Joe Burrow was drafted #1 overall to ostensibly the worst team in football and had them in the Super Bowl 22 months later right 

Burrow has won exactly one playoff game where the opponent scored over 20 points. If the Bills defense held teams to 20 PPG (it’s actually 18 in Burrow’s 7 playoff games) in the playoffs Josh would be 10-3. 

Edited 1 hour ago by JGMcD2

[FireChans]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

Burrow has won exactly one playoff game where the opponent scored over 20 points. If the Bills defense held teams to 20 PPG (it’s actually 18 in Burrow’s 7 playoff games) in the playoffs Josh would be 13-3. 

Sounds like Josh has a really crappy defense in the postseason. Not sure how that makes Joe Burrow crappy.

[SoCal Deek]

16 minutes ago, MPL said:

I once heard someone describe Joe Burrow as "fancy Kirk Cousins."  I'm still laughing about that. 

So you’re saying Kirk Cousins isn’t fancy? Shame. 😉

[Mikie2times]

[Maine-iac]

 Honestly part of Burrows availability problem is probably due to the fact that they throw it so much.  The guy takes 40 or 50 sacks a year and that's nowhere near how many times he gets hit.  Maybe if they could run the ball and control the line of scrimmage Burrow would be around when they need him to throw to those high dollar WR's.

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sounds like Josh has a really crappy defense in the postseason. Not sure how that makes Joe Burrow crappy.

Did I say Burrow was crappy?

 

Do I think the 10-7 Bengals Super Bowl run was completely on the shoulders of a QB who threw 5 touchdowns to two picks in four games? Probably not. 

[Captain Hindsight]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We all know Joe Burrow was drafted #1 overall to ostensibly the worst team in football and had them in the Super Bowl 22 months later right 

Sure, and now the Bengals are going to miss the playoffs for the third straight year

11 minutes ago, eball said:

Just to be clear, I’m not by any means saying Burrow isn’t an above average QB. I’m simply suggesting he’s a significant step below the truly elite signal callers in the game today. He’s top 15 in the league for sure. 
 

Burrow is very good. He is elite passer and arm talent, he is also (not necessarily through his play) a big reason why the Bengals are going to miss the playoffs again this year

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Did I say Burrow was crappy?

 

Do I think the 10-7 Bengals Super Bowl run was completely on the shoulders of a QB who threw 5 touchdowns to two picks in four games? Probably not. 

He’s hardly the first excellent QB to owe some credit to good defensive performances in the playoffs.

 

There was a guy in NE who is the GOAT who famously had some great playoff defenses. 

[JGMcD2]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He’s hardly the first excellent QB to owe some credit to good defensive performances in the playoffs.

 

There was a guy in NE who is the GOAT who famously had some great playoff defenses. 

I mean, if you’d like to compare Tom Brady to Joe Burrow in order to make your point, that’s fine. 
 

How do you think Tom would have done with Chase and Higgins?

[Maine-iac]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I mean, if you’d like to compare Tom Brady to Joe Burrow in order to make your point, that’s fine. 
 

How do you think Tom would have done with Chase and Higgins?

He probably would have put up record numbers and then get beat by Spags in the playoffs ........

[BearNorth]

18 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

 Honestly part of Burrows availability problem is probably due to the fact that they throw it so much.  The guy takes 40 or 50 sacks a year and that's nowhere near how many times he gets hit.  

witness the Chiefs on Sunday, Paddy got sacked 3x, but got hit 15 more times - 50% hit rate on 37 passing snaps.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

50 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I'm not buying all of that.  If that was the case Jake Browning would have moved the offense but he was completely ineffective.  I think Flacco's accuracy and ball placement is really high level and gives those guys a chance to make plays.  Joe obviously has the experience to understand what defenses are trying to do and disguise.  So the combo of Flacco and those elite receivers is better than what anyone could have imagined.  He wasn't this effective on the Browns obviously.

Browning was pretty good two years ago…definitely was terrible this year though for sure lol