Bills Don't have Receiver Problem, they have a perception problem-- Jim Kubiak BN

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, Psautcsk said:

If the Chiefs stop the run or we are behind by multiple scores, then what? Punt, punt, punt...

What makes you think I suggested that?  There's reading something and having a different opinion and then there's responses like this that clearly show you either never understood the point or you just want to be snarky. 
I'll make this as clear as possible.
 

You will need a reliable passing game if the running game isn't working. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Goin Breakdown

[BuffaloBillyG]

48 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

They have 2 playoff appearances in the last decade and no championships. You want to swap with them?

2 playoff appearances with 1 AFC Championship= 50% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 AFC Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the playoffs is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 

[CEN-CAL17]

Is it that the Bills can run the ball? Sure. Yes they can. But James Cook is a big reason why. He’s a stud! 
 

My question is…. Why is he not incorporated in the passing game more???? I.e like Bijan Robinson? Zero targets vs Carolina.

 

Get him the ball! Or at least make the defense cover the entire field and worry about him in the passing game too

[Casey D]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

2 playoff appearances with 1 AFC Championship= 50% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 AFC Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the playoffs is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 

Is it better to strike out most of the time and hit an occasional HR(triple actually) or always put the ball in play.  Ask the jays and the dodgers right now.

[KOKBILLS]

2 hours ago, Casey D said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/article_efc2cd6d-144e-48fd-91c2-2e1997a5017e.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

 

Really interesting take.  He points out that the Bills have developed a much greater capacity to run the ball, which takes pressure off Allen.  Bills need to stick to formula to pound the football and not turn it over.  

 

On Allen and the receivers, several interesting points.  He points out that Allen's completion percentage is up from 2024 from 63.5% to 68%, and YPG up from 219 to 222. Biggest difference is he is taking more sacks and committing more turnovers.  As to receivers, defenses are playing soft man-to man coverage and giving receivers large cushions that no receiver can just blow by and go deep, but there is lots of underneath stuff there. He points to a third-and -1 where Allen throws to Coleman immediately for a first down as defender is over 5 yards off the Line giving Coleman big cushion.

 

He also points out Allen's footwork and accuracy sucked in the first half, and Trubisky is looking like a more competent backup.

 

Prognosis is that Bills/Allen still not playing great but certainly can if they stick to formula. Allen just needs to play a bit smarter, but the game against Carolina in second half was a good step forward from previous weeks.

 

Behind BN paywall.  

 

 

 

I agree about the 2nd half Carolina thing...

When the play calling is on-point, even if it is just a short passing game, this offense cannot be stopped because the running game is just too consistent... But it take precision, no mistakes, no penalties... 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Casey D said:

Is it better to strike out most of the time and hit an occasional HR(triple actually) or always put the ball in play.  Ask the jays and the dodgers right now.

Apples and oranges. 

 

If we are talking baseball, many guys have had long and lucrative careers hitting an occasional HR and striking out a lot. Ask Steve "Bye-Bye" Balboni. 

 

If we are talking football, the occasional missed playoffs help teams aquire higher rates players through the draft. Ask Jamar Chase. 

 

Is it better to make the playoffs  10 years in a row and get bounced or miss the playoffs 8 out of 10 years, but win a Super Bowl the two years you do go? Ask Marvin Lewis and the NY Giants.

Edited 2 hours ago by BuffaloBillyG

[Psautcsk]

16 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

What makes you think I suggested that?  There's reading something and having a different opinion and then there's responses like this that clearly show you either never understood the point or you just want to be snarky. 
I'll make this as clear as possible.
 

You will need a reliable passing game if the running game isn't working. 

If the running game isn't working then you need a reliable passing game. What happens if there is not a reliable passing game? I get your point and I totally agree with it.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

There's definitely a WR problem,  but I agree that Allen has been way underperforming.  I don't care what the statistics say this year over last year.  He's sucked.  And the Oline had a bad game pass blocking vs Atlanta.  So in that game, Josh was bad, the Oline was bad and the WRs were bad/injured.

It's one thing to say Allen is "under performing" and another to say he's"sucked".  To say Allen has sucked this season is to admit that you don't watch any other NFL games because if you did you would have a better understanding of what "sucks" really looks like.

 

 

[DapperCam]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

2 playoff appearances with 1 AFC Championship= 50% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 AFC Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the playoffs is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 

The Bengals winning that game had a lot to do with Patrick Mahomes forgetting how to play football during halftime. He never had a chokejob like that vs us, and a lot of it was unforced. There is some luck involved.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If people are expecting a fast receiver to have  a dramatic change is wishful thinking.  If they trade for a guy he will play 40% of snaps.   Scheme and Josh adjusting to what defenses are doing are the things that will fix the passing game.  

I disagree. Cooper had an immediate positive impact on the Bills offense.  The threat of now being able to do something in the passing game well that you could not do before will provide a big impact.

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

3 minutes ago, Psautcsk said:

If the running game isn't working then you need a reliable passing game. What happens if there is not a reliable passing game? I get your point and I totally agree with it.

Unfortunately you'd most likely lose. Sorry for snapping back. That's my bad. My hope is for them to find their grove before the running attack is figured out or knock on wood, injuries happen. There's a lot of talk about Josh not being right. Idk maybe right?  If so he's got to be accountable for his part in the issues with the passing game. Whats your thoughts?  Go Bills!

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

100%

Josh has never been a great deep ball thrower. Even many of his big downfield completions have resulted in players having to slow down, reposition, jump for the ball. It's not like watching prime Brady/Rodgers where he hits his man in stride on a Go and he runs the rest of the way in for a TD. On intermediate routes and in the redzone he's deadly, but the whole time people have been clamoring for a "deep threat", I've been wondering what exactly they're expecting us to do with them.

I think many of us are talking in parallel because we're using different definitions of "deep ball".  I agree that Allen is not elite in throws over 40 yards which I define as a deep ball. But in the intermediate zone of 15 - 30 yard throws Allen is elite and these are the Allen throws that give defensive coordinators nightmares.  And IMO it's pretty obvious that our current crop of WR's are the worst since Allen's rookie year on catching these kinds of throws.

 

 

[JazzyNBlue]

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So yeah keep feeding Cook. But we've seen a bunch of drives this year where that 1st down run only gets 1 yard and converting suddenly feels impossible. I remember when 3rd and 15 felt like easy money with Josh Allen. Now you have Joe Brady in this week's presser saying out loud that they need to stay out of 3rd and 7s because it's too big a hole to dig out of. With Allen's arm that's embarrassing. There's no reason our offense should have such a tiny margin for error. The historically mistake free offense we ran last year was never going to be sustainable

This is completely true. This statement is where McDermott and Brady’s mind set is. Wonder why Josh is not looking like himself. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

And how successful would you say that formula has been for Cincy and Dallas? Who was the most important player for the Philly offense last year?

The answer isn't going to the extreme in either direction.  I like that we can run the ball.  But the current WR group is so bad that it actually reduces the positive impact of the Bills improved running game.  People have mentioned the Eagles but they can make defenses pay a big price with throws to Brown off play action when they key to much on Barcley.  We need to be able to do the same.  I saw a glimmer of this with Palmer against the Falcons but then he got hurt.

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

53 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I think you just missed my edit. I don't care about hitting 40-50 yard passes all game. If they hit even 1 or 2 per game that would be fine. Primarily though, the problem is in the intermediate area. 15-20 yards. They need to do way better in that area of the field. Throwing to Shakir behind the los 5 times a game isn't going to cut it. Josh is currently 20th in intended air yards.

Why are you throwing 15-20 yards down the field?

If you're rushing for 5+ yards a carry, there's absolutely no reason to take high risk plays mailing the ball down the field. Tom Brady won a lot of Super Bowls using guys like Julian Edelman the way the Bills use Shakir.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

Absolutely. When your offense is getting stopped there is more pressure on your defense irregardless of your offensive philosophy. The issue in the 90s was supposedly that the defense didn’t have time to rest if the offense went three and out, or similar, while running hurry up. However, if those defenses got off the field more consistently on third downs then they wouldn’t be so tired.

My debate is simple, if your offense isn't scoring points or turning the ball over more than the opposition than simply put your putting more pressure on your defense. By contrast if your defense can do that to the opposing team than your offense can be less that great and in my opinion, and throughout most history, easier for your team win, aka defenses win championships by either winning turnover battles or stopping your opponent more than they stopped you etc. Everyone talks about that we haven't outscored KC to win these games maybe the issue like many here feel, and I do too, that our defense hasn't stopped KC enough for us to win moreso in playoffs as seems that's when our team has had less than a full roster of healthy defenders.   Yet my feeling for this year because of how the AFC West is more competitive it be in our best interest to beat KC on Sunday because it will severely dampen their chances of getting in the playoff this season and of course increase our chances to make it and host a playoff game or two.

[BullBuchanan]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

2 playoff appearances with 1 AFC Championship= 50% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 AFC Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the playoffs is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 

2 playoff appearances with 0 Super Bowl Championships= 0% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 Super Bowl Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the Super Bowl is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 


--------------------

Personally, I'll take the 5 straight division championships and 2 AFC championship appearances and the confidence we'll be at least this good another 5 years over what the Bengals have done and will do.

You're praising a team that very well may be firing their head coach.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Crazier concept, Shanny offense with Purdy like QBs have gotten to more Super Bowls than we have.  So as great a player Josh is maybe he part of the problem we've had getting there especially if not playing within the system we've created. Granted we just scored 40 points with that system so it does have some good points despite JA17 less than stellar stats this past week. 

 

 

I'd love to see Allen in a Shanahan offense but Allen doesn't like playing under center and the traditional play action game.

 

I presumed when he came into the league that would be his path to success.   

 

If you can execute without having your eyes on the defense the entire time like Tom Brady or Brock Purdy you get the spoils of facing a consistently more vulnerable defense.

 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The answer isn't going to the extreme in either direction.  I like that we can run the ball.  But the current WR group is so bad that it actually reduces the positive impact of the Bills improved running game.  People have mentioned the Eagles but they can make defenses pay a big price with throws to Brown off play action when they key to much on Barcley.  We need to be able to do the same.  I saw a glimmer of this with Palmer against the Falcons but then he got hurt.

 

 

It's such a gross exaggeration, bordering on making your whole statement false. We have plenty of talent in our WR room. It's not a league leading group by any means, but the harder you guys dig your heels in making it sound like we have David Nelson and Donald Jones back there the more ridiculous the whole argument gets.

You mention AJ Brown - have you watched him this year?

Do me a favor, go look at his stats for this year and then when you're done go look at Skakir's stats. Let me know what you find.

Edited 2 hours ago by BullBuchanan

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Were you around for the 90s teams? As anyone who was should recognize that high flying offenses can be stopped and when they do your defense has to be even better to allow you to win. Give me a strong opposition that can stop the opposition every time over the latter. 

and KC has been able to stop us on our last drive the last two times we've been eliminated from the playoffs. Yes, Josh played great in those games but he still wasn't good enough. and no I'm not giving the defense a pass but hey if your defense not playing it's best than the offense has to play even better to win. 

Yes, the Bills could use a receiver who can go deep. But those who want them to switch to a heavy pass plan are living a fantasy. If the Bills come out in 5-wide and try to sling the ball all over the field, the Chiefs will run them out of the stadium.

 

The Chiefs defense is weakest against runs between the tackles and against play action. The Bills need to put Josh under center and run the ball—not exclusively, but primarily—and let the pass game work off of that.