Would you want to see Josh play hardball with the organization?

[TwistofFate]

If Allen left this organization, I wouldn't even be mad. I wouldn't blame him at all. In fact I'd be happy for him if he went somewhere else and won a Super Bowl cuz it's never happening here under this regime.

[uticaclub]

52 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

The only way Josh plays "hardball" with this group is: "TRADE ME right frickin now"!

and from what I hear... he's ready.

He just re-signed this offseason.

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, CirclnWagons said:

The question is, will they get him and the defense some kind of help prior to the deadline or are they content just sending him out every Sunday with his Superman cape and telling him to handle it and trusting him to score enough points to bail out the D. The cap situation makes things hard to do too much but teams have gotten far more creative with far less if they legit believe they’re in a Super Bowl window. What takes place between now and the end of the trade deadline will say a lot about how committed they are to winning this year. 

But what do you do when he’s having an off game which includes missing open receivers? I get that if it was DK Metcalf he was throwing those 50/50 balls to and not Keon Coleman, the result might be different, but if he’s not reading the defense well and having a generally off night, there’s not much you can do with that (besides run the ball even more). He’s not being asked to be Superman, just run the offense. Hit the open guy when he’s open.

 

I mentioned that Joe Marino said he has the tape to prove players are open and now I’m seeing stills circulating on social media showing the same. Stills don’t tell the whole story, I get that, but there’s one in particular where no one’s 8 yards within Shakir and Josh is seemingly looking his direction but doesn’t throw the ball. According to that poster the play ended in a sack. All of this is to say - everyone needs to play better, including Josh Allen. 

[SectionC3]

41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s the question. I hate the idea of a lot of these retreads in that the game seems to be changing all of the time. Sean Payton was the guy I wanted a few years ago. He would check that box. Mike McCarthy? Feels gross. There doesn’t feel like there are any viable candidates with a championship pedigree at the NFL level (maybe some coordinators).

 

You probably have to look to college if you want someone that’s won titles. Day’s name pops up a lot but as an Ohio State fan, I don’t think he’s the guy. Kirby Smart? He’s not yet 50, won a few titles, sustained excellence and is a Saban disciple. 

Yeah I’m with you on the first paragraph.   I wouldn’t roll with a college guy. I want NFL and pedigree.  Or someone who is familiar and trusted.  Specifically, Davis Webb. 

[Sweats]

I don't know, man..........somethings definitely "off" with JA this year.

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, Brand J said:

But what do you do when he’s having an off game which includes missing open receivers? I get that if it was DK Metcalf he was throwing those 50/50 balls to and not Keon Coleman, the result might be different, but if he’s not reading the defense well and having a generally off night, there’s not much you can do with that (besides run the ball even more). He’s not being asked to be Superman, just run the offense. Hit the open guy when he’s open.

 

I mentioned that Joe Marino said he has the tape to prove players are open and now I’m seeing stills circulating on social media showing the same. Stills don’t tell the whole story, I get that, but there’s one in particular where no one’s 8 yards within Shakir and Josh is seemingly looking his direction but doesn’t throw the ball. According to that poster the play ended in a sack. All of this is to say - everyone needs to play better, including Josh Allen. 

My theory, totally unfounded, is that Josh was concussed against NE.  He seemed revert to old form after getting knocked around.  Last week I think was a combination of a lot of bad factors,  including a team coming off a bye with something to prove in a national game.  Kind of like the buzz saw we hit against the ravens last year.  What hurts isn’t so much the loss but the litany of stupid penalties and stupid play calling and the disheartening ability to stop the run or get off the field on third down.  Again and again and again. 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t believe that they can. I think that you could take any competent coach in college or the NFL and be 4-2 right now. I believe that they have played about as poorly as this group can possibly play with the exception of the 1st half against the Jets and the last 4 minutes vs. Baltimore. 

Can you take any GM and have the 8 year run the Bills have had?  The overwhelming issue right now is talent and injuries, not coaching.

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

My theory, totally unfounded, is that Josh was concussed against NE.  He seemed revert to old form after getting knocked around.  Last week I think was a combination of a lot of bad factors,  including a team coming off a bye with something to prove in a national game.  Kind of like the buzz saw we hit against the ravens last year.  What hurts isn’t so much the loss but the litany of stupid penalties and stupid play calling and the disheartening ability to stop the run or get off the field on third down.  Again and again and again. 

There was definitely a play where his head slammed on the turf. I remember against Green Bay a few years ago something similar happened and he went on to have a terrible stretch of games. May be true. 

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

There was definitely a play where his head slammed on the turf. I remember against Green Bay a few years ago something similar happened and he went on to have a terrible stretch of games. May be true. 

Yup.  This is where I’m at.  Something happened against NE. 

[Pecker]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Could they? That’s where we disagree. I think that the floor, with Josh as QB is probably 10-7 with a playoff spot. Pretty much any competent NFL or college coach could do that. The roster, outside of Josh, is one of the worst in football IMO. With average QB play (think Tua) they are about a 4 win team. Regardless of how much influence he has had, he didn’t ultimately decide on any draft picks or FA signings. His input might have been wrong but the people calling the shots made bad decisions with and without his input.
 

If he wants change, what is the risk in terms of the floor? If they, HYPOTHETICALLY (I’m not advocating for this), replaced this group with the group that the Browns currently have, are they even worse?  Forget about “it’s too risky to try.” The Bills have won the division and a playoff game or 2 every year. Great. They should. They have Josh Allen. I don’t attribute much of that to the coaches or GM. Outside of picking Josh, lots and lots of people could have accomplished what they have or more. 

This is very well said.  I hope everyone reads this again. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

I would rather see Terry play hardball with Beane and McDermott. Then we will see real change.

Terry pegula? The guy who still employs Kevin adams?  He’s going to play hardball? 😂😂😂😂

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

The only way Josh plays "hardball" with this group is: "TRADE ME right frickin now"!

and from what I hear... he's ready.

A new coach essentially means a dead season. I don't care who is on that list - this D is not winning anything.

Hardball means they both go.

 

Add one quality receiver and a coach who can use who we have and scheme them open and our O is plenty good enough with a competent D.

 

D roster on the other hand, we need:

CB

2 Safeties

2 LBs 

and that is at minimum 

 

There clearly needs to be a “ rebuilding “ year which is why it should have been at the beginning of last season before we let Beane shackle the team with some of these contracts. 

 

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

You are comparing apples to oranges. Our players today are nowhere near what we had with Whaley.

We need LB's.

We need CB's x 2.

We need Safety.

we need youth and speed on D.

Just read this after basically writing this😁

[T.E.]

25 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I don't know, man..........somethings definitely "off" with JA this year.

Just throwing this out there...if I knew that I wanted to retire early because I wasn't completely enamored of football, I would approach secondary income like endorsement deals with the exact same intensity that he has the past 12-18 months.

[Jauronimo]

I think "any decent coach" can have one or maybe two 12 win seasons with Allen and the rosters that we have had.  I do not think too many coach GM combos can sustain the level of excellence we have seen for 7 years.  Look at Philadelphia.  Super Bowl caliber roster that is on the verge of falling apart multiple times under Sirianni.  

 

I'd trade 4 more years of 12 win seasons for one Lombardi and 3 years of underperformance but the Lombardi is hardly guaranteed just by changing the staff.  Any new staff will want to bring in a new system and turn over the roster.  In the modern NFL that can take as little as one offseason or it can be 2 to 3 years.  If there ever was a time to totally overhaul the roster, it is this offseason.  

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m a yes. That probably has to be an off-season thing though depending on how major the changes are. I’d like to see him start pushing for a WR now and end this everybody eats nonsense. In the offseason, if the year ends like every other, he can push further. There is no benefit to status quo. Josh is the only person in the organization with the leverage and power to make change (besides Terry). 

 

if he wants to finds a receiver, he'll have to get rid of the GM as well...

[muppy]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

If Allen left this organization, I wouldn't even be mad. I wouldn't blame him at all. In fact I'd be happy for him if he went somewhere else and won a Super Bowl cuz it's never happening here under this regime.

come on now this is a red hot take. He's not leaving Buffalo. He just resigned a long term deal.  He is one of us. 

Edited 6 hours ago by muppy

[GroteStreet]

35 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Can you take any GM and have the 8 year run the Bills have had?  The overwhelming issue right now is talent and injuries, not coaching.

This run to two afc championship losses has not been that impressive, when you consider the competition in the afc east and the qb we have.

[JP51]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

How much truth is there to Josh hand picking Keon in the draft?  

I dont know... but I do not want him to start making personel and coaching decisions... 

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, GroteStreet said:

This run to two afc championship losses has not been that impressive, when you consider the competition in the afc east and the qb we have.

You play the teams on your schedule.  There are no asterisks next to the Pats and Colts achievements for playing in weak divisions.

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

As @Kirby Jackson already mentioned, he just has to have a 1:1 chat with Pegula and, as Terry's highest paid, most important employee, let him know he doesnt have confidence in the current regime and feels they are wasting his career. That's it really. That should be enough to get the wheels in motion.

 

Depending on what happens from there will determine the next steps. But for the most part, it's just conversations with the owner. Shouldnt be any hold outs or hold ins or anything public at all.

 

At worst, he let's Terry know if things dont change then he's unlikely to re-sign, or will start pushing for a trade. But that would likely be the most extreme extent.

 

And what would be the result of that conversation?  I know we'd all like for it to mean the owner telling the HC and GM their methods are inadequate, but I'm not even sure of that considering TPegs' history forcing out via management players who "rebelled" with his other team.  Then again, the NHL team isn't moving into a new stadium nor receives $430M in revenue sharing each year.  So who knows what TPegs would do.  

 

At the same time, McD was pretty clear from Day 1 that he was the one voice for the Buffalo Bills.  As in, he's running the football side which later included this GM.  I'm not optimistic that having even a player like the reigning NFL MVP interfere with that would be welcomed by a personality like McD.  

 

It's shaping up (if it hasn't already) to be a show-down between Josh and the HC/GM who are an anchor on this franchise.  Still not optimistic this owner knows who to handle that situation.  

Edited 6 hours ago by BillsVet