Why the Pats stopped the Bills' offense - Allen got antsy and undisciplined (The Athletic)

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Josh played great. 70%+ completion, 300+ yards, 2 TD’s.

 

He had the one bad INT and that’s about it.

 

Those complaining about his play have an extra chromosome.

it looks even better on all22 tbh

 

currently rewatching as we speak

[Mark Vader]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Athletic didn't really say that. It said that even his bad games are good games (and the stats bear that out for the Pats game - he was in fact reasonably good but not great). In any event, scoring only 20 at home is not going to win you a ton of games. The pick in the red zone was, however, pretty egregious. As soon as he threw it, visions of Devin McCourty from a couple years back leapt into my head. It was a terrible decision and looked like a pick the moment it left his hand. He hadn't thrown a terrible pick like that in a long time.

Yes, that was a bad throw, and worse it killed a good scoring drive. It happens. Not everything goes your way.

 

I think we all believe that Josh Allen will bounce back from it.

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

@thenorthremembers

i am watching the second half rn

 

it's either short completions or nobody open downfield

 

the bad ball to Shakir for INT and the miscommunication backshoulder throw to Shavers are the only things I can think of

 

I dont disagree with you for a second about nothing being open down field.  But there are instances where he could have taken short or underneath routes to setup 2nd or 3rd and manageable.   Their second to last offensive play he had options.   I am not saying he was awful, I am just saying in multiple instances he came off of open routes to try and force longer throws. 

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Josh played great. 70%+ completion, 300+ yards, 2 TD’s.

 

He had the one bad INT and that’s about it.

 

Those complaining about his play have an extra chromosome.

 

Yes because stats always tell a complete and accurate story of sports.   The irony of you making an inference about someone's mental acuity without understanding what really happened during the game should not be lost on anyone.  I dont think anyone is saying Josh was horrible, but he was not as good as the stats show.  

Edited 4 hours ago by thenorthremembers

[zow2]

My opinion may not be popular but I don't think Josh is at his best when he's planted in the pocket scanning the field for options 2 & 3.   That's a Joe Burrow thing, or even Mahomes, Goff, etc.   I think Josh is at his best when he's moving around, rolling out, running for 7 yards and getting out of bounds, etc...  He's definitely gotten better at standing in the pocket and throwing some accurate passes.  Sometimes the WR's are working in unison with Josh as he's scrambling around trying to make a play and they get more open... thats when the special happens.  I also feel like he takes some shots from defenders while hanging in the pocket, they love to whip Allen to the ground when they get ahold of him.  They enjoy roughing him up.

[TNBills]

Personally I feel that the offensive playcalling was the main issue. Refusing to attack the middle of the field with our 3 TE's consistently, and instead attacking their strength (CB) with our weakest unit. To line up in Jumbo and only pass twice is criminal against their linebackers in coverage.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

 

I dont disagree with you for a second about nothing being open down field.  But there are instances where he could have taken short or underneath routes to setup 2nd or 3rd and manageable.   Their second to last offensive play he had options.   I am not saying he was awful, I am just saying in multiple instances he came off of open routes to try and force longer throws. 

here

this is the play you're talking about from the top of his drop before he decides not to throw Cook into an oven and tucks it

 

please tell me what the options are here

 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Their second to last offensive play he had options.   

 

Finally you give us an example of your claim. Let’s discuss the singular play you mention.

 

On this play, Allen had ONE underneath option. It was James Cook, for a 3 yard pass. And Cook would have been cracked by two incoming LB’s.

 

Thats what you are criticizing Allen over? Not throwing a 3 yard pass to Cook?

 

 

[shane nelson]

2 Points

• Going back to his days in Tennessee, Mike Vrabe, has always been able to handcuff Josh
• We need to stretch the field, all season there has been to many designed underneath plays, especially the wide receiver screen 

[PatsFanNH]

13 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Yes, that was a bad throw, and worse it killed a good scoring drive. It happens. Not everything goes your way.

 

I think we all believe that Josh Allen will bounce back from it.

I watched a show up here and they said the Pats showed cover 2 and changed it at the last minute and Allen threw the ball where the opening would be in a cover 2 D. 

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Finally you give us an example of your claim. Let’s discuss the singular play you mention.

 

On this play, Allen had ONE underneath option. It was James Cook, for a 3 yard pass. And Cook would have been cracked by two incoming LB’s.

 

Thats what you are criticizing Allen over? Not throwing a 3 yard pass to Cook?

 

 

 

Now go to the SECOND to last play they had on offense during the game.  Because the last play they had on offense was with eight seconds left in the game.   I didnt say second to last play of offense during the field goal drive.  I agree he shouldnt have gone to Cook on the play I was referencing because Cook wasnt even on the field.  As for not giving examples I guess the entire thread I posted with specific examples from the All 22 wasnt enough. 

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

here

this is the play you're talking about from the top of his drop before he decides not to throw Cook into an oven and tucks it

 

please tell me what the options are here

 

 

   The play I am talking about is at 2:31 left in the 4th quarter.   Every option he has probably comes with some issues, but there are options.  Two underneath routes short of the sticks.  Johnson with single coverage on a wheel route and Samuel in the front left side of the endzone.  The Samuel being open part has been posted all over the internet this week.  

Edited 4 hours ago by thenorthremembers

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Now go to the SECOND to last play they had on offense during the game.  Because the last play they had on offense was with eight seconds left in the game.   I didnt say second to last play of offense during the field goal drive.  I agree he shouldnt have gone to Cook on the play I was referencing because Cook was even on the field.  As for not giving examples I guess the entire thread I posted with specific examples from the All 22 wasnt enough. 

 

Ahh, you’re talking about this play. Let me guess, you wanted Josh to throw a 3 yard pass to the crossers and make it 4th and 7? 

 

Hmm. Three yard shorter field goal. Totally see the wisdom!

 

[GoBills808]

29 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Now go to the SECOND to last play they had on offense during the game.  Because the last play they had on offense was with eight seconds left in the game.   I didnt say second to last play of offense during the field goal drive.  I agree he shouldnt have gone to Cook on the play I was referencing because Cook wasnt even on the field.  As for not giving examples I guess the entire thread I posted with specific examples from the All 22 wasnt enough. 

 

   The play I am talking about is at 2:31 left in the 4th quarter.   Every option he has probably comes with some issues, but there are options.  Two underneath routes short of the sticks.  Johnson with single coverage on a wheel route and Samuel in the front left side of the endzone.  The Samuel being open part has been posted all over the internet this week.  

It's third and 10 

[thenorthremembers]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Ahh, you’re talking about this play. Let me guess, you wanted Josh to throw a 3 yard pass to the crossers and make it 4th and 7? 

 

Hmm. Three yard shorter field goal. Totally see the wisdom!

 

 

No.  Ideally he would have shown more patience in the pocket and hit the corner to Samuel.   Because he decided to bail out right and make that throw infinitely harder, I would have also been ok with him trying for the wheel route to Johnson.    Before he trapped himself against the sideline I would have also been ok with him hitting Shakir when he had nothing but green around him, even at one pointing waving his hand in the air.    If I knew he was going to bail out I guess I would have been fine with him hitting those underneath routes when his receivers were still running to see if they could make a play up the field.   All of that, every single part of it, would have been better than ditching the pocket, running to the sideline, and making the final throw as hard as possible of both him and the guy who has to catch it.  But thats just me. 

 

Kudos to you though.  Rather than having a civil discussion about the play.  You responded to my post referencing the wrong play because you dont know what second to last means.   When you realized you didnt know, you deleted your response.   Came back with no humility posted a picture explicitly not showing Samuel and still were sarcastic.   All this after inferring that anyone who has the gull to merely mention that Josh may have missed some throws/reads has down syndrome.   Grow up. 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's third and 10 

 

I understand the situation.   Its not a great play call, but if he isnt going to take the corner route I'd rather give his receivers a chance to make a play than to bail out and run to the sideline.  Thats all I am saying. 

Edited 3 hours ago by thenorthremembers

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

No.  Ideally he would have shown more patience in the pocket and hit the corner to Samuel.   

 

Oh, so when you said Josh wasn’t taking the “short or underneath routes” all game, what you really meant was:

 

“Josh didn’t throw one specific LONG and risky pass (that wasn’t short or underneath), and might have been intercepted because the safety was watching it the entire way and was just waiting and baiting and hoping Josh would throw it, and oh yeah, it was the last read in Josh’s progression and Josh ended up throwing it to an open receiver only 13 yards from the line of scrimmage, but the receiver was interfered with.”

 

Now I get - just don’t believe what you write in black and white.

 

😂

Edited 3 hours ago by Einstein

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

My opinion may not be popular but I don't think Josh is at his best when he's planted in the pocket scanning the field for options 2 & 3.   That's a Joe Burrow thing, or even Mahomes, Goff, etc.   I think Josh is at his best when he's moving around, rolling out, running for 7 yards and getting out of bounds, etc...  He's definitely gotten better at standing in the pocket and throwing some accurate passes.  Sometimes the WR's are working in unison with Josh as he's scrambling around trying to make a play and they get more open... thats when the special happens.  I also feel like he takes some shots from defenders while hanging in the pocket, they love to whip Allen to the ground when they get ahold of him.  They enjoy roughing him up.

Feels like teams know that and try to bait him into stepping into delayed pressure tbh. Still think we shoulda won that game pretty easily regardless if we clean up the slop a bit but the pats did a lot of things really well defensively without even having to get into the wr matchups thing

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[DapperCam]

58 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Now go to the SECOND to last play they had on offense during the game.  Because the last play they had on offense was with eight seconds left in the game.   I didnt say second to last play of offense during the field goal drive.  I agree he shouldnt have gone to Cook on the play I was referencing because Cook wasnt even on the field.  As for not giving examples I guess the entire thread I posted with specific examples from the All 22 wasnt enough. 

 

   The play I am talking about is at 2:31 left in the 4th quarter.   Every option he has probably comes with some issues, but there are options.  Two underneath routes short of the sticks.  Johnson with single coverage on a wheel route and Samuel in the front left side of the endzone.  The Samuel being open part has been posted all over the internet this week.  

Why do you want Allen dumping off a covered check down on 3rd and 10? I would rather he take off and try to get it with his legs than do that.

 

What he ended up doing was buying like 8 seconds of time and throwing an accurate pass to a WR past the sticks (who was interfered with, not much you can do there).

 

Part of the problem with these close games we lose (because we only lose close games pretty much) is nitpicking one or two plays at the end of the game. There was an entire game of snaps played, and Allen made a good decision on like 95% of them and only really made a bad decision on one.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Why do you want Allen dumping off a covered check down on 3rd and 10? I would rather he take off and try to get it with his legs than do that.

 

What he ended up doing was buying like 8 seconds of time and throwing an accurate pass to a WR past the sticks (who was interfered with, not much you can do there).

 

Part of the problem with these close games we lose (because we only lose close games pretty much) is nitpicking one or two plays at the end of the game. There was an entire game of snaps played, and Allen made a good decision on like 95% of them and only really made a bad decision on one.

The int was the correct decision imo it was just a bad throw

[Dick_Cheney]

Because he gets to a point where he feels he has to do it all himself, which is predominantly accurate, considering the lack of skill on offense. 

 

Expect to see more of this unless something drastic changes. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

The play I am talking about is at 2:31 left in the 4th quarter.   Every option he has probably comes with some issues, but there are options.  Two underneath routes short of the sticks.  Johnson with single coverage on a wheel route and Samuel in the front left side of the endzone.  The Samuel being open part has been posted all over the internet this week. 

 

That play was discussed at length in this thread:

 

 

A couple posts to give you the alternative view to what you're saying:

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of this concept on 3rd and 10. As I said in my post in that thread Brady needed to have the play design force Gonzalez to commit high or low. Shakir's mesh route doesn't get to his side until several seconds into the play so he's able to play the high and the low route simultaneously. Allen quickly moves on once he recognize's Gonzalez's leverage with the safety also sitting on it over the top.

 

Sure Allen's best option with hindsight was to pick up the 4-5 yards and get to 4th down. Without hindsight though I always want Allen to try and create in those moments because we know he can.

 

The two biggest failures on this play were Brady for the play design and the officials for failing to call an obvious DPI. Gonzalez full out slams into Shakir's back before the ball arrives. Crazy moment to keep the flags tucked away after all the other ticky tack penalties they were calling.

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Oh, so when you said Josh wasn’t taking the “short or underneath routes” all game, what you really meant was:

 

“Josh didn’t throw one specific LONG and risky pass (that wasn’t short or underneath), and might have been intercepted because the safety was watching it the entire way and was just waiting and baiting and hoping Josh would throw it, and oh yeah, it was the last read in Josh’s progression and Josh ended up throwing it to an open receiver only 13 yards from the line of scrimmage, but the receiver was interfered with.”

 

Now I get - just don’t believe what you write in black and white.

 

😂

 

The problem with your response is I dont recall ever saying Josh didnt take short or underneath routes all game.  If I did thats on me.  If I didnt you're being purposely hyperbolic.    It wasnt an all game issue, but there were multiple instances in the second half where he didnt.    It's not just me and other posters saying it, multiple journalists are saying the same thing.   The Samuel point is likely moot because he was already outside of the pocket when Samuel makes his cut, and the situation doesnt call for him to be risky there.  That said, you focused on that one point instead of discussing the multiple other points I made to your response.    

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by thenorthremembers