For all you McDermott haters, who would you want?

[oldmanfan]

There were some questionable coaching decisions last night.  But players have to play.  Players have to quit doing dumb things like not lining up on the line of scrimmage.  Defensive players have to tackle and cover better.  Offensive players have to block better and WRs run better patterns and come back to the ball when they see the QB scrambling.  The QB has to not throw into the middle against double coverage.  And so on.

 

I texted my daughter during the game they were just playing dumb last night.  They won’t do that all year.

[Avisan]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

Rings change everything. Payton's offenses also were pretty legendary to the point other coaches asked him routinely including BB what he was doing so well scheme wise. McD has none of that and what is supposed to be his calling card with defense has now eroded to a point you have zero faith in it.

Ring, singular, competing in a conference without a dynasty, with prime Brees.  This is exactly my point, despite these advantages, the Saints just... weren't THAT good, consistently.  They were almost always good, but they had years they missed the playoffs and didn't really stand out from the other good NFC teams.  Meanwhile, the AFC has the Patriots to deal with.  The Brees/Payton teams had comparable success to the non-Pats AFC teams despite not having the Pats to deal with in-conference.  I see no reason to think he would have gotten better results than McDermott during the last 4 years.

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, Avisan said:

McDermott turned around a doormat, too.

 

Did Payton have a "crazy run" with Brees?  How are you measuring that?  He had the best QB in the NFC for basically the entirety of prime Brees.

 

The Bills likely would have been playing for a chip last year if the refs weren't screwing them on spots all night.

 

I think there are fair questions to be had regarding the McBeane regime, but the idea that Payton or Vrabel would waltz in and create a championship team with our roster is super questionable.

 

Payton is 9-9 in the playoffs. One of those losses was that Denver team last year that isn’t good. So he was 9-8 with Brees. That’s similar to McDermott. He has a Super Bowl title and was robbed of a 2nd appearance with the worst call in history. If they throw the flag on NRC, and the Saints go to a 2nd, he walks into the HOF. He’s a bad guy but the thought of people around here that McDermott > Payton is WILD to me. You need to win when it matters most. He’s done that. The Bills would 100% have a Super Bowl title (or a few) by now if it had been Sean Payton instead of Sean McDermott. 
 

I’m not here to dwell on Sean Payton though. That ship has sailed. The point is, lots of people could win 1-2 playoffs games a year with Josh Allen. That’s not good enough. That’s not the goal.

Edited 1 hour ago by Kirby Jackson

[corta765]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Payton is 9-9 in the playoffs. One of those losses was that Denver team last year that isn’t good. So he was 9-8 with Brees. That’s similar to McDermott. He has a Super Bowl title and was robbed of a 2nd appearance with the worst call in history. If they throw the flag on NRC, and the Saints go to a 2nd, he walks into the HOF. He’s a bad guy but the thought of people around here that McDermott > Payton is WILD to me. You need to win when it matters most. He’s done that. The Bills would 100% have a Super Bowl title (or a few) by now if it had been Sean Payton instead of Sean McDermott. 

 

Also in a much much larger level he and Brees both had to help rebuild a franchise/city that was literally destroyed by Katrina. This wasn't just a come in, draft well, and go type of thing. The entire operation itself had to be literally reset from the bottom up. That takes a special coach to be able to do that AND also have the success that followed.

[BillsVet]

42 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Coaches like McDermott build systems that are rock solid and win consistently in the regular season. But the defense is not very imaginative and just does what it does, which works well enough until it doesn't. 

 

McD and Beane going back a few seasons have become very conservative running it back in personnel, hiring assistants, and now schematically.  It's like a lot of companies...staying with what works is easiest because change means uncertainty.  The boldness to move up and draft Josh followed by the Diggs trade has been replaced with doubling down on DL, and thinking JAG WRs will work on a new team because Josh is the QB.  

 

And yeah, it's not about this loss.  Those are going to happen.  It's a leadership group which is trying to advance to the SB, but refuses to consider that their systems aren't functional when they need them most...even with Josh Allen at QB. 

[corta765]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

And yeah, it's not about this loss.  Those are going to happen.  It's a leadership group which is trying to advance to the SB, but refuses to consider that their systems aren't functional when they need them most...even with Josh Allen at QB. 

 

It was a systematic loss which highlights your greatest fears, worries, and issues that exist. It was a reminder again of the AFC title that if this offense is not 30+ a game which usually means Josh is also near his best then they cannot win.

[GerstAusGosheim]

Josh Allen is the MVP of the entire league and has been playing at that level for 4 years.

 

A better question might be: What does Sean bring to the table that would make you think any half-decent coach couldn’t do at least as well?

 

Is it his stellar D? Nope.

In-game decision making? Nope.

Commitment to getting a generational QB talent top weapons? Nope.

 

This fanbase needs to get over its Sean loyalty for ending the draught. That was 8 years ago.

 

 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

I have felt this way since the KC loss. What has changed? Defense still sucks despite very resource we have being pumped into it, the coach routinely gets out coached by anyone half decent, and if Josh is not playing at a high level or mistakes happen whether it be his or the teams they lose. Again were wasting the prime of the best QB we have had and our best chance to get a ring since the 90s. It is fascinating to me the amount of people that still defend McD when it has been nearly a decade of him as coach and his defense has only gotten worse despite having the luxury of an all world QB. Beane doesn't escape criticism either but you can't fire a GM mid season.

yeah, i think that is the concern... there are two factions... we are 4-1 stop complaining we will be fine... and I want to win it all and what I am seeing is more of the same we have seen the past several years... in fact the defense has likely regressed... how are you going to win it all like that... I get both sides... but I am more in your camp which is the... we needed badly to improve on the defensive side of the ball...we have not... we have elected to go WR by C+/B- committee and the cracks are starting to show... eliminate the down field threat and the short stuff is much harder... as is the running game...  we have a serviceable core.... but they do not strike fear into the hearts of anyone....  Tearing it down is not what I think we should do... (from a guy who was upset with Polian and waited 25 years to get a competent GM in here....) our best hope is that Beane finally recognizes his short comings and makes FO changes and the McD hires a strong and Competent Dco and lets them do their thing... just my opinion... 

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, JP51 said:

yeah, i think that is the concern... there are two factions... we are 4-1 stop complaining we will be fine... and I want to win it all and what I am seeing is more of the same we have seen the past several years... in fact the defense has likely regressed... how are you going to win it all like that... I get both sides... but I am more in your camp which is the... we needed badly to improve on the defensive side of the ball...we have not... we have elected to go WR by C+/B- committee and the cracks are starting to show... eliminate the down field threat and the short stuff is much harder... as is the running game...  we have a serviceable core.... but they do not strike fear into the hearts of anyone....  Tearing it down is not what I think we should do... (from a guy who was upset with Polian and waited 25 years to get a competent GM in here....) our best hope is that Beane finally recognizes his short comings and makes FO changes and the McD hires a strong and Competent Dco and lets them do their thing... just my opinion... 

 

Exactly. The amount of resources devoted to the D to help Josh and then see this as the same issue if not worse as apparently they cannot tackle anymore when the head coach himself is a defensive guy is so frustrating. The Bills points allowed in playoff losses is an average of 30.8 since 2019.  Chiefs are 25.5 and Ravens are 20.6 since 2019. At some point is the guy who we keep dumping everything into his side of the ball actually going to have them show up and for real? It feels like that meme that says it didn't work before but maybe this time is different. I just don't think it is different anymore this is what you get and yea maybe Josh pulls an Aaron Rodgers 2010 run to get the ring, but he otherwise is being let down and being held to in an insane standard that his competition in KC/BAL aren't because they get that help. Hell its why a narrative exists on Lamar come post season because their defense generally is decent come the post season but the offense has too many days like we did last night.

[harryS]

I don't get the "who would you replace him with" questions.  We'd have to wait until the offseason, sure, but then the Bills would have the pick of litter among the best OC and head coaches available.  (I would not hire a DC).  Every coach would love to coach Josh Allen.

 

Heck, we probably should've just hired Vrabel ourselves.

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Again 

 

This is just going to show every single poster with a backbone versus every single one who's spineless 

 

And I'm being 1,000% serious 

 

First place in the NFL

I am not a fire McD guy, but his coordinator hires have not been enough. We've allocated a lot to the defense. No matter what we dump into the DL, we've seen no improvement! I don't know who that falls on... but anything short of a SB appearance and im at:

 

1A. Keep McD, hire a baller DC. Can't believe Fangio was floating around and we missed out, inexcusable.

 

1B. If that cant happen, then I'm finally ready for a change. Id so much rather #1 for the continuity and the high floor ceiling McD gives us. Its just glaringly obvious the defense and young d- Coordinator is not going to be enough.

 

There's too much talent and resources on that side, and what feels like absolutely piss poor player development on the DL. 

 

Big Ed took forever to ball out. Rousseau has plateaud below his true ceiling. Epenesa has been solid, but unspectacular. We've had a billion DTs underperform here, and constantly shuffled. Dwayne Carter looking unrosterable as a 3rd rd pick. That wake forest 2nd rder im forgetting.

 

Von Miller i chalk up to chit happens with that injury.

 

Not ragging on them about any one player on DL as much as I am the entirety of the performance of the groups. Here's more:

 

Mario Addison

Vernon Butler

Quinton Jefferson

Javon Solomon

 

Ill give all the rookies slack here, its 4 games in. Walker looks like a home run (but I worry about not being able to get him or other guys to their ceiling via development). Landon Jackson was always going to be a redshirt IMO, but again, i worry about his development here with our history at building these guys up.

 

Where is our Kromer from the defense?!

Edited 51 minutes ago by BillsShredder83

[Gregg]

Here is another question. Let's say Terry does clean house (it won't happen) who would you want to replace Beane with. This roster is flawed. Great QB, and RB. Good OL. The WR's and TE's are mostly average and the defense needs upgrading in both the front 7 and secondary. The GM is responsible for putting the roster together so again who would you want to replace Beane with. 

[BillsShredder83]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

Here is another question. Let's say Terry does clean house (it won't happen) who would you want to replace Beane with. This roster is flawed. Great QB, and RB. Good OL. The WR's and TE's are mostly average and the defense needs upgrading in both the front 7 and secondary. The GM is responsible for putting the roster together so again who would you want to replace Beane with. 

Absolutely not in camp of moving on from Beane under any circumstances. McD is a defensive minded HC. You want Beane in sync with what that guy wants... a GM going rogue is a bad GM. We are a very good drafting team by every metric.

 

We havent hit as many HRs as id like but Spencer Brown, Cook, Bernard, Shakir have all been HRs relative to where they've been picked.

 

1st rd has been really solid-very good for the most part (in comparison to the best GMs).

 

2nd rd has been a weird boogieman a bunch.  

 

3rd and later has been excellent.

 

I dont want McD gone, I want a bonafide top tier DC here. And Sean to be hands off that side. Time for Terry to put up or shut up, "dig a well", and pay whatever to get a serious DC in house. 

 

It makes no sense to pay into a roster what we do, build new stadium, state of art facility, be this close, and then be scared to drop a bag on someone to help get us over the top. Especially without a salary cap for coaches.

[boco357]

Hoping Stafford retires and make a play for Sean McVay.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is legit driving me crazy…I love Josh and was probably close to a Josh can do no wrong person before postgame last night but hearing all this ‘they just need a defense that can get one stop and give Josh a chance to win it’ getting said a lot is starting to irk me.  That is literally exactly what has happened the last two years against the chiefs 

 

The bills offense has been listless against the chiefs in the fourth quarter the last two playoff matchups and were borderline useless against Baltimore both times we saw them. Yea 13 seconds was all on the defense obviously and I totally get people being salty about that still but it’s warping games that have happened after 

 

The its all McDermott and the defense narrative just ignores facts.   Especially when people start the hire Belichick nonsense.   Allen is fantastic, but to completely deny his role in not winning a championship isnt living in reality.  

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

I agree with you, but shouldn't this be directed at Beane more so than McDermott. Beane is the GM, and he is the one responsible for putting the roster together. I am sure McDermott has a say, but Terry Pegula said that both men report to him, and they both have equal power. Beane has the final say on GM matters when it comes to the draft and FA. So, McDermott isn't the boss of Beane like some on this board think he is. 

 

The Pegulas have made it clear that both Beane/McDermott are equals.  Neither is the boss of the other.

 

It never works out when a GM drafts players that don't fit the system.  The coaching staff won't use or develop them properly.

 

I truly believe that's the #2 reason that Doug Whaley failed as a GM (with the #1 reason being not finding a QB).  He had a good eye for talent, but worked poorly with the coaches.  I also think that's one of the reasons Kaiir Elam totally busted.  His skillset never fit our defense, so he got buried on the depth chart and then spent years trying to develop into a sound zone corner.  If our coaching staff is requesting a particular kind of D-Lineman, Linebacker, Cornerback, Etc.... then Beane would be foolish to go against their wishes, even if he believes a different kind of player would be better. 

 

The real problem is that the NFL trends change and evolve over time.  When McDermott first came to town, more teams were attacking downfield with the passing game.  His system was built to stop that.  But now offenses have gradually started getting bigger and better at running the ball.  Our small front 7 and heavy nickel stuff is outdated.  Not to mention the general philosophy of bend/don't break, force offenses into long drives, etc. has proven to be ineffective against playoff level QBs.  So that side of the ball is generally dead in the water.

[corta765]

13 minutes ago, boco357 said:

Hoping Stafford retires and make a play for Sean McVay.

 

 

We Need To Pay One Billion Dollars lol

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

The its all McDermott and the defense narrative just ignores facts.   Especially when people start the hire Belichick nonsense.   Allen is fantastic, but to completely deny his role in not winning a championship isnt living in reality.  

 

McD's defense in playoff losses since 2019 allow on average 30 ppg. Chiefs 25 & Ravens 20 ppg allowed. Josh has been the greatest reason those games have been close even if he has not been perfect. No QB including Mahomes will last when the biggest game every year your looking at needing 30 points just to tie. 

[MikePJ76]

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

I don't know who i would want besides Reid or Vrabel, but for anyone who was ever undecided with the competency of our coaching staff, just ask yourself one question.........in year 9, does this team look like a championship competitor or does it look like the same ole shite being shoved down our throats every year, where nothing is being addressed seriously or adequately?

 

I'll wait.

Both Vrabel and Reid were fired, you do realize that right?  Reid was mcdermott before he broke through with mahomes.   Vrabel has not accomplished anything McDermott hasn't as an nfl coach.  

 

I like Vrabel and hate reid but what is the point here of this post?

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

There are clearly no other options on a planet with a population of 8 billion people so we must stick with Sean. Besides. Allen is clearly the problem here with his substandard play so until we rid ourselves of a guy whose number one priority is making commercials Sean will never be allowed to shine. Bit of a run-on sentence there at the end but english wasn't really my strength in school. Much more of a math guy.

[thenorthremembers]

22 minutes ago, corta765 said:

We Need To Pay One Billion Dollars lol

 

McD's defense in playoff losses since 2019 allow on average 30 ppg. Chiefs 25 & Ravens 20 ppg allowed. Josh has been the greatest reason those games have been close even if he has not been perfect. No QB including Mahomes will last when the biggest game every year your looking at needing 30 points just to tie. 

Statistics are pointless if you limit them by year and losses.   You're literally shaping them to say what you want, which is McDermott is no good.   The Bills had the ball to win the game last year and didnt do it.  If they score a touchdown last night on their final drive they likely win.    But because you keep making statements without actually looking at the facts, lets compare Allen and Mahomes in the playoffs where they needed 30 points just to tie.   Mahomes has been in that situation 6 times in his career and is 3-3.   Allen 4 times and is 0-4.   So if you have Mahomes and your defense cant deliver the win, you still have a 50% chance of winning the game.   When you're the Bills your quarterback has never in his career done it.  

 

The greatest Quarterbacks win even when they play the best teams at their best.    Josh is the highest paid player on the roster for a reason.   Its time to stop blaming the defense and start looking at Josh when he has the ball in the 4th quarter in the game and cant do it. 

Edited just now by thenorthremembers