Allen vs Mahomes, is this a controversial take?

[Billl]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think the difference is the Chiefs playoff defense.  
 

Andy Reids offense the last two years was very average.  They still made it to the Super Bowl because the defense carried them.

The Chiefs defense carried them to the Superbowl with a 32-29 win in the AFCCG?

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

The Chiefs defense carried them to the Superbowl with a 32-29 win in the AFCCG?

 

Good point. The Bills defense carried them to the Super Bowl is a more accurate statement.

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

The Chiefs defense carried them to the Superbowl with a 32-29 win in the AFCCG?

 

The Bills defense did.

[C.Biscuit97]

This needs to stop 😂

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Good point. The Bills defense carried them to the Super Bowl is a more accurate statement.

 

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Bills defense did.

So when the Bills scored 29 points, it was because of great play by Allen, and when the Chiefs scored 32 points, it was because of poor play by the Bills defense.  Kind of a “heads I win, tails you lose” sort of standard.

[Buffalo4Life01]

Posts like this  are why Bills fans are the laughing stock and the butt of many jokes over at Chiefs Kingdom.  Circumstances don't matter in the end.  Nothing is going to matter or change until Allen and the Bills finally beat KC in the playoffs AND win a Super Bowl.  Yes, Andy Reid has certainly helped further Mahome's career to this point, but the same can be said in reverse.  Andy couldn't get the job done in Philly with Mcnabb, TO, and Westbrook and the team decided to move on from him for a reason.  

Bottom line, both QB's are great and every team in the NFL would take Mahomes as their starting QB in a heartbeat and every team in the NFL would take Allen as their starting QB with the exception of one team.  Narratives can be rewritten and revised and Allen and the Bills are still writing theirs now.

Go Bills!!!!

[MJS]

38 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

To that point, if our regime would only invest more draft capital in defense, argle bargle barf

Funny, because the Chiefs also invest a ton of draft capital in defense.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

So when the Bills scored 29 points, it was because of great play by Allen

 

Allen and Cook, yeah.

 

Not sure if you watched the game but KC's offense looked like it was facing a scout team in the 1st half. Four drives with exactly zero resistance. Mahomes felt bad and gave us the ball for free on one of those drives, which was nice of him. Our offense on the other hand was scratching and clawing for every yard and TD.

 

Oh well. Last year is last year. Hopefully all the investments and coaching additions we made on that side of the ball this offseason make a difference. I expect KC's offense to get back on track this year with the addition of Josh Simmons and Rashee Rice after his suspension ends.

[Buffalo716]

50 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Spags.  give me that guy.

Spagnola has plenty of bad defenses under his resume 

 

What he does is when he has a lot of talent he maximizes it 

 

He doesn't do a lot with a little he's good with a lot.. Sean McDermott has a much better defensive resume across the board

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo4Life01 said:

Bottom line, both QB's are great and every team in the NFL would take Mahomes as their starting QB in a heartbeat and every team in the NFL would take Allen as their starting QB with the exception of one team.

 

Baltimore and Cincy wouldn't. None of those 4 teams would trade their QB for one of the others because they've built their teams around their own QBs and the difference in play between them is negligible. Now if you gave those teams the opportunity to swap coaching staffs, every last one would take KC's. Rosters outside of QB, they'd all take Baltimore.

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

Yeah, I kind of need a little break from roster talk.

 

I think at this stage of their careers, Allen is the better downfield passer and clearly the better runner (although Pat is a good scrambler when he needs to be and certainly has a good downfield arm when he uses it)..  However, I think many of us have seen that Mahomes is the better dink and dunker.  He's always been.   At the end of those close playoff games when KC needs a critical TD or FG, it's the dink and dunk plus Andy Reid play call mastery that gives KC a slight edge.  We've had two seasons in a row end with the ball in our hands, and the Bills can't take what the D gives and execute a short dump off to get the needed yardage.  I'm just wondering if the Bills start working on that more this season,,, or maybe they keep some plays in their back pocket for critical playoff moments.

I'm convinced last year wouldn't have mattered if we scored or not. It would have been called back on a penalty anyway. The refs weren't gonna let us win that game. The ball spotting stuff throughout the game and the Cole Bishop play which should have either been a pick or an incomplete pass tells me that 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Spagnola has plenty of bad defenses under his resume 

 

What he does is when he has a lot of talent he maximizes it 

 

He doesn't do a lot with a little he's good with a lot.. Sean McDermott has a much better defensive resume across the board

Spags has better situational play calling. In the big moments, he produces. That's the difference.

[DapperCam]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

So when the Bills scored 29 points, it was because of great play by Allen, and when the Chiefs scored 32 points, it was because of poor play by the Bills defense.  Kind of a “heads I win, tails you lose” sort of standard.

 

Bills defense:

- Surrendered more points to the Chiefs than any other team all season.

- Had to face the 17th ranked offense by yards, 15th ranked offense by points
 

Bills offense:

- Scored more points against the Chiefs than any other team to that point (other than Bills part 1 and week 17 with all backups).

- Scored the most points in a game vs KC in Arrowhead since October 10, 2022 (for any team).

- Had to face the 9th ranked defense by yards, 4th ranked defense by points

Bills defense wasn't very good in the regular season, and nobody really expected them to be (it was supposed to be a reload year where younger players got some playing time and we ate dead cap).

[QB Bills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo4Life01 said:

Posts like this  are why Bills fans are the laughing stock and the butt of many jokes over at Chiefs Kingdom.  Circumstances don't matter in the end.  Nothing is going to matter or change until Allen and the Bills finally beat KC in the playoffs AND win a Super Bowl.  Yes, Andy Reid has certainly helped further Mahome's career to this point, but the same can be said in reverse.  Andy couldn't get the job done in Philly with Mcnabb, TO, and Westbrook and the team decided to move on from him for a reason.  

Bottom line, both QB's are great and every team in the NFL would take Mahomes as their starting QB in a heartbeat and every team in the NFL would take Allen as their starting QB with the exception of one team.  Narratives can be rewritten and revised and Allen and the Bills are still writing theirs now.

Go Bills!!!!

Umm, no. The Bills should never entertain the idea of replacing Allen with Mahomes. Or any other qb in the league. 

 

I think some of you really overestimate the talent level on this team and how f'd they'd be without Josh.

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Brand J said:

I think Mahomes in “gotta have it” moments makes the correct play more often than not, more than any other QB in the league. Allen is the bigger dual threat, but if you told me one of the two went 39/48 for 512 yards and 4 TDs, I would assume it’s Mahomes. He’s a better high volume passer and has proven it when throwing to JAGs.

I'm confused, why is he throwing to Jags players?

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

Spags has better situational play calling. In the big moments, he produces. That's the difference.

I mean I've watched his defenses for 16 years also struggle in situational moments 

 

The difference is he has Chris Jones who collapses a pocket fast and wrecks games rn and is healthy in the playoffs 

 

He has made plenty of bad calls in fact his defense got his ass whooped for four quarters in the super bowl 

 

 and I've also seen plenty of McDermott defenses make plays in the last 2 minutes of games over his 16 years as a defensive coordinator and head coach 

 

It's not even close.. if you gave McDermott and spagnola access to all 32 defenses for one game who would do better with 32 

 

McDermott would have much more success than spagnola 

 

If you take Total defense.. passing yards against, passing touchdowns against, rushing yards against, rushing touchdowns against and turnovers... McDermott and spagnola have both been head coaches or defensive coordinators for 16 years and Sean McDermott is well ahead of him for top 10 defenses when you take all those metrics

Edited August 27 by Buffalo716

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm confused, why is he throwing to Jags players?

Chiefs skill positions had a rash of injuries. 

[Buffalo4Life01]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Baltimore and Cincy wouldn't. None of those 4 teams would trade their QB for one of the others because they've built their teams around their own QBs and the difference in play between them is negligible. Now if you gave those teams the opportunity to swap coaching staffs, every last one would take KC's. Rosters outside of QB, they'd all take Baltimore.

I don't agree with you but I appreciate your take.  I'm just frustrated that we wine and cry and complain and fight to the death that Allen is better than Paddy.  Until the hardware is equal or much closer, no one outside of some Bills fans will ever believe that or give any credit to that thought process.  Just reality.  

4 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

Umm, no. The Bills should never entertain the idea of replacing Allen with Mahomes. Or any other qb in the league. 

 

I think some of you really overestimate the talent level on this team and how f'd they'd be without Josh.

I'm not overestimating anyone on our beloved Bills.  I'm just tired of all the crying and complaining and whining that we do as a fan base lately.  Go out in the playoffs and beat KC.  It's as simple as that.  Until we can do that, nothing else matters.  None of this crying and comparing of qb's to one another is anything more than wasted time.

[T.E.]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Baltimore and Cincy wouldn't. None of those 4 teams would trade their QB for one of the others because they've built their teams around their own QBs and the difference in play between them is negligible. Now if you gave those teams the opportunity to swap coaching staffs, every last one would take KC's. Rosters outside of QB, they'd all take Baltimore.

The Ravens would likely grade Lamar Jackson for Allen or Mahomes. They'd at least think about it, whereas the Bills and Chiefs would never even entertain the idea.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo4Life01 said:

I don't agree with you but I appreciate your take.  I'm just frustrated that we wine and cry and complain and fight to the death that Allen is better than Paddy.  Until the hardware is equal or much closer, no one outside of some Bills fans will ever believe that or give any credit to that thought process.  Just reality.  

I'm not overestimating anyone on our beloved Bills.  I'm just tired of all the crying and complaining and whining that we do as a fan base lately.  Go out in the playoffs and beat KC.  It's as simple as that.  Until we can do that, nothing else matters.  None of this crying and comparing of qb's to one another is anything more than wasted time.

We can't beat KC in the playoffs is the point lol

 

Every single year they score more against us than anyone else