The Bills Have a Shavers Problem?

[Dillenger4]

22 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Remember how everyone freaked out when Hodgins got claimed by the Giants and had some productivity there? Well, he spent last season on their PS and is currently on a reserves/futures contract in SF and will probably get cut today. These end-of-the-roster guys are not worth this much angst. 

Not so sure about that. Remember Fred Jackson? He was in the exact same spot Shavers is in. Pre-season love our of lives and then... doesn't make the 53. Until he finally did and voila. Superstar!

Shavers reminds me of Fred. Just waiting to make his name in the NFL as a starter that produces.

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Remember how everyone freaked out when Hodgins got claimed by the Giants and had some productivity there? Well, he spent last season on their PS and is currently on a reserves/futures contract in SF and will probably get cut today. These end-of-the-roster guys are not worth this much angst. 

Shavers is much superior to Hodgins.  That’s not a fair comparison imo

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Based on camp and preseason games, I will be shocked if Shavers doesn't make the 53.

The question is which bum out of Moore, Samuel and Shenault is kept as the #5. Imo, we should roster at least 5 to account for in game injuries. 

 

Moore and Shenault are good as gone.  And Samuel is not a bum

[Low Positive]

Just now, Pete said:

Shavers is much superior to Hodgins.  That’s not a fair comparison imo

I don't see how we have any evidence to support this claim.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Low Positive said:

I don't see how we have any evidence to support this claim.

Eyes.  Hodgins was a slow one trick pony.  Shavers has better speed, mits, route running, is a better blocker and special teams player. It’s not even close 

[Starr Almighty]

I like what Shavers has done but I still have the fear that he will be like Isaiah Hodgins. I hope he can make that great go away and produce.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

46 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Remember how everyone freaked out when Hodgins got claimed by the Giants and had some productivity there? Well, he spent last season on their PS and is currently on a reserves/futures contract in SF and will probably get cut today. These end-of-the-roster guys are not worth this much angst. 

 

"But... But... But... We NEED something to angst over!"

 

-50% of TBD (Probably)

[Mat68]

Problem?  No.  I think it’s 50/50. This may not sound like a bad thing but could be what keeps him off the roster.  He is a better WR than he is a special teams player. I don't think the special teams coach pegs him as one of his core guys.  He is a willing body but not a center piece.  I think Shenualt could be.  Returner and coverage.  I think the locker room is behind Shavers.  I favor offense and defense over teams but at spot 51,52,53 you best play teams and make an impact doing it.  

[Ya Digg?]

22 minutes ago, Pete said:

Eyes.  Hodgins was a slow one trick pony.  Shavers has better speed, mits, route running, is a better blocker and special teams player. It’s not even close 

This to me is all being said in hindsight. There were incredibly long threads on here talking about how the Bills blew it, Hodgins was going to be amazing, on and on and on. No one was saying he was a one trick pony 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Eyes.  Hodgins was a slow one trick pony.  Shavers has better speed, mits, route running, is a better blocker and special teams player. It’s not even close 

Shavers brings some good traits to the table but speed and explosion are not amongst them. He may be a bit faster than Hodgins but in fact they are both pretty slow. Kaden Prather had much better straight line speed though he too had a disappointing vertical and broad jump at the combine. 
Personally I feel that Shavers has earned himself a spot on the roster. He may even be able to hold onto it. 

[hondo in seattle]

I like Shavers because we don't have a bunch of big targets for Josh and he seems like a good kid.  And his one-handed grab was fantastic.

 

But he's never been good enough to crack an opening day roster, and I wonder - at the ripe NFL age of 26 - if he's any better this year than last.  It seems to me he's still slow (4.64 40) and has trouble gaining separation.  

 

We've seen a little of him in preseason games, but I wonder who he's been outperforming in camp.  

 

Edited August 25 by hondo in seattle

[Pete]

53 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I like Shavers because we don't have a bunch of big targets for Josh and he seems like a good kid.  And his one-handed grab was fantastic.

 

But he's never been good enough to crack an opening day roster, and I wonder - at the ripe NFL age of 26 - if he's any better this year than last.  It seems to me he's still slow (4.64 40) and has trouble gaining separation.  

 

We've seen a little of him in preseason games, but I wonder who he's been outperforming in camp.  

 

Shavers does not have a problem with separation.  He’s proved this preseason he can separate.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Shavers does not have a problem with separation.  He’s proved this preseason he can separate.

 

I don't know about that.  He wasn't 'open' on his TD catch.  And getting a step or two against scrubs on other reps doesn't prove anything.

 

We already have one slow wideout on the 53, not sure we need two.  

 

Then again, both Keon and Shavers are faster than Hall of Famer Steven Largent who reportedly only ran a 4.7.  

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't know about that.  He wasn't 'open' on his TD catch.  And getting a step or two against scrubs on other reps doesn't prove anything.

 

We already have one slow wideout on the 53, not sure we need two.  

 

Then again, both Keon and Shavers are faster than Hall of Famer Steven Largent who reportedly only ran a 4.7.  

For one, he caught a 58 yard TD this preseason.  Did anyone on the 2024 Bills have a Receiving TD longer than 58 yards?  Oh yeah, Shavers had a 69 yard receiving TD, which was the Bills longest receiving TD last year.  Shavers route running has been tremendous.  Bills needed a basket in preseason, and Shavers ran a beautiful route with a double move, and got open for the first down. Thats refreshing, after last year where it was rare a WR beat their man on 3rd down

Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. Speed is nice, but there is a lot more nuances to getting separation.  Keon is getting separation at times.  Route Running is an art unto itself.

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

.  And Samuel is not a bum

Not when he is on the field but the guy is hardly ever available. As a performer for the Bills he has been a bum. 

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think Samuel is going anywhere. If he ever gets healthy, he would be such a great fit for this offense. 

How long have we been saying that? We can't bank on hope

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not when he is on the field but the guy is hardly ever available. As a performer for the Bills he has been a bum. 

How long have we been saying that? We can't bank on hope

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/curtis-samuel-s-12-yard-touchdown-reception-gives-bills-nine-point-lead-bills-vs-chiefs

4.31 speed.  He is great friends with Josh and Brady loves him.  

That’s Curtis beating Surtain, and Curtis 2 Playoff TDs

[Captain Hindsight]

36 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not when he is on the field but the guy is hardly ever available. As a performer for the Bills he has been a bum. 

How long have we been saying that? We can't bank on hope

I’m not banking on hope, but he would be an excellent fit here if healthy. With his cap number, I think he stays. JMO

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

For one, he caught a 58 yard TD this preseason.  Did anyone on the 2024 Bills have a Receiving TD longer than 58 yards?  Oh yeah, Shavers had a 69 yard receiving TD, which was the Bills longest receiving TD last year.  Shavers route running has been tremendous.  Bills needed a basket in preseason, and Shavers ran a beautiful route with a double move, and got open for the first down. Thats refreshing, after last year where it was rare a WR beat their man on 3rd down

Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. Speed is nice, but there is a lot more nuances to getting separation.  Keon is getting separation at times.  Route Running is an art unto itself.

I think Rice's supposed time of 4.71 is an urban myth though he wasn't especially fast, and I agree about the importance of route running.  

 

Years ago, the Redskins did well with a bunch of short wideouts nicknamed the "Smurfs."  Maybe we can line up Shavers and Keon and call 'em the "Turtles."  If they're as productive as the Smurfs and bring home a Lombardi, I'll be happy.

 

I still can't excited about a guy who's looked good in preseason against 2s, 3s, and 4s and has been so unimpressive in camp that he's been waived not once but twice.  But I want you to be right and him to succeed so I won't argue the point.  Let's both hope he makes the roster and shocks the football world with his production.

[Pete]

14 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think Rice's supposed time of 4.71 is an urban myth though he wasn't especially fast, and I agree about the importance of route running.  

 

Years ago, the Redskins did well with a bunch of short wideouts nicknamed the "Smurfs."  Maybe we can line up Shavers and Keon and call 'em the "Turtles."  If they're as productive as the Smurfs and bring home a Lombardi, I'll be happy.

 

I still can't excited about a guy who's looked good in preseason against 2s, 3s, and 4s and has been so unimpressive in camp that he's been waived not once but twice.  But I want you to be right and him to succeed so I won't argue the point.  Let's both hope he makes the roster and shocks the football world with his production.

Jerry Rice's fastest 40-yard dash time is reported to be 4.71 seconds. While this time is considered relatively slow for a wide receiver, especially when compared to other players in his position, it's important to note that his on-field speed and performance were exceptional, demonstrating that football speed isn't solely determined by a 40-yard dash time, according to NFL Buzz on Facebook. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

Reported time:

4.71 seconds. 

Comparison to other WRs:

Many wide receivers in the NFL run the 40-yard dash in the 4.4-4.5 second range, making Rice's time slower than average for his position. 

Football speed vs. 40 time:

NFL Buzz on Facebook explains that football speed is about more than just the 40-yard dash. Rice's ability to accelerate, change direction, and maintain speed throughout a play, along with his route running and ability to catch passes, made him a dominant receiver despite his 40-yard dash time. 

Bill Walsh's perspective:

Former 49ers coach Bill Walsh, who coached Rice, mentioned that while Rice's 40 time was slower than some receivers, his game film showed exceptional agility, route running, and finishing ability. 

 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Jerry Rice's fastest 40-yard dash time is reported to be 4.71 seconds. While this time is considered relatively slow for a wide receiver, especially when compared to other players in his position, it's important to note that his on-field speed and performance were exceptional, demonstrating that football speed isn't solely determined by a 40-yard dash time, according to NFL Buzz on Facebook. 

Here's a more detailed breakdown: 

Reported time:

4.71 seconds. 

Comparison to other WRs:

Many wide receivers in the NFL run the 40-yard dash in the 4.4-4.5 second range, making Rice's time slower than average for his position. 

Football speed vs. 40 time:

NFL Buzz on Facebook explains that football speed is about more than just the 40-yard dash. Rice's ability to accelerate, change direction, and maintain speed throughout a play, along with his route running and ability to catch passes, made him a dominant receiver despite his 40-yard dash time. 

Bill Walsh's perspective:

Former 49ers coach Bill Walsh, who coached Rice, mentioned that while Rice's 40 time was slower than some receivers, his game film showed exceptional agility, route running, and finishing ability. 

 

 

I agree with your basic premise but not Jerry's 40 time of 4.71 which is probably an urban myth.  Yes, you see 4.71 on the internet but no credible sources say he ran that slow.

 

Gil Brandt (then an exec with Dallas), said they timed Jerry 9 times and his best time was 4.55.  Or to be more precise, he said, “We timed Jerry in the 40 nine times, and he never got under 4.55.”

 

Bill Walsh said in an interview that Rice ran a 4.59.

 

Rollie Dotsch, then a coach in the USFL, may or may not have known what he was talking about when he said Rice runs a 4.45.

 

To support your general point, Rice once said, “The 40 is overrated. I never ran a good 40, but they couldn’t catch me.”  

 

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with your basic premise but not Jerry's 40 time of 4.71 which is probably an urban myth.  Yes, you see 4.71 on the internet but no credible sources say he ran that slow.

 

Gil Brandt (then an exec with Dallas), said they timed Jerry 9 times and his best time was 4.55.  Or to be more precise, he said, “We timed Jerry in the 40 nine times, and he never got under 4.55.”

 

Bill Walsh said in an interview that Rice ran a 4.59.

 

Rollie Dotsch, then a coach in the USFL, may or may not have known what he was talking about when he said Rice runs a 4.45.

 

To support your general point, Rice once said, “The 40 is overrated. I never ran a good 40, but they couldn’t catch me.”  

 

 

 

Back when Rice played noone said he ran 4.71.  It was always around 4.55 from what I remember.  And I watched his entire career.  It has been a while.  But the way he played WR will never be duplicated.  Whatever he ran in the 40, he never looked slow running on the field.  I will say that.

 

Its funny but three guys who were as fast as any WR's of any era that I saw were Isaac Curtis-Bengals, Roger Carr-Colts and Cliff Branch-Raiders.  All 3 could just burn!!  And they all played in the 1970's.