ISRAEL V IRAN: Trump just warned everyone should evacuate Tehran

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Biden was criticized for running his campaign from the basement.  trump had his normal glad handing, threat shouting rallies full of fools.  More reds died than blues.  Simple as that.

Well, your partners in blue would most definitely spread the virus on their way to, during, and on their journey back home to all manner of voter—blue, red, independent.  That was the reason the mass protests were so destructive, and why it was insane that you let your people run amok without so much as a whisper.  As a doctor, did you tell people and patients that the virus hovered above the protests?  That when they stopped at rest areas, hotels, slept in vehicles or bought supplies at stores along the way that the virus stayed in the car?  I think the problem is actually that you oversimplified something quite serious.  
 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

As a doctor, did you tell people and patients that the virus hovered above the protests?  That when they stopped at rest areas, hotels, slept in vehicles or bought supplies at stores along the way that the virus stayed in the car?

from the beginning, I told people it was most likely disseminated by aerosolized droplets and the most common methods other known viruses are known to spread via that pathway.

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Biden was criticized for running his campaign from the basement.  trump had his normal glad handing, threat shouting rallies full of fools.  More reds died than blues.  Simple as that.

https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/covid-19-cases-and-deaths-by-race-ethnicity-current-data-and-changes-over-time/
 

you might be wrong 

[gobills404]

8 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

I'm gonna spell this out just once, so people can link this

tweet to the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing,

*****-eating simian creatures that whine about BoOtS oN tHe GrOuNd

as if America's going to conduct a land invasion of Iran

with eleventy gorillion troops and fight in the caves for a generation:

 

 

It’s not just about boots on the ground. We don’t want innocent Iranian civilians to be bombed. We don’t want the Middle East to become even more destabilized than it already is. We don’t want to provoke Iran or any other nation to target US bases in retaliatory attacks. We don’t want to inspire any Muslims in western nations to commit acts of terror. Stop trying to justify war.

 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

Ben N totally screwing up the launch of the Trump phone 

Hesitation? 🤣

You speak of dt like he and his crew have a freaking clue…the ONLY person there with any cred is Rubio

Nothing I said was related to Trump. I understand the complication of it. The most was directed at the poster. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Homelander said:

We knew how to handle COVID. Some just chose not to.

 

It wasn’t an alien virus from another planet - it was a respiratory virus. And yes, it was “novel,” but that doesn’t mean we were flying blind. We’ve had pandemic playbooks for this kind of threat for decades.

 

Countries like South Korea and Taiwan didn’t possess some secret knowledge - they simply listened to scientists instead of talk show hosts.

 

Meanwhile, Russian bots-paid influencers we were busy instigating whether masks made you weak and whether bleach injections might be worth a try. And even now, some are still blaming the president who wasn’t even in office when the pandemic began.

 

And here's the indisputable truth: blue states, overall, fared better than red states. They followed the science, implemented public health measures, and took the crisis seriously. The result? Lower death rates, stronger healthcare responses, and fewer lives lost. That’s not just a political difference - it reflects a deeper reality: blue states tend to be better educated, and that matters. It means a greater trust in science, a stronger grasp of how viruses work, and a better ability to distinguish facts from conspiracies.

 

So no, it’s not that we didn’t know what to do. It’s that a significant portion of the country refused to know. That’s not a knowledge gap - it’s a values gap. And it cost lives.

 

Yes, some people did chose not to, like those who gathered in large crowds during the Summer of 2020.  Like the black community who, as aristocrat mentioned, were leery of it because of Tuskegee and because Harris said she wouldn't trust the vaccine.  Meanwhile the vaccine didn't prevent you from getting sick or prevent you from giving it to grandma when you visited her like they claimed.

 

And the studies you mention just looked at blue versus red states and didn't analyze who exactly was getting sick.  Not everyone in a blue state is a Dem and not everyone in a red state is a Republican.

In short, the virus was going to ravage the US no matter who was in Office.

Edited 15 hours ago by Doc

[BillsFanNC]

Can BillsHomestainlander tell us about the significance of exceedingly rare arginine codons in the furin cleavage site of covid-19?

 

No?

 

Must be too busy Following The Science (TM)!!

 

Meanwhile back to the thread.

 

 

[Homelander]

54 minutes ago, Doc said:

Yes, some people did chose not to, like those who gathered in large crowds during the Summer of 2020

 

Sure and many criticized that at the time, because public health isn’t a partisan issue. But let’s not pretend the protest gathering compares to the organized, sustained resistance to basic precautions - mask mandates, social distancing, and later, vaccines - that became a defining feature of the political right. 

 

55 minutes ago, Doc said:

Like the black community who, as aristocrat mentioned, were leery of it because of Tuskegee and because Harris said she wouldn't trust the vaccine. 

 

Yes, and their distrust was rooted in historical abuse - like the Tuskegee experiment you mentioned. But guess what? Black communities closed the gap in vaccination rates, especially in blue states, once trusted messengers and outreach were in place.

 

Meanwhile, large chunks of the conservative base still clung to YouTube pseudoscience and libertarian Facebook memes. Just look at @Big Blitz who still can't accept that Trump was President when the pandemic started. 

 

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

Harris said she wouldn't trust the vaccine. 

 

Would you take medical advice from a guy who told you to drink bleach?

 

Harris said she wouldn’t trust a vaccine pushed solely by Trump without scientific backing - a position that became irrelevant once the vaccines were reviewed and endorsed by the FDA, CDC, and global health experts. And she got vaccinated on camera like every other responsible adult. Why didn't Trump?

 

58 minutes ago, Doc said:

Meanwhile the vaccine didn't prevent you from getting sick or prevent you from giving it to grandma when you visited her like they claimed.

 

It dramatically reduced severe illness, hospitalization, and death - especially in the early waves. That’s how vaccines work: not force fields, but firewalls. And pretending they were worthless because they didn’t offer 100% sterilizing immunity is like saying seatbelts are useless because they don’t prevent all injuries.

 

59 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not everyone in a blue state is a Dem and not everyone in a red state is a Republican.

 

Of course. But we’re talking about state-level outcomes - which correlate overwhelmingly with public health policy, governance, and yes, partisan control. Red states had higher death rates. That’s data you cannot contest.

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

In short, the virus was going to ravage the US no matter who was in Office.

 

Sure - it was going to hit. But the scale of the tragedy, the number of lives lost, and the chaos we lived through? That wasn’t inevitable. That was policy failure, willful ignorance, and political theater that cost hundreds of thousands of lives unnecessarily.

 

 

[Homelander]

 

[Big Blitz]

Libs want Trump to be the POTUS where Iran gets a nuke.  
 

Same people that rooted for “Covid” deaths.   
 

 

They truly believe the Obama bribe worked and Iran was in no way developing a nuke or pursuing enriching uranium for such purposes.  They’re great trustworthy people.  
 

 

 

My bet is we will be bombing them very soon.  
 

If a deal is made, libs will say Trump caved - the deal is a joke and Iran will cheat anyway.

 

They were totally trustworthy with Obama - but Trump will TACO or some b.s.   

[Homelander]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Libs want Trump to be the POTUS where Iran gets a nuke.  
 

Same people that rooted for “Covid” deaths.   
 

 

They truly believe the Obama bribe worked and Iran was in no way developing a nuke or pursuing enriching uranium for such purposes.  They’re great trustworthy people.  
 

 

 

My bet is we will be bombing them very soon.  
 

If a deal is made, libs will say Trump caved - the deal is a joke and Iran will cheat anyway.

 

They were totally trustworthy with Obama - but Trump will TACO or some b.s.   

 

Projection’s a hell of a drug.

[sherpa]

Back to the thread subject.

The "two weeks" thing from Trump is getting a lot of attention by a poster in this thread. I won't comment in those threads, but......

 

I heard a couple days ago from an Israeli military expert who claimed that Israel could probable keep up its Air Force strikes for about :two weeks more."

The next day Trump throws out the same number.

[SectionC3]

16 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Back to the thread subject.

The "two weeks" thing from Trump is getting a lot of attention by a poster in this thread. I won't comment in those threads, but......

 

I heard a couple days ago from an Israeli military expert who claimed that Israel could probable keep up its Air Force strikes for about :two weeks more."

The next day Trump throws out the same number.

Israel painted itself into a corner. This has to end with, at the very least, Fordow destroyed.  The Israelis can't do it from the air alone.  So, it's either boots on the ground (which probably will require US "transportation" services at the very least) or the US bunker buster.   So now Israel really needs US help to get this thing to a somewhat reasonable conclusion.  Trump bought some time for negotiations but, realistically, it's going to be hard for Iran to agree to anything with Israeli jets over Tehran, and Netanyahu is going to struggle to agree to anything that doesn't involve the Iranian nuclear program physically destroyed.  

[sherpa]

13 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Israel painted itself into a corner. This has to end with, at the very least, Fordow destroyed. 

 

I don't see it that way at all.

Israel was completely aware of the Natanz and Fordow facilities prior to their action.

I read a detailed report of what it would take and the suggested efficacy of the US' Massive Ordnance Penetrator months ago, which isn't a guarantee.

Either way, the Israelis have prosecuted this action with incredible skill and I doubt there have been any surprises other than Iranian incompetence since it began.

[All_Pro_Bills]

28 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Israel painted itself into a corner. This has to end with, at the very least, Fordow destroyed.  The Israelis can't do it from the air alone.  So, it's either boots on the ground (which probably will require US "transportation" services at the very least) or the US bunker buster.   So now Israel really needs US help to get this thing to a somewhat reasonable conclusion.  Trump bought some time for negotiations but, realistically, it's going to be hard for Iran to agree to anything with Israeli jets over Tehran, and Netanyahu is going to struggle to agree to anything that doesn't involve the Iranian nuclear program physically destroyed.  

Rather than paint themselves into a corner Isreal has cleverly manipulated the situation by placing pressure and focus on the US to become directly involved in the conflict. Publicly placing responsibility for the fate of the world exposed to the potential of Iranian nuclear weapons that don't exist at present. Playing us like a puppet. 

My view is stay out and leave them to sink or swim. This nonsensical world cop thing aside it's their fight not ours.

Edited 5 hours ago by All_Pro_Bills

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I don't see it that way at all.

Israel was completely aware of the Natanz and Fordow facilities prior to their action.

I read a detailed report of what it would take and the suggested efficacy of the US' Massive Ordnance Penetrator months ago, which isn't a guarantee.

Either way, the Israelis have prosecuted this action with incredible skill and I doubt there have been any surprises other than Iranian incompetence since it began.

I strongly disagree.  Israel started a preemptive war with the intention of destroying Iranian nuclear capability.  If you think the Iranians, to the extent the regime survives this, won't do anything they can to get a nuke after this episode, then I have a bridge to sell you.  Obviously any sort of nuclear accord that involves the survival of Fordow isn't acceptable to the Israelis. Netanyahu has been saying for years that Iran is weeks away from a nuke.  So for him to justify the expense and domestic loss incurred as a result of this, Fordow--the epicenter of the Iranian nuke program--has to go.  They can't take anything less. 

7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Rather than paint themselves into a corner Isreal has cleverly manipulated the situation by placing pressure and focus on the US to become directly involved in the conflict. Publicly placing responsibility for the fate of the world exposed to the potential of Iranian nuclear weapons that don't exist at present. Playing us like a puppet. 

My view is stay out and leave them to sink or swim. This nonsensical world cop thing aside it's their fight not ours.

 

That's a corner.  They can't finish this without kinetic US help.  They don't have kinetic US help.  The way out of the corner is kinetic US help.  

[ComradeKayAdams]

12 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I’ll answer your questions, but I’m genuinely curious what you think SHOULD happen.

 

How should Iran be treated when it comes to the nuclear threat, regardless of how close they are to building a bomb? What is a reasonable expectation for how a neighboring country should respond to a regime that threatens its existence and actively funds and arms violent proxies surrounding it? And how should allies of that country respond, especially if they claim to share its security concerns?

 

I understand the hesitation. I can even agree that Iran might not be on the verge of weaponization, and that ultimately, meaningful change within Iran has to come from its own people. But at some point, doesn’t the world have to confront the fact that a regime with deep connections to terrorism is becoming increasingly nuclear capable?

 

To me, this was always going to be a ***** sandwich. Maybe it did not have to be dealt with right now, but it was always going to come to a head eventually. So the real question is not whether to deal with it but how and when. The longer it is delayed, the more dangerous and unstable it becomes. There was never going to be a clean or comfortable moment to handle this. Someone was always going to have to take the first bite. The only question is whether it is done recklessly and alone, or strategically and with collective responsibility.

 

I still don't know what is the best answer is, but what I'm reading here is a lot of people that agree or don't agree but neither side comes up up with a solution to deal with the underlying issues of either position they want to take. You seem to have a high amount of knowledge of the region so what would be your strategy here?  

 

What I think SHOULD happen? As an ardent non-interventionist, I would have Iran agree to a JCPOA v2.0 crafted by the IAEA. In return, the international community would lift all economic sanctions on Iran, agree to a permanent ceasefire, and impose a worldwide BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction) policy against Israel if Israel does not oblige. I would also open up all channels of cultural communication with Iran as part of the deal, which would essentially be a “Trojan horse” strategy to foment internal dissent and revolution via secular humanist principles.

 

Consider these additional questions as you assess this topic:

 

1. Who do you trust the most among Trump, Netanyahu, Khamenei, and the IAEA? My answer: easily the IAEA. Not even close.

 

2. Is Iran a rational actor or an irrational one? My answer: a rational one, believe it or not. Their observed behavior has remained consistent with a country fully aware of and completely invested in its self-preservation. A “rational actor,” as defined in this instance, understands that the single use of a nuclear weapon against Israel would equate to its own instant annihilation. Modern world history has taught us that possession of nuclear weapons equate to protection from American imperialism. Become Russia or North Korea and not Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, etc…

 

3. What is motivating the United States government in this conflict? My answer: the MIC, AIPAC, powerful individual oligarchs like Miriam Adelson, and (sadly) many Christian fundamentalists.

 

4. What is motivating Israel in this conflict? My answer: a quest for regional hegemony so that a Greater Israel (including Gaza, the West Bank, all of Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, southwest Syria, and southern Lebanon) can be constructed with minimal resistance.

 

5. Why did Israel attack Iran just days before the latest scheduled peace talks in Oman? My answer: to sabotage the peace talks.

 

6. Why was Trump insistent that Iran not have a nuclear energy program for civilian purposes? My answer: typical “Art of the Deal” stupidity.

 

7. What are the prospects for de-escalation? My answer: Frighteningly poor. The world leaders involved all appear to be sociopaths, in the clinical DSM-5 sense of the word. Tribalism is deeply entrenched and the dehumanization process is highly advanced. Iran just struck an Israeli hospital, for bleep’s sake, which I interpreted as an “oopsie!” response to all 36 of the hospitals Israel has targeted in Gaza since 10/7/23.

[BillsFanNC]

More please!

 

From @NellieBowles in @TheFP: “[A]ll the pro-Palestinian protests have turned pro-Iran, with folks taking to the streets waving the flag of the Islamic Republic. The American left never knew what to do with the Iranian feminist dissidents, since everyone knows those women love their subjugation. They are marching through the streets for the regime, their progressive brothers. Iran, out of the blue, posted a suggestive videos showing a man’s fingers tenderly stroking a small but thick nuke.”

 

The ideological cognitive dissonance on the left is rarely explored by legacy media and of course the AOCs et al never give interviews which are even mildly difficult so while it is obvious to outsiders it isn’t obvious to the people within “the movement.”

 

But marching for the leading state-sponsor of terror and a regime that enable the Syrian genocide while conducting 46 years of terrorist plots and killing more than 1,000 American military over that period is the most mind-bending turn yet. The Democratic Party’s capture by these cadres will be hard for the party to escape.

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

What I think SHOULD happen? As an ardent non-interventionist, I would have Iran agree to a JCPOA v2.0 crafted by the IAEA. In return, the international community would lift all economic sanctions on Iran, agree to a permanent ceasefire, and impose a worldwide BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction) policy against Israel if Israel does not oblige. I would also open up all channels of cultural communication with Iran as part of the deal, which would essentially be a “Trojan horse” strategy to foment internal dissent and revolution via secular humanist principles.

 

Consider these additional questions as you assess this topic:

 

1. Who do you trust the most among Trump, Netanyahu, Khamenei, and the IAEA? My answer: easily the IAEA. Not even close.

 

2. Is Iran a rational actor or an irrational one? My answer: a rational one, believe it or not. Their observed behavior has remained consistent with a country fully aware of and completely invested in its self-preservation. A “rational actor,” as defined in this instance, understands that the single use of a nuclear weapon against Israel would equate to its own instant annihilation. Modern world history has taught us that possession of nuclear weapons equate to protection from American imperialism. Become Russia or North Korea and not Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, etc…

 

3. What is motivating the United States government in this conflict? My answer: the MIC, AIPAC, powerful individual oligarchs like Miriam Adelson, and (sadly) many Christian fundamentalists.

 

4. What is motivating Israel in this conflict? My answer: a quest for regional hegemony so that a Greater Israel (including Gaza, the West Bank, all of Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, southwest Syria, and southern Lebanon) can be constructed with minimal resistance.

 

5. Why did Israel attack Iran just days before the latest scheduled peace talks in Oman? My answer: to sabotage the peace talks.

 

6. Why was Trump insistent that Iran not have a nuclear energy program for civilian purposes? My answer: typical “Art of the Deal” stupidity.

 

7. What are the prospects for de-escalation? My answer: Frighteningly poor. The world leaders involved all appear to be sociopaths, in the clinical DSM-5 sense of the word. Tribalism is deeply entrenched and the dehumanization process is highly advanced. Iran just struck an Israeli hospital, for bleep’s sake, which I interpreted as an “oopsie!” response to all 36 of the hospitals Israel has targeted in Gaza since 10/7/23.

This is where I'm at.  There might be a temporary pause, be it of days, months, or even a few years.  But now Iran looks at the world and sees a regional Air Force that can dominate its skies and that actually has dominated its skies in a matter of hours.  They also look at everyone leaving North Korea alone.  And the Ukrainians wishing they hadn't given up their nukes.  If the regime survives this episode, the best path to long-term security is a nuke.  Peace through strength, as "they" say.  

[Wacka]

9 hours ago, Homelander said:

 

Projection’s a hell of a drug.

And you've neem ODing on it.