Since 2020 - highest scoring offense and fewest points allowed defense

[Sojourner]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's just a different type of fandom. I'm the guy who posted a thread here the day after the Dalton miracle saying "don't hate the drought". Life isn't just about the destination. It is about the journey too. Sports are the same to me.

Well said Bill. 
 

I enjoyed the drought years thoroughly, weird I know. There was something about not having an expectation to win when you have one of the most generational talents at the most important position on the field. 
 

Winning is great but knocking a team off when you’re a perennial underdog or underachiever is just as awesome. 
 

Still, thank goodness for Josh!

[Mikie2times]

 

Chat GPT did well here. 

 

Can you discuss the pros and cons of being a fan of an NFL team that is very good and very successful over a prolonged period but never wins the super bowl

 

 

Pros

🏈 1. Consistent Enjoyment

Your team wins a lot of games, often dominates the regular season, and makes deep playoff runs.

Sundays (and sometimes Mondays or Thursdays) are generally fun and hopeful.

You can count on exciting football nearly every year.

🏆 2. Relevance and Respect

Your team is in national conversations, featured in prime-time games, and often considered a contender.

Players earn Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors, and the team earns league-wide respect, even if they don’t win it all.

💬 3. Bragging Rights (Sort Of)

You get to chirp fans of teams that are truly bad or dysfunctional — “At least we’re not the [insert struggling team here].”

You enjoy rivalry games with higher stakes.

📈 4. Hope Every Year

Offseasons are filled with "just one piece away" optimism.

The window to win feels open for a long time, which is rare in the NFL’s parity-driven system.

 

Cons

🫠 1. Crushing Disappointment

Losing in the playoffs — especially in heartbreaking or controversial fashion — can be emotionally exhausting.

Each year ends with “maybe next year,” which gets heavier the longer the drought continues.

😐 2. Perceived Failure Despite Success

Success without a Super Bowl leads to labels like “chokers,” “frauds,” or “underachievers.”

Even great players or coaches may be undervalued historically due to the lack of a championship ring.

😬 3. High Expectations Become a Burden

Every year starts with Super Bowl hopes. When it doesn’t happen, the disappointment stings more than if the team were just average.

Fans of these teams often swing between extreme confidence and fatalism.

📉 4. Legacy Issues

Without a title, eras that should be celebrated (like the 2000s Chargers, early 2010s Falcons, or recent Bills/49ers) are viewed as missed opportunities.

Hall of Fame debates can turn into “but he never won the big one.”

 

Examples of Fanbases Living This

Buffalo Bills (especially the 1990s and current Josh Allen era)

Minnesota Vikings (multiple great teams, 0 titles)

San Francisco 49ers post-1995 (lots of NFC title game appearances, no recent rings)

Cincinnati Bengals in the Burrow era (so far)

Philadelphia Eagles before 2017

 

Bottom Line

Being a fan of a consistently great but ringless team is a paradox. You get joyful consistency, meaningful football, and hope. But that same consistency makes the ultimate failure more bitter, with each near-miss deepening the longing for just one championship to validate the journey.

It’s like being so close to the summit of Everest year after year — but always stuck just below the peak

[Mister Defense]

23 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Just shows how good we’ve had it the past half decade.

Man, I hope we can turn this success into a Super Bowl title. Even if it’s just one!

 

We’ve been dominant though and we’re very fortunate to have this run as fans.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

 

How dare you start a thread like this?  Who do you think you are?

 

Just to antagonize the haters, I assume.  Just flaunting the very high quality nature of our team since McBeane established this excellent base of success.

 

Picture: a furious Yosemite Sam, turning bright red, steam pouring out of his ears, cursing his brain off...  That is what you do to that small but prolific group of posters with such a positive, upbeat OP.  I hope you're happy.

 

Those are meaningless stats you point to, and the haters will make you pay for such such a careless, ignorant, heartless thread like this. They will not stand for this.

 

Shame!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk9C1ukV-EM

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:34 PM by Mister Defense

[PonyBoy]

57 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

1998 Minnesota = Gary Anderson choke job

2007 New England = Giants Upset

 

These teams that are super successful and don't win one are ultimately remembered for not winning. Not for winning.  EX: 13 seconds. 

 

@Mikie2times I lost focus of this topic looking at your location.

 

As a Carlsbad native for quite a while I miss it there so bad. 

 

Keep your energy going on this board but take in those beaches & beautiful sunsets too.

 

We're all Bills fans, no matter where we re-located to. 

 

The Bills are infamous, for 4 SB losses and this current spell, no denying it.

 

Just 1 is what will satisfy so many of us. 🤞

[Mister Defense]

On 5/31/2025 at 4:43 PM, MJS said:

Hey, I agree. I want a Superbowl just as much as any other fan. But it is kind of annoying that any time anything positive is ever said about the team, there is a contingent of fans that come and say "it doesn't matter because we haven't won the superbowl." It gets old. We all want it. We all get it. They aren't saying anything we all don't already know. It is just this joyless, wet blanket of an attitude that isn't fun for anyone.

 

Hallelujah. 

 

Well said..

 

With that last sentence maybe the most significant, most profound. Joyless. So sad for them. But worse-- that they try so hard to bring others to that dark place.

 

Thank goodness it is only a very small percentage of 'fans' who are like that.  I cannot imagine not enjoying this current ride and the joy it has brought to me and the overwhelming majority of Bills' fans.

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Mister Defense

[BillsFan619]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Hey, I agree. I want a Superbowl just as much as any other fan. But it is kind of annoying that any time anything positive is ever said about the team, there is a contingent of fans that come and say "it doesn't matter because we haven't won the superbowl." It gets old. We all want it. We all get it. They aren't saying anything we all don't already know. It is just this joyless, wet blanket of an attitude that isn't fun for anyone.

 

2 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Hallelujah. 

 

Soo well said..

 

With that last sentence maybe the most significant, most profound. Joyless. So sad for them. But worse-- that they try so hard to bring others to that dark, nasty place.

 

Thank goodness it is only a very small percentage of 'fans' who are like that.  I cannot imagine not enjoying this current ride and the joy it has brought to me and the overwhelming majority of Bills' fans.

 

 

I agree, Mister Defense!

 

MJS, well said, bro. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Go Bills!

[Cash]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Totally disagree. 

 

I want the Bills to win a Superbowl. It isn't the "only thing that matters" to me as a fan. Enjoying watching them play matters. Enjoying wins matters. The journey matters. It's the climb. 

 

That might not be how fandom is for you.... but I am definitely not lying. It is how fandom is for me.

Thank you. By the “only a Super Bowl matters” logic, none of us should ever watch a regular season game. Or playoff game pre-Super Bowl, for that matter. Just show up for the one game that matters. That would free up a lot of my time, but I don’t think it would enhance my life. 
 

And again - yeah, I very much want the Bills to win a Super Bowl in my lifetime. (Preferably if it’s also in my dad’s lifetime.) But while the end of each season in the Allen era has been rough, the first and the middle parts have been great. Watching these teams week in and week out has been a true joy and an absolute delight. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 5/30/2025 at 9:24 PM, BillsFan619 said:

I get it, we all want a SB title. I even mentioned that I hope this success leads to at least one title.

 

But, why does every good thing they do get negated with “doesn’t mean much, no title”. 

With the examples I’m about to list, please know I’m not saying you’ve said all of these, I’m just giving examples:

-Five straight AFCE titles - “Yeah, but, no titles”

-McD best winning percentage coach in Bills history - “Doesn’t mean much”

-JA NFL MVP - “Yeah, but no ring”

-Highest scoring offense and fewest points allowed defense over five years - “Doesn’t mean anything”

 

I want a title just as much as the next Bills fan, but it doesn’t mean there’s been no good things that have happened and that this team hasn’t had a great run. There’s still things to celebrate.

If everything is based on a title no sports franchise is successful because everyone has way more years without titles than they do with titles.

 

We all want a title, but it’s still been a great five years for the Bills and our fan base.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

Good one, Doc. Thanks for laying down the ground rules! 😃🤣

With all due respect, the franchise has been to four SuperBowls and lost all of them. This group hasn't even made it to a SuperBowl. If you don't understand the psyche of the Bills fan base then you are either too young or are willing to settle. 

This team with Allen has been great and it has been fun to watch. Nobody would trade this run for the drought. 

However almost everyone on this board knows the defense is a fraud. The defense has padded their stats against garbage QBs for years and fails every time in the playoffs. 

I truly hope this year is different or Allen starts to get listed with guys like Fouts who were HOF talents to never play in the SuperBowl. 

Its not just me. Multiple national media people have already stated McDermott has wasted Allen's best years. 

Beane has added lots of new players for the defense. Let's hope that these players make a difference in January not September.

 

[PrimeTime101]

On 5/30/2025 at 9:09 PM, Doc Brown said:

Ground rules the OP forgot. 

 

-Nobody in this thread can respond without issuing the word "playoffs."

-No snarky comments about how we're regular season champions.

[Mikie2times]

16 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

 

@Mikie2times I lost focus of this topic looking at your location.

 

As a Carlsbad native for quite a while I miss it there so bad. 

 

Keep your energy going on this board but take in those beaches & beautiful sunsets too.

 

We're all Bills fans, no matter where we re-located to. 

 

The Bills are infamous, for 4 SB losses and this current spell, no denying it.

 

Just 1 is what will satisfy so many of us. 🤞

It's a pretty amazing location, tons of Bills fans, love it here 😍

[Just in Atlanta]

On 5/30/2025 at 8:28 PM, Brand J said:

Pretty stat, but doesn’t mean much when that team from Mizzou has owned us and been to 5 SBs in less than a decade.

Perhaps we shouldn’t have football threads until we win a Super Bowl.

[Brand J]

59 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Perhaps we shouldn’t have football threads until we win a Super Bowl.

Or perhaps we shouldn’t brag about stats until we have a platform to stand on. Want to brag about individual stats or Josh’s MVP? Awesome, I’m right there with you - especially if it’s a concrete award the player can show off. But to brag about team stats when the team hasn’t accomplished the singular goal every team strives for year after year? It just rings hollow. You can feel differently and brag about these stats all you want, that’s your prerogative. It’s also mine to shrug at such team statistics that haven’t been backed by anything concrete.

[Nihilarian]

16 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

With all due respect, the franchise has been to four SuperBowls and lost all of them. This group hasn't even made it to a SuperBowl. If you don't understand the psyche of the Bills fan base then you are either too young or are willing to settle. 

This team with Allen has been great and it has been fun to watch. Nobody would trade this run for the drought. 

However almost everyone on this board knows the defense is a fraud. The defense has padded their stats against garbage QBs for years and fails every time in the playoffs. 

I truly hope this year is different or Allen starts to get listed with guys like Fouts who were HOF talents to never play in the SuperBowl. 

Its not just me. Multiple national media people have already stated McDermott has wasted Allen's best years. 

Beane has added lots of new players for the defense. Let's hope that these players make a difference in January not September.

 

I look at things differently as I see this regime has the best HC and GM this franchise has ever seen considering the talent. Who were the super stars that McD inherited in 2017? Dion Dawkins was drafted in 2017 by McD and is the only player still with the team from that time. 

 

How many Hall of Fame players were on those late 80's early 90's Buffalo teams that went to four Super Bowls? QB Jim Kelly, RB Thurman Thomas, WR Andre Reed, WR James Lofton, DE Bruce Smith who still leads the NFL with sacks. How many were "all pro"- pro bowlers like 9 time pro bowler Steve Tasker, Henry Jones, Nate Odomes, Cornelius Bennett. Will Wolford, Jim Ritcher, Howard Ballard. 

 

Marv Levy and Bill Polian inherited so much talent and also had so much talent in their scouting staff. John Butler, Norm Pollom and AJ Smith all were amazing.

 

Those 80s-90s Buffalo Bills teams kept Dan Marino out of the SB for a lot of years. They also kept the Chiefs with Joe Montana at QB out, kept John Elway out for awhile. 

 

What really stinks for Bills fans is that KC Chiefs team has been plain and simply the better team over the last five seasons. The only NFL team that has won more games in the entire NFL over Buffalo have been the Chiefs. If the Bills played in the NFC I think they would have made it to the SB a few times already.

 

Now, finally this year should be much more difficult for the Chiefs to win their division with new HC Pete Carroll with the Raiders. Sean Payton with Bo Nix in Denver. Harbaugh with the Chargers as both the Chargers, Broncos were in the playoffs last year. 

 

I'm just hoping that the new wife doesn't wear out our resident alien unicorn for the season. 

[WotAGuy]

From 2010 to 2016, the Bills didn’t make the Super Bowl. 
 

From 2019 to 2024 the Bills didn’t make the Super Bowl. 
 

The 2019-2024 teams have been far superior to watch and enjoy. So, consistent success means something to me. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We just gotta get 1. This era is too great to not be remembered all

time. But if you don’t get one, we are going to be forgotten. Please just win the Super Bowl this year then the context of this 6 year run will all be appreciated forever 

[dayman]

Nobody cares anymore about regular season

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2025 at 9:54 AM, billsbackto81 said:

Our D always tends to pull really good stats,......during the regular season. 

 

 

 

 

And the playoffs too.

 

It's only against the Chiefs during the playoffs we've had consistent problems. Damn it.

7 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

From 2010 to 2016, the Bills didn’t make the Super Bowl. 
 

From 2019 to 2024 the Bills didn’t make the Super Bowl. 
 

The 2019-2024 teams have been far superior to watch and enjoy. So, consistent success means something to me. 

 

 

Oh, my God!  Yes!!!!! This!!!!

 

It's easy to forget. Thanks for the much-needed reminder.

[Thurman#1]

On 6/1/2025 at 1:10 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

With all due respect, the franchise has been to four SuperBowls and lost all of them. This group hasn't even made it to a SuperBowl. If you don't understand the psyche of the Bills fan base then you are either too young or are willing to settle. 

This team with Allen has been great and it has been fun to watch. Nobody would trade this run for the drought. 

However almost everyone on this board knows the defense is a fraud. The defense has padded their stats against garbage QBs for years and fails every time in the playoffs. 

I truly hope this year is different or Allen starts to get listed with guys like Fouts who were HOF talents to never play in the SuperBowl. 

Its not just me. Multiple national media people have already stated McDermott has wasted Allen's best years. 

Beane has added lots of new players for the defense. Let's hope that these players make a difference in January not September.

 

 

 

First, it's not the "psyche of the Bills fan base." It's just not. It's the psyche of a significant portion of them, yes. And it goes something like one of those scenes from the original Star Trek where the actors are all trying to synchronize throwing themselves from side to side on the set as if they're all being battered by huge explosions and Captain Kirk is spitting out, to nobody, his thoughts, "Must ... reach ... the phase shift ... dilithium ... button ... reverse the polarity ... find ... scapegoat ... blame Bills losses ... pitchforks ..."

 

This is one of the most common, basic ways to handle loss and disappointment among human beings. And most of the time it doesn't make sense. It's just the comfortable response.

 

It's not "everyone" who knows the defense is a "fraud." It's mostly a small group of very sad people. Who mistake the inability to stop one sensational offense with the greatest QB since Brady, a guy who's likely to enter the GOAT conversation, with being bad.

 

They certainly weren't good enough last year. But overall, the past four years before that they were damn good.

 

And again, they have actually been damned effective in the playoffs. Except against the Chiefs.

 

You're right, it's not just you. But it's closer to "just you" than it is to "everyone."

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

First, it's not the "psyche of the Bills fan base." It's just not. It's the psyche of a significant portion of them, yes. And it goes something like one of those scenes from the original Star Trek where the actors are all trying to synchronize throwing themselves from side to side on the set as if they're all being battered by huge explosions and Captain Kirk is spitting out, to nobody, his thoughts, "Must ... reach ... the phase shift ... dilithium ... button ... reverse the polarity ... find ... scapegoat ... blame Bills losses ... pitchforks ..."

 

This is one of the most common, basic ways to handle loss and disappointment among human beings. And most of the time it doesn't make sense. It's just the comfortable response.

 

It's not "everyone" who knows the defense is a "fraud." It's mostly a small group of very sad people. Who mistake the inability to stop one sensational offense with the greatest QB since Brady, a guy who's likely to enter the GOAT conversation, with being bad.

 

They certainly weren't good enough last year. But overall, the past four years before that they were damn good.

 

And again, they have actually been damned effective in the playoffs. Except against the Chiefs.

 

You're right, it's not just you. But it's closer to "just you" than it is to "everyone."

 

 

 

Though I had to read that a few times to get your point, a great analogy to start

 

But it's those last lines, that I just bolded, that accurately and factually nail some of the main problems with the bashers--they are simply not basing their ideas on reality, facts, but on  pure emotion only. 

 

That is why their arguments are so consistently, thoroughly ripped apart and undermined when posters decide to push back. 

 

Those realities you point to so well, so accurately, are like mirrors to a vampire-- theyignore and avoid those at all costs.  They cannot overcome them, so they just keep spewing.

 

 

 

 

[eball]

We’re in the midst of the second “golden era” of the modern Bills…if you’re not enjoying it and only worried about SB titles you can go pound sand. 
 

Just my $.02…

 

Edited 4 hours ago by eball