Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Glad you’re not.  I wish more fans had your attitude.

Why are you assuming he will? Obviously we all want it and hope for it but using logic, there’s no reason to believe that he will or that he won’t. To this point, he looks exactly like the guy that the scouting community thought. He doesn’t get open. He’s good with the ball in his hands. He high points well. He has too many contested catch situations. There was nothing surprising in a good or bad way as a rookie. To this point in his football life, that’s the player that he has been (predating the NFL too). We all hope that those strengths become stronger and those weaknesses can be masked. Maybe who he always has been is who he will always be? 

Edited 8 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[BananaB]

He wasn’t very good. Thought they picked him for his hands but they looked as bad as his 40 time last year

[oldmanfan]

34 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why are you assuming he will? Obviously we all want it and hope for it but using logic, there’s no reason to believe that he will or that he won’t. To this point, he looks exactly like the guy that the scouting community thought. He doesn’t get open. He’s good with the ball in his hands. He high points well. He has too many contested catch situations. There was nothing surprising in a good or bad way as a rookie. To this point in his football life, that’s the player that he has been (predating the NFL too). We all hope that those strengths become stronger and those weaknesses can be masked. Maybe who he always has been is who he will always be? 

I’m not.  What I am asking is why assume he won’t?  He played a little over a half of a rookie season.  

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Are you convinced Shakir is better than Ladd?

Im convinced it doesn’t matter.  Shakir is one of the best slot guys in the NFL and every HC would tell you the same. 

 

So what is the point of drafting a 3rd slot WR when we had no one for the outside?  And when you don’t have the luxury of hindsight to make that decision at that moment in the draft either?  
 

Again, if anyone wants to gripe about last year, it should be not trying to trade up for BTJ.   Ladd wasn’t the missed opportunity, that was, and it’s not close.
 

 

[NewEra]

52 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why are you assuming he will? Obviously we all want it and hope for it but using logic, there’s no reason to believe that he will or that he won’t. To this point, he looks exactly like the guy that the scouting community thought. He doesn’t get open. He’s good with the ball in his hands. He high points well. He has too many contested catch situations. There was nothing surprising in a good or bad way as a rookie. To this point in his football life, that’s the player that he has been (predating the NFL too). We all hope that those strengths become stronger and those weaknesses can be masked. Maybe who he always has been is who he will always be? 

I skipped to the last page of this thread- so apologies if I’m ignorant to the conversation in chiming in on.
 

Keon was looking like a playmaker in the nfl prior to his injury.  I was pleasantly pleased with his performance.  I think most of us were.  He looked like dog crap after the injury, so the question mark remains….but I don’t see why we shouldn’t be optimistic based on some of his sample size.  He couldn’t get open in college….but he produced.  He made big plays.  Capable of making big plays in the NFL- regardless of whether or not he’s getting a lot of separation
 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

Take away Ladd McConkey and Keon is right where he belongs as far as stats and his draft position. I expect better next year, close to 1k, but our offense is not built around him so I contain numbers expectation but expect better performance 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I skipped to the last page of this thread- so apologies if I’m ignorant to the conversation in chiming in on.
 

Keon was looking like a playmaker in the nfl prior to his injury.  I was pleasantly pleased with his performance.  I think most of us were.  He looked like dog crap after the injury, so the question mark remains….but I don’t see why we shouldn’t be optimistic based on some of his sample size.  He couldn’t get open in college….but he produced.  He made big plays.  Capable of making big plays in the NFL- regardless of whether or not he’s getting a lot of separation
 

 

👏

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I skipped to the last page of this thread- so apologies if I’m ignorant to the conversation in chiming in on.
 

Keon was looking like a playmaker in the nfl prior to his injury.  I was pleasantly pleased with his performance.  I think most of us were.  He looked like dog crap after the injury, so the question mark remains….but I don’t see why we shouldn’t be optimistic based on some of his sample size.  He couldn’t get open in college….but he produced.  He made big plays.  Capable of making big plays in the NFL- regardless of whether or not he’s getting a lot of separation
 

 

The conversation started with, “we should expect him to improve.” I asked, “why?” We all “hope” that he improves but he largely looked like the exact same guy that he has been (good and bad). We all hope that some of his strengths get stronger and his flaws diminish. We shouldn’t “expect” it. We are “hoping” that happens. He didn’t show anything, good or bad, that was different than what we expected last year. 

47 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m not.  What I am asking is why assume he won’t?  He played a little over a half of a rookie season.  

I’m not assuming that he won’t either. All that I’ve said is that he looked almost exactly as the scouting reports indicated (good and bad). Maybe he is the player that the scouts thought (good and bad)? I’m HOPING that he exceeds it but there hasn’t been any signs, imo, that we should assume he looks different (good or bad).

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 5/16/2025 at 9:05 PM, DJB said:

And for reference here is Ladd who many of us vouched for 

 

 

Coleman needs to step up or Beane massively screwed this one up 

I’m one of the few Coleman believers on this board, but not drafting McConkey was absolutely criminal. 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Are you saying that Metcalf has never dropped a pass??????

 

IMO, if the Bills could have stopped KC on any of their fourth quarter scoring drives, there would have been no need for late game heroics by the Bills offense in either of the last two years.

When you're lacking a premium position player on either side of the ball and have a chance to do it you should or we'll just keep winning our annual Wild Card games.  I don't think our offense had a no punt game or something like that against KC.

[oldmanfan]

24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The conversation started with, “we should expect him to improve.” I asked, “why?” We all “hope” that he improves but he largely looked like the exact same guy that he has been (good and bad). We all hope that some of his strengths get stronger and his flaws diminish. We shouldn’t “expect” it. We are “hoping” that happens. He didn’t show anything, good or bad, that was different than what we expected last year. 

I’m not assuming that he won’t either. All that I’ve said is that he looked almost exactly as the scouting reports indicated (good and bad). Maybe he is the player that the scouts thought (good and bad)? I’m HOPING that he exceeds it but there hasn’t been any signs, imo, that we should assume he looks different (good or bad).

I think we agree.  I’m just saying there are other folks assuming he’ll never work out.  Way too premature for that.

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If either Coleman or Kincaid had been injured and out for the year we wouldn’t have all the crap this entire off-season.  Because people would realize you can’t be critical of a guy who lost a season to injury.  If Josh had gotten hurt and tried to play through it as Kincaid did, and his performance suffered, you bet everyone here would excuse it.

First of all, Kincaid and Coleman are different.  Kincaid's separation stats were elite for a TE.  Brady/Josh was more of a problem than Kincaid.  Kincaid's stats were identical pre and post injury.  Brady, Allen, and him need to get on the same page if they want this offense to truly be elite.

 

Coleman was inconsistent before the injury and reading the tea leaves he didn't work as hard as he should've to recover from the wrist injury.  That's on Coleman.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

First of all, Kincaid and Coleman are different.  Kincaid's separation stats were elite for a TE.  Brady/Josh was more of a problem than Kincaid.  Kincaid's stats were identical pre and post injury.  Brady, Allen, and him need to get on the same page if they want this offense to truly be elite.

 

Coleman was inconsistent before the injury and reading the tea leaves he didn't work as hard as he should've to recover from the wrist injury.  That's on Coleman.

I’ll say this as plainly as I can:

 

Coleman was a rookie.  He missed time last year in addition to being a rookie. He has things to learn.  Like getting back to speed after an injury.  Writing him off after just over half a season is ridiculous.

[NewEra]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The conversation started with, “we should expect him to improve.” I asked, “why?” We all “hope” that he improves but he largely looked like the exact same guy that he has been (good and bad). We all hope that some of his strengths get stronger and his flaws diminish. We shouldn’t “expect” it. We are “hoping” that happens. He didn’t show anything, good or bad, that was different than what we expected last year. 

I’m not assuming that he won’t either. All that I’ve said is that he looked almost exactly as the scouting reports indicated (good and bad). Maybe he is the player that the scouts thought (good and bad)? I’m HOPING that he exceeds it but there hasn’t been any signs, imo, that we should assume he looks different (good or bad).

I believe wholeheartedly that most people believe that the chances are greater that a 22 year old (as he turned 22 today) #33 overall pick improves from year one to year two.  Does that mean he’s definitely going to improve?  Definitely not….there’s definitely a chance they are what they are, but I feel the majority expect these type of players to improve. I do in most cases.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I believe wholeheartedly that most people believe that the chances are greater that a 22 year old (as he turned 22 today) #33 overall pick improves from year one to year two.  Does that mean he’s definitely going to improve?  Definitely not….there’s definitely a chance they are what they are, but I feel the majority expect these type of players to improve. I do in most cases.

For me, I would want to see indicators to suggest that. Someone used the Kincaid example earlier. There was a guy on WGR last week talking about how good his separation numbers were, his YAC and how many off target throws he saw (most of any TE). That is an indicator that it will likely improve. He probably won’t be last in on target throws next year. That should normalize. There wasn’t anything like that with Coleman. I saw the exact guy that I expected. 

[GASabresIUFan]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Dude - McConkey was right there and they chose someone else. If they felt McConkey was just as good of a fit, they'd have taken him. He had Coleman on pretty much every metric, except for size and fit for what we needed.

 

It's funny that you're telling me I "can't make that assumption". Meanwhile, you're assuming that he can be a full time Outside WR - even though his Scouting Report said otherwise. Even though when he got to the league, he was used otherwise. Even when their Outside guys were less than desired. And even after losing one, rather than moving him there, they spent a 2nd Round Pick (a year after spending a 2nd on McConkey) for a True Outside WR and then also brought back Mike Williams as insurance.

 

As for your other point, you haven't seen Shakir catch the ball downfield? I can think of a number of times just off the top of my head. Offensive Scheme plays a large part in that metric as well. We run a scheme in which most of our plays are short to intermediate passing. The long ball isn't Josh's bread and butter. You know who does like that though? Justin Herbert. 

 

There are a number of Slot WR's that have longer average depth of target. That doesn't make them an Outside WR. This idea that you can take a guy that isn't even 50/50 on the Outside and make him a full time WR is the true assumption. One in which Scouts and his Drafting team have thus far not agreed with.

First things first.  The point of this discussion is that Beane drafted the wrong guy.  He did regardless of metrics and internet scouting reports.

 

Unlike the vast majority of people here, I am a UGA season ticket holder and watched every game Ladd played at UGA, most in person.  The kid lined up all over the field, both inside and out and the truth be told, I don't care where he lines up as much as where he catches the ball and you shouldn't care either where he lines up.  For example, lets say Diggs and Ladd lineup on the same side of the field with Ladd inside of Diggs.  They then run a crossing pattern and Ladd catches the ball along the sidelines for 30 yards.  Is that a slot play or a boundary play?  Under your limited definition, that's a slot play because he lined up inside.  I say the opposite. Run the same play and Diggs catches the ball over the middle 15 yards deep. Slot play or boundary play?  Your definition doesn't take into account how modern football is played.  Ladd may have started 65% of his plays in LA inside, but he caught the ball all over the field both inside and out.  

 

Also there was much discussion when Coleman was drafted that he'd be better in the slot.   

 

As to Shakir, his average catch last season was 2.9 yards down field (average catch 10.8 yards - Yac/r of 7.9 = 2.9 yards of AIR) and almost all were over the middle.  He is a true inside possession slot receiver in the Buffalo offense.   Ladd averaged 14 yards per catch with YAC of 4.8.  This means his average catch was 9.2 yards down field.  

[BillsFanForever19]

I seriously can't believe i'm still talking about McConkey. The whole way leading up to the Draft I was saying "he's not an Outside WR, he's not a fit for us". People fought tooth and nail with me to say "he's an Outside WR". Some even saying "wait until we Draft him, i'll have the receipts loaded". 

 

Draft comes and he's on the board. We don't pick him. We pick someone who is a full time Outside WR. As expected. Because we already had Slot WR's and guys who will split time in the Slot and literally nothing else (save for Mack Hollins).

 

The Chargers pick him in the 2nd. Proceed to use him in the Slot for 65% of his snaps. While having almost nothing on the Outside.

 

The Chargers lose Josh Palmer this offseason. Rather than say they're going to switch McConkey to the Outside, they spend a 2nd Round Pick on a WR for the second year in a row to fill the role, after bringing back Mike Williams as their Tre White like insurance with us.

 

Yet still, here we are, with people saying "it's criminal they didn't take McConkey". It's utterly baffling to me.

 

If you need a Boundary CB, you don't take a Nickel. If you need a 1T DT, you don't Draft a 3T DT. If you need a Tackle, you don't Draft a Guard. If you need a Middle Linebacker, you don't Draft an Outside Linebacker. And if you need an Outside WR.... you don't Draft a Slot. McConkey was a WR, but he wasn't the right type of WR. It's as simple as that.  

Edited 5 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[NewEra]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

For me, I would want to see indicators to suggest that. Someone used the Kincaid example earlier. There was a guy on WGR last week talking about how good his separation numbers were, his YAC and how many off target throws he saw (most of any TE). That is an indicator that it will likely improve. He probably won’t be last in on target throws next year. That should normalize. There wasn’t anything like that with Coleman. I saw the exact guy that I expected. 

If he had 3 more catches he would’ve been #2 in the nfl in yards per reception.  Making big plays is what he did in college.  He also made big plays last season.  He posterized a plus tall and lanky corner in woolen. 
 

I expect him to get better.  I think that’s fair to say about many players.  

[Buddy Hix]

12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I seriously can't believe i'm still talking about McConkey. The whole way leading up to the Draft I was saying "he's not an Outside WR, he's not a fit for us". People fought tooth and nail with me to say "he's an Outside WR". Some even saying "wait until we Draft him, i'll have the receipts loaded". 

 

Draft comes and he's on the board. We don't pick him. We pick someone who is a full time Outside WR. As expected. Because we already had Slot WR's and guys who will split time in the Slot and literally nothing else (save for Mack Hollins).

 

The Chargers pick him. Proceed to use him in the Slot for 65% of his snaps. While having almost nothing on the Outside.

 

The Chargers lose Josh Palmer this offseason. Rather than say they're going to switch McConkey to the Outside, they spend a 2nd Round Pick on a WR for the second year in a row (McConkey last year) to fill the role, after bringing back Mike Williams as their Tre White like insurance with us.

 

Yet still, here we are, with people saying "it's criminal they didn't take McConkey". It's utterly baffling to me.

 

If you need a Boundary CB, you don't take a Nickel. If you need a 1T DT, you don't Draft a 3T DT. If you need a Tackle, you don't Draft a Guard. If you need a Middle Linebacker, you don't Draft an Outside Linebacker. And if you need an Outside WR.... you don't Draft a Slot. McConkey was a WR, but he wasn't the right type of WR. It's as simple as that.  

Keon isn’t an outside receiver though…he’s just a jump ball guy with suspect hands lol

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I seriously can't believe i'm still talking about McConkey. The whole way leading up to the Draft I was saying "he's not an Outside WR, he's not a fit for us". People fought tooth and nail with me to say "he's an Outside WR". Some even saying "wait until we Draft him, i'll have the receipts loaded". 

 

Draft comes and he's on the board. We don't pick him. We pick someone who is a full time Outside WR. As expected. Because we already had Slot WR's and guys who will split time in the Slot and literally nothing else (save for Mack Hollins).

 

The Chargers pick him. Proceed to use him in the Slot for 65% of his snaps. While having almost nothing on the Outside.

 

The Chargers lose Josh Palmer this offseason. Rather than say they're going to switch McConkey to the Outside, they spend a 2nd Round Pick on a WR for the second year in a row (McConkey last year) to fill the role, after bringing back Mike Williams as their Tre White like insurance with us.

 

Yet still, here we are, with people saying "it's criminal they didn't take McConkey". It's utterly baffling to me.

 

If you need a Boundary CB, you don't take a Nickel. If you need a 1T DT, you don't Draft a 3T DT. If you need a Tackle, you don't Draft a Guard. If you need a Middle Linebacker, you don't Draft an Outside Linebacker. And if you need an Outside WR.... you don't Draft a Slot. McConkey was a WR, but he wasn't the right type of WR. It's as simple as that.  

His point is- Ladd is not strictly an inside guy.  You disagree. End story.