Elijah Moore Visiting the Bills today (Update: Signed!)

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

And/or press-man across the board and send or simulate pressure relentlessly, especially on passing down-and-distances. Lack of downfield danger/speed lessens the cost of losing a 1:1 battle in the secondary. Could mean a contested catch and tackle rather than a TD. 

Like Baltimore and Houston did to us last  year.

[cas22]

10 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Some fans can't get that concept doc.  You break the cover er 2 shell by running a fast guy at a safety.  Either he follows helping open up the mid area, or he gets burned for a deep ball.

 

I guess some don't think DC's will wise up and take away the underneath/ mid area of the field for some reason.

you guys make out that the other WRs are slow, it doesn't take the fastest guy in the league to be able to go deep to clear out a under neath route, plus Moore is a possession WR, he is the same player as Samuel. 

[SoCal Deek]

10 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Some fans can't get that concept doc.  You break the cover er 2 shell by running a fast guy at a safety.  Either he follows helping open up the mid area, or he gets burned for a deep ball.

 

I guess some don't think DC's will wise up and take away the underneath/ mid area of the field for some reason.

That’s true but it doesn’t mean that the safety allows a slightly slower WR to just run right by him. We’re talking fractions of a second on 40 yard times here. It’s as much about route construction and play design as it is about pure speed. 

[cas22]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true but it doesn’t mean that the safety allows a slightly slower WR to just run right by him. We’re talking fractions of a second on 40 yard times here. It’s as much about route construction and play design as it is about pure speed. 

BINGO,,,, you don't have to be super fast to get open on a deep route, Palmer has gotten open plenty of times on deep routes, Moore avg ypc was 8.8 vs Palmers 15.0 ypc average.. doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who catch's more deep balls. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, cas22 said:

BINGO,,,, you don't have to be super fast to get open on a deep route, Palmer has gotten open plenty of times on deep routes, Moore avg ypc was 8.8 vs Palmers 15.0 ypc average.. doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who catch's more deep balls. 

Thanks! Also true…and my point is it doesn’t even matter if he gets ‘open’. Thinking that the safety just sits on the underneath stuff because the WR isn’t quite so fast is plain foolish. A good OC designs the route tree to clear out for the underneath crossing routes no matter how fast the outside WR is. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 5/1/2025 at 10:42 AM, Shaw66 said:

Meaning no disrespect, I think you're misperceiving, more or less completely, what signing Moore is about.  The Bills signed him to be part of their receiver-by-committee approach. They don't expect him to be a 1000-yard receiver - if that happens, great, but that's not what they signed him for.  They signed him to play maybe 30-40% of the wide receiver snaps, get maybe 500-600 yards - just like the receivers did last year. 

 

The way we all used to think about receivers is that the team had three wideouts - like, for example, Diggs and Davis and a slot guy, and the other guys were backups who played only when the Bills went four-wide or when someone got injured.  That isn't how they play any longer.  Now, they want to have, essentially, five starting wide-outs, all of whom play, and all of whom can play pretty much any of the wideout positions. The Bills put them on the field in all kinds of different combinations and different formations. It all changes from play to play. They challenge the defense to get the right personnel on the field, play after play, to match the Bills personnel, and even then the defense doesn't know what positions those receivers will be playing. It's almost impossible to adjust the defensive personnel to be ready for everything and to get the defensive matchups they want everywhere. 

 

So, there's a lot of reason to be excited about Moore, because he certainly could be exactly what the Bills expect - an upgrade to the total talent on the wider receiver committee. I'm excited, because every player who makes the committee better makes the Bills better. If he turns out to be Valdez-Scantling and gets cut, okay, but that's always a risk.

 

He's a good candidate to improve the committee. How do I know that? He was a second-round pick, which means he has the athletic skill set to be a threat on the field.  So, I'm excited. 

 

They aren't expecting the equivalent of Jerry Hughes. I'm not sure why you didn't think the Bills would get production from him - he was a first-round draft pick who didn't fit the Bears' scheme.  I was hoping he'd be a solid player for the Bills when they got him.  But Hughes is irrelevant in the discussion of Moore, because the Bills don't particularly need Moore to be anything like the equivalent of what Hughes became. 

 

 

 

I'd say if that happened it likely signals that Kincaid, shakir, or both missed significant time imo.  

[oldmanfan]

44 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks! Also true…and my point is it doesn’t even matter if he gets ‘open’. Thinking that the safety just sits on the underneath stuff because the WR isn’t quite so fast is plain foolish. A good OC designs the route tree to clear out for the underneath crossing routes no matter how fast the outside WR is. 

If you do the math I think the difference over 40 yards between a guy that runs a 4.2 vs a 4.4 40 is a little more than a yard.  

[Shaw66]

29 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I'd say if that happened it likely signals that Kincaid, shakir, or both missed significant time imo.  

Well, maybe, but I think the Bills' approach is much more open-ended than that. I really think that from week to week and month to month they want to be looking at what works and what teams are doing against them and then running route schemes and players that they think will work best. To do that, they're trying to match the talents of their players with the schemes. 

 

Moore is a talented guy, and in the right circumstances, he could be a 1000-yard guy in a given season, even with Shakir and Kincaid on the field. 

 

I've really come around to thinking that each position group is operated with one of two philosophies:  One philosophy is the fixed-starter philosophy - name the starters and absent injuries, those starters player every down. In that philosophy, the Bills value team play and coordination.  The defensive backfield and the offensive line operate on that philosophy.  The Bills want the same guys on the field every down (except for sub-packages in the defensive backfield). 

 

The other philosophy values mix-and-match opportunities and versatility. The defensive line, the receivers, and the running backs operate on that philosophy.  From game to game and play to play, with those groups the Bills put the players on the field who often them the opportunity to do what they want to do in that situation. They want to be as multiple as possible, because they get an advantage by the forcing the opponent to adjust to what the Bills happen to bringing. 

 

If what the Bills have done to the defensive line works, for example, the Bills will be driving offenses nuts, because the Bills will be showing a big variety of players, and looks and styles, on the defensive line. If it works, a lot of guys will be able to get to the QB, a lot of guys will have the mobility the Bills want to manage run gaps.  

 

Bringing it back to Moore, I think the Bills are thinking that a guy with experience in the league and sub 3.4 speed could, in the right circumstances, pile up a lot of yards.  For example, suppose that the Bills' running game takes another step forward this season and forces defenses to drop the extra man into the box.  In that case, maybe Moore starts getting open down field more regularly. 

 

It all will depend on whose number Joe Brady calls. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

^ I wish Moore had sub 3.4 speed!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, maybe, but I think the Bills' approach is much more open-ended than that. I really think that from week to week and month to month they want to be looking at what works and what teams are doing against them and then running route schemes and players that they think will work best. To do that, they're trying to match the talents of their players with the schemes. 

 

Moore is a talented guy, and in the right circumstances, he could be a 1000-yard guy in a given season, even with Shakir and Kincaid on the field. 

 

I've really come around to thinking that each position group is operated with one of two philosophies:  One philosophy is the fixed-starter philosophy - name the starters and absent injuries, those starters player every down. In that philosophy, the Bills value team play and coordination.  The defensive backfield and the offensive line operate on that philosophy.  The Bills want the same guys on the field every down (except for sub-packages in the defensive backfield). 

 

The other philosophy values mix-and-match opportunities and versatility. The defensive line, the receivers, and the running backs operate on that philosophy.  From game to game and play to play, with those groups the Bills put the players on the field who often them the opportunity to do what they want to do in that situation. They want to be as multiple as possible, because they get an advantage by the forcing the opponent to adjust to what the Bills happen to bringing. 

 

If what the Bills have done to the defensive line works, for example, the Bills will be driving offenses nuts, because the Bills will be showing a big variety of players, and looks and styles, on the defensive line. If it works, a lot of guys will be able to get to the QB, a lot of guys will have the mobility the Bills want to manage run gaps.  

 

Bringing it back to Moore, I think the Bills are thinking that a guy with experience in the league and sub 3.4 speed could, in the right circumstances, pile up a lot of yards.  For example, suppose that the Bills' running game takes another step forward this season and forces defenses to drop the extra man into the box.  In that case, maybe Moore starts getting open down field more regularly. 

 

It all will depend on whose number Joe Brady calls. 

 

I just don't think he'd get the snaps and targets necessary to get 1000 yards without injuries to other players who will be getting slot target opportunities.  An injury to palmer for example boosts everyones snaps, but i'd still assume they give more of those snaps to samuel, shakir, and kincaid.  

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I just don't think he'd get the snaps and targets necessary to get 1000 yards without injuries to other players who will be getting slot target opportunities.  An injury to palmer for example boosts everyones snaps, but i'd still assume they give more of those snaps to samuel, shakir, and kincaid.  

That may be true, and if you asked the coaches today, they might tell you exactly that today.  However, I think the coaches would tell you also that it's a competition, a daily competition, and that Moore has the talent to take playing time from any one of them, depending on circumstances in October.

 

In other words, you're giving me the depth chart today. I think the Bills' philosophy, both with the receiver room and the defensive line rooms, is that the depth chart today doesn't necessarily control the number of snaps players will get when the season rolls around. Snap counts are determined week to week.