James Cook absent from OTA's

[RochesterLifer]

56 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Cook is absolutely needed. He is the 2nd best player on the Bills offense. He isn't elite like Barkley or Henry, but he is very good. He helps take a lot of pressure off of Allen.

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

Edited 8 hours ago by RochesterLifer

[Mister Defense]

1 minute ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

 

I am pretty sure many/most mean he is the 2nd best skill player on the offense, weapon, and likely on the team.  I agree with that, and that he is not easily replaceable, which is clearly the opposite of so many who are indicating we should 'let him walk'.

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The fan base is the creator of all the drama. If the fan base is tired of drama, it should stop manufacturing drama.

I'm not saying you're wrong here. All I will say is Cook made things public using his socials. He brought it to the fans and the public in general. I think it natural that fans would react, and given the platform (social media) the reactions are often super dramatic and carried on (which is to your point) I believe. 

[Gregg]

5 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

 

True the Bills OL is also very good. I meant 2nd best player on offense at the skill positions.

[klos63]

13 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

Isn't that true for any player that we want?

[RochesterLifer]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

Isn't that true for any player that we want?

Yes, exactly. $15m a year for a two-down RB is not manageable.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

The bills do need cook to win.  

 

He won't get the 15 million he asked for but why does he get so much hate and ignorance for asking for it.  He is worth a lot.  He is a fantastic weapon.

 

He accounted for 19 touchdowns last year and helped set up a bunch more he didn't get to touch the ball on and punch it in.  

 

Cook rushed for 272 yards in the playoffs, 15 runs were for first downs and he scored 3 td's one which was in incredible play vs KC.  Important to note they played three of the best defenses in the league in the playoffs in Denver, Baltimore and KC. 

 

People acting like he is some bum who can be replaced by anybody in the 6th round will be the first ones to complain when he is gone the big plays from the running game go bye bye.

 

 

 

Cook is a tough prospect for armchair GMs, because he's clearly a tier below the truly elite guys, which last year was Barkley & Henry, but he's also good enough that he's very hard to replace.  Contrast that with Singletary, who was (and is) a good NFL RB, but ultimately doesn't give you much more than a guy off the street.

 

A lot of those runs where Cook got into the secondary untouched weren't just due to the O-line.  It was also Cook using his vision to pick the right hole, then using his elite acceleration to burst through before the defense could get there.  We've seen a ton of outside runs the last couple years where Cook just turned on the jets and was able to turn the corner on the edge defender.  They didn't all go for long runs, but every one of those was a significant swing for the Bills.  Turning a potential -1 to 1 yard play into a 7 yard play makes a big difference, especially when it keeps going our way over and over.

 

In summary, I would love to have Cook back beyond this year.  I'm also weary of paying money to any RB, and extra weary of paying Cook elite money when he's been a step shy of elite.  I'm hoping that he balls out this year, and either we re-sign him longterm, or we get some real compensation for him in like a tag-and-trade scenario.  (By which I mean something better than a 3rd-round comp pick in 2027.)

[klos63]

23 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Yes, exactly. $15m a year for a two-down RB is not manageable.

How about for a 16 TD RB, who added 2 more in the playoffs.

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

 

I agree Dion is the 2nd best player on our offense. It is then Cook or Spencer Brown for 3rd. McGovern is the next tier below. 

 

But there remains a sizeable gap IMO between Cook and our other backs. 

[DrDawkinstein]

33 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

 

Seems like half the threads on this board are dedicated to finding Josh more weapons, supporting Josh by giving him more weapons, etc. 

 

But then everyone wants to let our best Offensive weapon (after Josh) walk over a few million dollars a year.

 

He's our 2nd best weapon after only Josh.

[klos63]

29 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Yes, exactly. $15m a year for a two-down RB is not manageable.

It seems that often,  fans forget that a $15 million contract won't be 15 mill against the cap for at least a couple years,  it's more likely the first year will be half of that,  then the cap continues to rise significantly each year. 

This is a very workable deal,  if Beane wants to. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

45 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

This false statement is getting repeated far too often. Cook is somewhere between the 3rd and 5th best player on the Bills offense, factoring in our offensive linemen.

In my opinion, Josh is (no surprise) #1. Dion Dawkins is #2. From there, it is very debatable, with Spencer Brown and Connor McGovern in play.

 

The "pay Cook" and "2nd best on offense" mantra is a Fantasy football and Madden mentality. He is very good, and I hope we keep him at a manageable cap hit. However, our offensive line is, collectively, the 2nd most valuable component of our offense, allowing us to win with Davis and Johnson at RB. 

 

Also keeps allen healthy (ish... his playing style tends to lead to hits)

[SoonerBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, klos63 said:

How about for a 16 TD RB, who added 2 more in the playoffs.

How about a guy who had 4 total regular season rushing TD's in his career until we got the line straightened out?

Edited 7 hours ago by SoonerBillsFan

[klos63]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

How about a guy who had 4 total regular season rushing TD's in his career until we got the line straightened out?

I'm OK with signing that guy.  Are you seriously going to ignore last season?

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

How about a guy who had 4 total regular season rushing TD's until we got the line straightened out?

 

Josh was at the top in turnovers until we got the line figured out. Probably shouldnt have paid him either since its all the OL. Just pay the OL, everyone else is replaceable apparently.

 

The OL didnt develop Cooks ability to run through tackles and even run OVER tacklers like he did last year. HE developed that ability.

The OL didnt develop Cooks vision and patience to find holes where there arent any.

The OL didnt develop Cooks speed and ability to take it to the house.

 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by DrDawkinstein

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

How about a guy who had 4 total regular season rushing TD's in his career until we got the line straightened out?

Many of those TDs came close to the goal line as well. Scores that Allen would typically have run in himself. Cook benefitted to some extent from Allen having a broken hand week 1 and the Bills running down close with Cook to prevent Josh from further injury to his hand IMO. 

 

I don't see Cook coming anywhere close to duplicating his TD total from last year 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

Many of those TDs came close to the goal line as well. Scores that Allen would typically have run in himself. Cook benefitted to some extent from Allen having a broken hand week 1 and the Bills running down close with Cook to prevent Josh from further injury to his hand IMO. 

 

I don't see Cook coming anywhere close to duplicating his TD total from last year 

 

Isnt that a good thing? We arent risking Josh's health anymore because we finally have a decent run game and a good running back who CAN score.

 

Josh needs more weapons! (But let Cook walk)

Josh risks his health running so much! (But let Cook walk)

 

[klos63]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Many of those TDs came close to the goal line as well. Scores that Allen would typically have run in himself. Cook benefitted to some extent from Allen having a broken hand week 1 and the Bills running down close with Cook to prevent Josh from further injury to his hand IMO. 

 

I don't see Cook coming anywhere close to duplicating his TD total from last year 

Your going to discount the value of his touchdowns scored?

Scoring from the red zone is critical,  he should be lauded for that.  

How about the 4th down td in the championship game... no big deal?

Cook also broke many big runs too, 60+ yards td, a few 40+ yarders.

He had a tremendous season,  worthy of a 2nd round pick and the Bills should do everytime everything in their power to sign him.  If they don't,  they should not waste a 2nd round pick on a player they don't want to extend,  the pick is too valuable. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I'm OK with signing that guy.  Are you seriously going to ignore last season?

Yes.  15 million is insane, he isn't worth it. 

10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Josh was at the top in turnovers until we got the line figured out. Probably shouldnt have paid him either since its all the OL. Just pay the OL, everyone else is replaceable apparently.

 

The OL didnt develop Cooks ability to run through tackles and even run OVER tacklers like he did last year. HE developed that ability.

The OL didnt develop Cooks vision and patience to find holes where there arent any.

The OL didnt develop Cooks speed and ability to take it to the house.

 

 

 

He isn't worth 15 million per year, period.

[balln]

This isn’t Shaun Alexander from sea who had a bazillion td short yardage.

 

cook is explosive. Super explosive 

 

both in pass and as a runner 

 

SF td in the snow!? 
 

lions td where they pulled his hair 

 

id pay him bw 12-15. Knox makes too much $ for what he provides. And beane mismanaged building young depth at DL and WR the last two drafts (not this year). Instead of having to pay 10+ million on part time players on DL could save and sign our young home grown playmaker