Ben Johnson?? Ben Johnson?? LOL

[BringBackFergy]

Having 5 or 6 top 10 first round picks over the last four years certainly helps (as opposed to picking at #27-30 every year)

[2003Contenders]

6 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Having 5 or 6 top 10 first round picks over the last four years certainly helps (as opposed to picking at #27-30 every year)

Bingo!

 

And let's see what kind of noise these teams (Bears and Pats) make in the playoffs and what their staying power looks like now that they have achieved some success and start playing 1st place schedules and picking later in the draft. 

 

Let's not forget that McD himself led the Bills out of the forest of 17 straight years without a playoff appearance and into a world in which they have now made it to the playoffs 7 out of the last 8 years. The knock on McD (which I agree with somewhat) is that he may have taken the Bills about as far as he ever will with an AFC Championship showing and that new leadership may be required to take us to the next level.

 

At 7-4 the  playoffs are still very much in sight, but 2025 has been a very trying year in terms of having to battle injuries and a rather sudden and profound regression to the mean in terms of turnover differential and other statistical categories for which the Bills had dominated the last few seasons. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Real McClappy said:

Didn't read all the pages but the thread just bumps how much good coaching matters in the league.  Johnson and Vrabel have done a complete 180 flip with their teams this season. 

 

So did McD. None of them have a SB ring yet, so that all important box for some people has yet to be checked. We got good, we have yet to have things line up properly. Part of it is just dumb luck with injuries, schedules, ill-timed errors, bad calls, etc. 

 

I expected Vrabel to be solid, and I was eager to see Johnson to assume the HC role. Some coordinators are just not cut out to be the top guy, while others thrive. 

[Walking Tall]

On 12/15/2024 at 8:37 PM, Walking Tall said:

Joe Brady has passed him by IMO.

What a stupid take.

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Having 5 or 6 top 10 first round picks over the last four years certainly helps (as opposed to picking at #27-30 every year)

Yeah, it’s super easy to drag a bottom feeding franchise into winning ways because you have all those high picks.

[QCity]

I know the Bears are going nowhere, but I had to call Fergy out. He messed with Big Baller Ben and now I think there's a few people around here upset with our current coaching staff. Maybe just a few I don't read a lot.

[Kirby Jackson]

Ben Johnson is an elite coach. He and Mike Vrabel will battle it out for COY. They deserve it. That franchise was a disaster and now they’re leading their division. The same goes for the Pats. They both have elite coaches and QBs that look like they can play. 
 

Both of those coaches would have been clear upgrades for the Bills. The Bills coaching is okay. It’s not bad. It’s not great. These guys are doing a great job. It’s the equivalent of having Baker as your QB instead of Josh. He’s fine but there is better. Both Johnson and Vrabel are better. 

[LarryMadman]

45 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So did McD. None of them have a SB ring yet, so that all important box for some people has yet to be checked. We got good, we have yet to have things line up properly. Part of it is just dumb luck with injuries, schedules, ill-timed errors, bad calls, etc. 

 

I expected Vrabel to be solid, and I was eager to see Johnson to assume the HC role. Some coordinators are just not cut out to be the top guy, while others thrive. 

LOL, 9-7, 8-8 7-9 the Bills were before McD took over and went 9-7 his first year, then 6-10 his second year, Daboll developed Josh Allen and the Bills got good, coincidence? Now McD takes the ball out of his stars hands and we are seeing the rest of the team he has built is terrible.

 

Pats were 8-9, 4-13, 4-13 and Vrable has them at 10-2 and #1 seed in confrence

 

Bears were 3-14, 7-10, 5-12 and Johnson know has them tied for second best record in the NFC and leading their division at 8-3

 

These guys are so much better than McDermott is and its not even close, they turned around garbage McD inherited a borderline playoff.

[NoSaint]

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Ben Johnson is an elite coach. He and Mike Vrabel will battle it out for COY. They deserve it. That franchise was a disaster and now they’re leading their division. The same goes for the Pats. They both have elite coaches and QBs that look like they can play. 
 

Both of those coaches would have been clear upgrades for the Bills. The Bills coaching is okay. It’s not bad. It’s not great. These guys are doing a great job. It’s the equivalent of having Baker as your QB instead of Josh. He’s fine but there is better. Both Johnson and Vrabel are better. 

and I’ll keep adding… the risk of making the move is also pretty minor.
 

Odds are even a miss is a relatively middle of the pack guy with little drop off. 

[T.E.]

Ben Johnson held out an extra year or two for the Bills job, and they were like "No, we're busy banging our head into the same brick wall."

[gonzo1105]

I’ll wait until year two before passing judgement. Obviously Vrabel and Ben Johnson have done good jobs there. Look at that Bears schedule though. They have beaten absolutely no one. I realize you can only play the teams on your schedule but beating the 

 

Cowboys

Raiders

Commanders

Saints

Bengals(w/Flacco) 

Giants

Vikings(w/Wentz)

Steelers(w/Rudolph) 

 

They have beaten 3 backup QB, the Cowboys early in the season with their awful defense. They remind me of the Commanders last season. I want to see them against a tougher schedule next year 

[Andrew Son]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Yeah, it’s super easy to drag a bottom feeding franchise into winning ways because you have all those high picks.

That's why there's also so much turnover in winning franchises!

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Ben Johnson held out an extra year or two for the Bills job, and they were like "No, we're busy banging our head into the same brick wall."

Christ, could you imagine Allen with Johnson as HC?  Whew!

[zow2]

As I posted in another thread.  We knew he was a very good O coordinator but Ben Johnson is way better as a HC than i thought he'd be.  The Bears leading the NFC North after 12 weeks over Det and GB, is a big accomplishment. 

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Yeah, it’s super easy to drag a bottom feeding franchise into winning ways because you have all those high picks.

 

Yeah, tell that to the Sabres.  As we all know, there is so much more to turning a losing franchise around in any pro sport.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

Having 5 or 6 top 10 first round picks over the last four years certainly helps (as opposed to picking at #27-30 every year)

 

Bears have had 3 in 4 years, QB (#1), OL (#10), TE (#10).

[Kirby Jackson]

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

and I’ll keep adding… the risk of making the move is also pretty minor.
 

Odds are even a miss is a relatively middle of the pack guy with little drop off. 

That’s what people are missing the most. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some can shake the drought mentality. Assuming Josh Allen is upright, what is the floor for this team? Honestly, they are probably going to finish below what I thought the floor was. That speaks to the job this regime is doing. With Josh Allen, and playing in the AFCE, you’re probably looking at 11 wins minimum. That’s what they’ve done for the last 5 years or whatever. That’s not BECAUSE McDermott & co. are here. It’s BECAUSE Josh Allen is one of the best players in the world at the most important position in sports. 
 

I’ve said for the last few years that you could find pretty much any quality coach in the NCAA or NFL and get results comparable to what they’ve gotten. There are literally hundreds of coaches that could have won some AFCE titles and a playoff game or 2 in this era. Sure, maybe Mike McDaniel or Robert Salah would have a year where they win 12 instead of 13 but the Bills aren’t going to be a 7 win team with a change (assuming Josh is healthy).

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bears have had 3 in 4 years, QB (#1), OL (#10), TE (#10).

Odunze as well

[Augie]

31 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

LOL, 9-7, 8-8 7-9 the Bills were before McD took over and went 9-7 his first year, then 6-10 his second year, Daboll developed Josh Allen and the Bills got good, coincidence? Now McD takes the ball out of his stars hands and we are seeing the rest of the team he has built is terrible.

 

Pats were 8-9, 4-13, 4-13 and Vrable has them at 10-2 and #1 seed in confrence

 

Bears were 3-14, 7-10, 5-12 and Johnson know has them tied for second best record in the NFC and leading their division at 8-3

 

These guys are so much better than McDermott is and its not even close, they turned around garbage McD inherited a borderline playoff.

 

And then the Bills had the 2nd best winning percentage in North American professional sports over a period of years, behind only the Chiefs. Let’s not ignore history just to try to prove your point.

 

Beside, I’m told by people here that it means nothing without a SB win as HC. 

 

I know McD is far from perfect (for example, I wish he would hire guys smarter than him as coordinators rather than clear underlings), but some people here get so caught up in emotion that they often fail to see the big picture. It’s not personal, so I try not to get emotional. Might they be better HC’s in the long run? That wouldn’t shock me, but a dozen weeks of football is too soon to crown anyone.