Coleman Route Speeds

[JohnBonhamRocks]

6 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

yea, well use whatever fancy numbers you want! 40 yard dash time is clearly directly related to NFL success. I mean, here, look at the top 40 yard dash time in history:

 

John Ross (2017) — 4.22 seconds
Henry Ruggs III (2020) — 4.27
Marquise Goodwin (2013) — 4.27
Tyquan Thornton (2022) — 4.28
J.J. Nelson (2015) — 4.28
Jacoby Ford (2010) — 4.28
Darrius Heyward-Bey (2009) — 4.30
Velus Jones Jr. (2022) — 4.31
Parris Campbell (2019) — 4.31
Andy Isabella (2019) — 4.31
Curtis Samuel (2017) — 4.31
Calvin Austin III (2022) — 4.32
Will Fuller (2016) — 4.32
Trey Palmer (2023) — 4.33
Danny Gray (2022) — 4.33
Mecole Hardman (2019) — 4.33
DK Metcalf (2019) — 4.33
Phillip Dorsett (2015) — 4.33
Brandin Cooks (2014) — 4.33
Mike Wallace (2009) — 4.33
Bo Melton (2022) — 4.34
DJ Chark (2018) — 4.34
John Brown (2014) — 4.34
Tavon Austin (2013) — 4.34
Ryan Swope (2013) — 4.34

 

Obviously, a who's who of the hall of fame. Now take a look at some guys on the lower end of the times:

 

Jerry Rice 4.45 (4.7)
Sterling Sharpe 4.44
Devante Adams 4.56
Wayne Chrebet 4.53
Lynn Swann 4.5
Dez Bryant 4.52
Al Toon 4.65
Antonio Brown 4.56
Cooper Kupp 4.62
Chris Carter 4.63
Larry Fitzgerald 4.63
Terell Owens 4.45
Steve Largent 4.70
Mike Evans 4.53
Brandon Marshall 4.52
Hinez Ward 4.55
Brandon Lloyd 4.65
Kennan Allen 4.7
Chad Johnson 4.57
DeAndre Hopkins 4.57
Jarvis Landry 4.77
Allen Robinson 4.6
Laveranues Coles 4.48
CeeDee Lamb 4.5
Kelvin Benjamin 4.61
Anquan Boldin 4.71
Deebo Samuel 4.48
Brandon Aiyuk 4.5
Reggie Wayne 4.5
Plaxico Burress 4.59

 

I think everyone owes @KDIGGZ an apology before he hurts himself twisting himself into knots saying he wasn't equating 40 yard dash time to NFL success. Goalposts are very heavy and difficult to move.

 

 

Interestingly, two of those fastest 40 guys are currently on our roster with one projected to start, one of them recently started for us, and two remain FAs today. 

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

yea, well use whatever fancy numbers you want! 40 yard dash time is clearly directly related to NFL success. I mean, here, look at the top 40 yard dash time in history:

 

John Ross (2017) — 4.22 seconds
Henry Ruggs III (2020) — 4.27
Marquise Goodwin (2013) — 4.27
Tyquan Thornton (2022) — 4.28
J.J. Nelson (2015) — 4.28
Jacoby Ford (2010) — 4.28
Darrius Heyward-Bey (2009) — 4.30
Velus Jones Jr. (2022) — 4.31
Parris Campbell (2019) — 4.31
Andy Isabella (2019) — 4.31
Curtis Samuel (2017) — 4.31
Calvin Austin III (2022) — 4.32
Will Fuller (2016) — 4.32
Trey Palmer (2023) — 4.33
Danny Gray (2022) — 4.33
Mecole Hardman (2019) — 4.33
DK Metcalf (2019) — 4.33
Phillip Dorsett (2015) — 4.33
Brandin Cooks (2014) — 4.33
Mike Wallace (2009) — 4.33
Bo Melton (2022) — 4.34
DJ Chark (2018) — 4.34
John Brown (2014) — 4.34
Tavon Austin (2013) — 4.34
Ryan Swope (2013) — 4.34

 

Obviously, a who's who of the hall of fame. Now take a look at some guys on the lower end of the times:

 

Jerry Rice 4.45 (4.7)
Sterling Sharpe 4.44
Devante Adams 4.56
Wayne Chrebet 4.53
Lynn Swann 4.5
Dez Bryant 4.52
Al Toon 4.65
Antonio Brown 4.56
Cooper Kupp 4.62
Chris Carter 4.63
Larry Fitzgerald 4.63
Terell Owens 4.45
Steve Largent 4.70
Mike Evans 4.53
Brandon Marshall 4.52
Hinez Ward 4.55
Brandon Lloyd 4.65
Kennan Allen 4.7
Chad Johnson 4.57
DeAndre Hopkins 4.57
Jarvis Landry 4.77
Allen Robinson 4.6
Laveranues Coles 4.48
CeeDee Lamb 4.5
Kelvin Benjamin 4.61
Anquan Boldin 4.71
Deebo Samuel 4.48
Brandon Aiyuk 4.5
Reggie Wayne 4.5
Plaxico Burress 4.59

 

I think everyone owes @KDIGGZ an apology before he hurts himself twisting himself into knots saying he wasn't equating 40 yard dash time to NFL success. Goalposts are very heavy and difficult to move.

 

 

Please show me a post where I said anything about 40 yard dash is key to success. I didn't even say I didn't like the pick. The guy is slow. He can hopefully figure it out and make due. Simple as that. You can post he had the fastest ever time running to the bathroom at the combine, that doesn't change his speed or his game tape.

[davspo]

I must say that I initially did not like this pick.  I had watched some YouTube film on him and didn't see him as being able to separate, which to me is that top skill a receiver needs.  Josh is not the best at ball placement, so separation is even more important.  I have watched every combine over the last 10 years.  Cooper Kupp was by far the best gauntlet runner I've ever seen and he worked out pretty well.  I went back and looked at Coleman's two gauntlet runs and they were very impressive.  I then watched a bit more film and saw more separation then was displayed in the original film I watched.  I also saw him run receiver screens very efficiently, something that the Bill currently lack.  Bottom line is he's young dude with all the measurements and more skills that translate to football going his way than a 40 time.  Time will tell, but I think Bean and company have earned the benefit of the doubt.  If you look at the starters on this current rooster, all but 5 are draft picks and they have the second highest win rate in the NFL over the last 2 years.  You can be pissed, but they are getting results.  

[MarlinTheMagician]

3 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Interestingly, two of those fastest 40 guys are currently on our roster with one projected to start, one of them recently started for us, and two remain FAs today. 

Exactly.  See my immediately prior post.  Samuel is juxtaposed with Coleman in our scheme.  We have a true speedster there, and Shakir is a 4.4 player.  Adding Coleman allows us to not be bullied by press corners in the playoffs (something that consistently happened to Diggs).  As corners get smaller to keep up with the speed of guys like Worthy, Coleman becomes more valuable -- in general and to us in particular.  We didn't have that big, physical wideout before.

1 minute ago, davspo said:

I must say that I initially did not like this pick.  I had watched some YouTube film on him and didn't see him as being able to separate, which to me is that top skill a receiver needs.  Josh is not the best at ball placement, so separation is even more important.  I have watched every combine over the last 10 years.  Cooper Kupp was by far the best gauntlet runner I've ever seen and he worked out pretty well.  I went back and looked at Coleman's two gauntlet runs and they were very impressive.  I then watched a bit more film and saw more separation then was displayed in the original film I watched.  I also saw him run receiver screens very efficiently, something that the Bill currently lack.  Bottom line is he's young dude with all the measurements and more skills that translate to football going his way than a 40 time.  Time will tell, but I think Bean and company have earned the benefit of the doubt.  If you look at the starters on this current rooster, all but 5 are draft picks and they have the second highest win rate in the NFL over the last 2 years.  You can be pissed, but they are getting results.  

Same here, I was so bummed when we took Coleman.  A cooling off period and rational examination of facts and video has made me more than happy to give the young man a chance with an open mind and a hopeful heart!  Go Keon!

[bills742]

Other than Nacua, I'm curious what history says about gauntlet speed and NFL success.

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, bills742 said:

Other than Nacua, I'm curious what history says about gauntlet speed and NFL success.

Cooper Kupp

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

Correction of my self - THE fastest gauntlet time in two years.  Second fastest go route.  No one jogs in the gauntlet - speed is a core point of the drill.

[PayDaBill$]

23 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

yea, well use whatever fancy numbers you want! 40 yard dash time is clearly directly related to NFL success. I mean, here, look at the top 40 yard dash time in history:

 

John Ross (2017) — 4.22 seconds
Henry Ruggs III (2020) — 4.27
Marquise Goodwin (2013) — 4.27
Tyquan Thornton (2022) — 4.28
J.J. Nelson (2015) — 4.28
Jacoby Ford (2010) — 4.28
Darrius Heyward-Bey (2009) — 4.30
Velus Jones Jr. (2022) — 4.31
Parris Campbell (2019) — 4.31
Andy Isabella (2019) — 4.31
Curtis Samuel (2017) — 4.31
Calvin Austin III (2022) — 4.32
Will Fuller (2016) — 4.32
Trey Palmer (2023) — 4.33
Danny Gray (2022) — 4.33
Mecole Hardman (2019) — 4.33
DK Metcalf (2019) — 4.33
Phillip Dorsett (2015) — 4.33
Brandin Cooks (2014) — 4.33
Mike Wallace (2009) — 4.33
Bo Melton (2022) — 4.34
DJ Chark (2018) — 4.34
John Brown (2014) — 4.34
Tavon Austin (2013) — 4.34
Ryan Swope (2013) — 4.34

 

Obviously, a who's who of the hall of fame. Now take a look at some guys on the lower end of the times:

 

Jerry Rice 4.45 (4.7)
Sterling Sharpe 4.44
Devante Adams 4.56
Wayne Chrebet 4.53
Lynn Swann 4.5
Dez Bryant 4.52
Al Toon 4.65
Antonio Brown 4.56
Cooper Kupp 4.62
Chris Carter 4.63
Larry Fitzgerald 4.63
Terell Owens 4.45
Steve Largent 4.70
Mike Evans 4.53
Brandon Marshall 4.52
Hinez Ward 4.55
Brandon Lloyd 4.65
Kennan Allen 4.7
Chad Johnson 4.57
DeAndre Hopkins 4.57
Jarvis Landry 4.77
Allen Robinson 4.6
Laveranues Coles 4.48
CeeDee Lamb 4.5
Kelvin Benjamin 4.61
Anquan Boldin 4.71
Deebo Samuel 4.48
Brandon Aiyuk 4.5
Reggie Wayne 4.5
Plaxico Burress 4.59

 

I think everyone owes @KDIGGZ an apology before he hurts himself twisting himself into knots saying he wasn't equating 40 yard dash time to NFL success. Goalposts are very heavy and difficult to move.

 

 

KD is obviously all butt hurt because they sent the problem child drama queen packing. Good riddance. Love Coleman’s attitude!

 

 

Edited April 29 by PayDaBill$

[harmonkillebrew]

30 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The idea that guys would dig it when every team is watching is silly.  The idea that one 40 time means much is silly.  We will see how they use him and how he performs soon.

 

Get that through your thick head.

Guys are focused on catching the ball, not running fast.  Coleman ran so fast he was out of bounds by the last ball. 

Don't be such a grumpy old man. 

Bills still need a boundary WR (or two) and maybe a new GM/HC

[nedboy7]

Keenan Allen ran a 4.71?  Gross. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

3 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Guys are focused on catching the ball, not running fast.  Coleman ran so fast he was out of bounds by the last ball. 

Don't be such a grumpy old man. 

Bills still need a boundary WR (or two) and maybe a new GM/HC

This is a self-defeating argument my man.  Guys that slow down to catch the ball are not as fast as their 40 time where the ain't gotta catch no nothing.  Poster was not being a grumpy old man.  As a grumpy old man I take some offense to that!

Edited April 29 by MarlinTheMagician

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Guys are focused on catching the ball, not running fast.  Coleman ran so fast he was out of bounds by the last ball. 

Don't be such a grumpy old man. 

Bills still need a boundary WR (or two) and maybe a new GM/HC

So now the other guys are excused from running fast and catching balls?  Wonder what they’ll say to their coaches when the bullets start flying.

 

You’re being a bit ridiculous at this point.

[MarlinTheMagician]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Keenan Allen ran a 4.71?  Gross. 

Wow.  Didn't know that.  Thanks for posting!

[Royale with Cheese]

Its interesting what you learn when you click on threads.

 

I learned that the WR gauntlet drill is worthless because all the WR's, except for one, just jog it.  So basically the gauntlet drill was specifically for Keon Coleman and no one else.

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

The overhead of that video potentially showed a reason why Franklin dropped to the 4th round.  He was zig zagging all over the place

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

40 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

So Coleman didn't just run the fastest gauntlet time this year, he ran the fastest in the last TWO years.  The fastest last year - who also had a slow 40 -- was Puka Nakua and Coleman was faster than him.  At least Puka didn't jog, and he is not too bad.

 

Doesn't count, 40 time, accuracy rate, separation, you can't improve accuracy you have it or you don't

[CaliBills]

21 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Please show me a post where I said anything about 40 yard dash is key to success. I didn't even say I didn't like the pick. The guy is slow. He can hopefully figure it out and make due. Simple as that. You can post he had the fastest ever time running to the bathroom at the combine, that doesn't change his speed or his game tape.

FFS you are exhausting...  

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

7 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

The overhead of that video potentially showed a reason why Franklin dropped to the 4th round.  He was zig zagging all over the place

I think he also ran last in that or another drill.  

 

I love our Hardy pick - my daughter goes to Penn State so I watched him a lot.  He runs a 4.38, I believe.  Hits like a truck too.  But I don't think the 5'9" Hardy would enjoy covering Coleman.  Different courses for different horses -- seems people don't accept that.  

Edited April 29 by MarlinTheMagician

[MPL]

Keon Coleman is a short-burst kind of guy. Fast-twitch. Basketball hops. He is explosive. I think he does possess the ability to get open in the 10-20 yard range. However, on longer developing routes and go routes, defensive backs are going to be able to recover and close ground on him. I get the impression that Florida State didn't really use him well. It seems like often-times, if the first-read wasn't open, the QB would just throw up a prayer in Coleman's direction.  

 

I think he's going to be a fun guy to root for. I hope Brady doesn't just try to line him up outside and run deep routes. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Man, I have come full circle on this pick.  Just watched the full interview the poster put up earlier.  That kind of easy confidence from a 20 year-old strongly suggests to me he is going to be a star.  Confidence like that comes from past performance and knowing what you can do.  Focused, but not a care in the world.  I think he is going to be a great pro, putting my stake in the ground today.  And I hated the pick - maybe I was right then and wrong now, but I think he is a star in the league.

[GASabresIUFan]

4 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

Actually he hit the highest speed in the gauntlet test over the last two years (20.36 MPH). Puca Nacua is second at 20.06.

 

The NFL world is pissed that we "gave" Worthy to KC.  But what people forget about Hill is his in game speed, not just his 40 speed.  His 22.01 mph on a TD in week 5 this past season was the fastest recorded ball-carrier speed last season.

 

As Coleman said in his presser, he doesn't remember ever getting caught from behind.

Edited April 29 by GASabresIUFan