Need maybe two things in this draft

[MrEpsYtown]

32 minutes ago, TPS said:

I wouldn't call this a ringing endorsement of your argument given it took a miracle reception by David Tyree to upset the Patriots and ruin their almost perfect season.

That’s true. Having Moss took things to an overload level for the Pats! It’s when they were at their best, freak catch or not, they still did not win!  But crazy things happen in these championship games like the refs deciding that the Chiefs were allowed to hold on offense! 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

What annoys me is the this notion of a #1 receiver. The Chiefs won the last two championships without much at receiver but a TE who was a threat. The Niners have a #1 receiver who is a slot guy and is hurt a-lot. The Patriots won all those years without a real #1 and the time that they had one in Randy Moss they lost to the Giants. The Eagles won one with a backup QB and Zach Ertz. 
 

I think it is just an overrated notion that we need a big X or whatever. Erhardt-perkins doesn’t even really have these traditional receiver positions built in. It’s about concepts and you have an outside guy and an inside guy. In trips you have an outside guy, and inside guy and a middle guy and they run different routes depending on the concept called and the coverage. 

 

We just need good players who can run routes and be where they are supposed to be. If you can get a game breaker who the defense has to double, thats amazing. 
 

How many true #1s are there in the league anyway? Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, Ja’Marr Chase…CeeDee Lamb and Amon Ra St. Brown probably but they are really slot players. Davante Adams probably, but he is slowing down as is Cooper Kupp and I need to see Nacua repeat this year before I annoint him. Deebo, but he is a slot/gadget guy. This notion that you need a true number 1 is a myth. There are like 5-6 teams in the league with true #1 receivers imo. 
 

Just give your all world QB weapons that are reliable, catch the football, and play within the system. 

KC has won with a #1 guy in Hill and won without a true #1 wr. I think they’re an exception and not too many teams throughout league history can do that.

 

Bills have not won it with Diggs as a true #1 wr the last four years. Fans were even upset that Davis didn’t do more as a #2. Expecting to win it now after losing that #1 wr and that #2 is an improbable expectation. Another true reliable #1 has to emerge from the current group (including draft picks) this season for there to be a real chance the following season. 
 

This season will be used to sort all this out. When KC traded away Hill they put a lot of burden on Mahomes to make it work with the aftermath. Same will be expected of Allen. Let’s see how it unfolds. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I would say we have other needs, though they are more depth than anything.

 

We could use another EDGE rusher. Some CB help. And the RB room does need at least 2 more bodies. One for RB2 and another to compete for the PS with Evans and take preseason reps. I would even say Punter is still upgradable as well. 

 

But roster wise I think we are sitting pretty much when Beane traditionally likes to be. No huge holes (aside from WR) and lets him take the best available bon his board.

I think this is a pretty optimistic view.

 

I think we really need a stater-capable player at DE in the likely event that Von Miller never regains decent starter form.  I was happy that they signed Epenesa, but I don’t think he is a good starting level player, though he could prove me wrong.

 

A young CB to replace 30 year old Rasul Douglas in a year is also needed as is a decent backup to Oliver at 3T.

 

I hope I am wrong, but both S are questionable starters and there is no depth there at all.

 

i think these are real needs that will show up during the season.  It will take 2 off-seasons to address those needs, in my opinion.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

In all the wailing and gnashing of teeth this off-season, the reality is we really have just two “needs” right now:  WR and S.  And even safety is questionable given Edward’s coming on board.  
 

I tend to believe Beane when he talks.  And he said the roster now is not what it will be in September.  He also said the team needs to get more explosive.  So I look for either a big move up to get one of the top 3 WRs, or a smaller move up in around 1 to get a kid that can take the roof off with speed.  Then maybe a S, maybe a quick edge guy.  Maybe a big RB late.  But whomever will be a guy with however Beane wants to define explosive.

100% I think they had pretty much filled every need in FA that we had other than backups. These are late round picks and undrafted rookies imo. Maybe some vets that waited too long and camps are about to start and they sign for vet min deals. 
 

I think he absolutely had a plan in place with the draft picks and trading Diggs. He’s making a splash at WR. Whatever that is we’ll find out 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think this is a pretty optimistic view.

 

I think we really need a stater-capable player at DE in the likely event that Von Miller never regains decent starter form.  I was happy that they signed Epenesa, but I don’t think he is a good starting level player, though he could prove me wrong.

 

A young CB to replace 30 year old Rasul Douglas in a year is also needed as is a decent backup to Oliver at 3T.

 

I hope I am wrong, but both S are questionable starters and there is no depth there at all.

 

i think these are real needs that will show up during the season.  It will take 2 off-seasons to address those needs, in my opinion.

And this is a rather pessimistic view, IMO.

 

A year ago many of us learned a lesson by way of the MLB position. What will be, will be. 

 

You say a young CB is needed to take Rasul's place. I say Benford could be that guy. I say Elam with a new DC and position coach could be that guy. 

 

You say both S are questionable starters. I say many said the same years ago when Poyer and Hyde arrived in Buffalo and the opportunity and coaching led them to both becoming All-Pro level players. 

 

With forecasting football players it's easier and safer to take the pessimistic view as if it doesn't work out that way the "penalty" is a simple waving of the hand and a "Boy, I'm glad I was wrong, fells" comment. There's also an inherently higher possibility of a guy failing than succeeding. That's why I believe so many take that approach. 

 

While I don't guarantee Elam or AJE or anyone else will definitely step up and become the Bernard of this season....at the very least last season was a lesson in patience and waiting to see what things will look. We have some holes and some areas to improve, for sure. But honestly either positive or negative no one actually knows what the roster will look like or what players will be improved from last year. Time tells all.

[OldTimer1960]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And this is a rather pessimistic view, IMO.

 

A year ago many of us learned a lesson by way of the MLB position. What will be, will be. 

 

You say a young CB is needed to take Rasul's place. I say Benford could be that guy. I say Elam with a new DC and position coach could be that guy. 

 

You say both S are questionable starters. I say many said the same years ago when Poyer and Hyde arrived in Buffalo and the opportunity and coaching led them to both becoming All-Pro level players. 

 

With forecasting football players it's easier and safer to take the pessimistic view as if it doesn't work out that way the "penalty" is a simple waving of the hand and a "Boy, I'm glad I was wrong, fells" comment. There's also an inherently higher possibility of a guy failing than succeeding. That's why I believe so many take that approach. 

 

While I don't guarantee Elam or AJE or anyone else will definitely step up and become the Bernard of this season....at the very least last season was a lesson in patience and waiting to see what things will look. We have some holes and some areas to improve, for sure. But honestly either positive or negative no one actually knows what the roster will look like or what players will be improved from last year. Time tells all.

I do tend to be more pessimistic than many fans, but just take the pass rush.  It wasn’t great last year and their top sack producer is gone.  Miller was a shell of his former self - if he improves 50% from that, it still wouldn’t be good.  I like Epenesa and the guy that they signed from Washington should be pretty good backups, but where is pressure and sacks coming from?  At best, it’s unproven.

 

i also hope that Elam comes around and can become a good starter, but the past two years suggest that isn’t likely.

 

Who is the backup to Oliver?  Maybe that will come in the draft, but not if they use a bunch of picks to move up for wr.

 

I guess my point is that there are a lot of questions on the roster, especially on D.  Now, I am not complaining about that- I think the reset needed to be done, but patience will be needed and I would keep those questions in mind before trading a bunch of picks to move up for WR because they likely need them to address other needs.  I don’t think that 1 WR in this draft makes this a Super Bowl contender instantly.

[Thurman#1]

Safety, corner, sledgehammer RB, IOL, pass rush. 

 

WR also.

 

Plus depth.

Edited April 6 by Thurman#1

[nosejob]

On 4/5/2024 at 12:44 PM, Nephilim17 said:

Pass rush. And a 1-tech as a backup now but a future starter to take over for Daquan.

I can see them moving up to 26, maybe 24 and getting Latu. Then start dealing.

[Bill from NYC]

In a class that is said to be loaded at OT, the Bills should absolutely draft at least 1.  Dion is HUGE and a great candidate for injury. RT Brown will probably command a HUGE contract when free agency comes around. 

 

If we posters can see this, it isn't asking too much for McDermott to see it.

[BillsDad51]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:58 AM, Virgil said:

Needs:

WR

S

 

Likes:

DT - A lot of one year deals on the team.  It would be great to get rookies some experience so they can step up next year

DE - The jury is still out on how Von can bounce back.  That would leave just Groot and AJ

OG/C - Whether McGovern is going C or not, we want more depth there.  I'd love a starting C, and keep the rest of the line as it was last year.

LB - We really needed better LB depth last year, and it's not crazy to think we wouldn't need it again

RB - We can also fill this in FA, but Cook still has ball security issues and we like to rotate. 

 

Definitely DT. So Bills don't have to hit the free agent market for one next offseason.

[Thurman#1]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:20 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

And this is a rather pessimistic view, IMO.

 

A year ago many of us learned a lesson by way of the MLB position. What will be, will be. 

 

 

I mean, yeah, sure, what will be will be.

 

Several years ago many others of us learned a lesson by way of the guard position. Feliciano, Brian Winters, Quinton Spain, Rodger Saffold. What will be will be. 

 

But sometimes what is ... is not that good. 

 

Sometimes there are too many needs for all of them to be addressed with enough of our limited resources. This year with several cornerstones leaving absolutely looks to be one of those years. I wish it didn't, but it does. 

 

Beane still has time, and the draft. But we need that time and those picks to be used very well.

[Nephilim17]

2 hours ago, nosejob said:

I can see them moving up to 26, maybe 24 and getting Latu. Then start dealing.

I wouldn't argue but a lot of mocks now have him going much higher. We'll see...

[nosejob]

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

I wouldn't argue but a lot of mocks now have him going much higher. We'll see...

CBS Sports mock has AZ. taking Latu at 27.  Oh Hell No

[Nextmanup]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:55 AM, oldmanfan said:

In all the wailing and gnashing of teeth this off-season, the reality is we really have just two “needs” right now:  WR and S.  And even safety is questionable given Edward’s coming on board.  
 

I tend to believe Beane when he talks.  And he said the roster now is not what it will be in September.  He also said the team needs to get more explosive.  So I look for either a big move up to get one of the top 3 WRs, or a smaller move up in around 1 to get a kid that can take the roof off with speed.  Then maybe a S, maybe a quick edge guy.  Maybe a big RB late.  But whomever will be a guy with however Beane wants to define explosive.

There's not a chance in hell that we are done at the WR position.

 

We're just getting started.

[4th&long]

[Eastport bills]

We need a db to backup Elam because he hasn’t proved anything going into year 3. A safety for sure and a dynamic KR. Since Hines  we haven’t a real flip the field threat. Perhaps the 2nd receiver we draft can provide that. An young edge rusher who could drop back in coverage would be a luxury that would pay dividends.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I mean, yeah, sure, what will be will be.

 

Several years ago many others of us learned a lesson by way of the guard position. Feliciano, Brian Winters, Quinton Spain, Rodger Saffold. What will be will be. 

 

But sometimes what is ... is not that good. 

 

Sometimes there are too many needs for all of them to be addressed with enough of our limited resources. This year with several cornerstones leaving absolutely looks to be one of those years. I wish it didn't, but it does. 

 

Beane still has time, and the draft. But we need that time and those picks to be used very well.

 

Sometimes it's not that there's "too many needs" but rather that the talent available doesn't match the team's needs.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:23 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Buffalo has the following picks in 2024 - 

 

28, 60, 128, 133, 144, 160, 163, 200 or 204, and 248.

 

I don't expect them to draft all of them - but i would think 6-7 picks this year.  Use some to move around as add-ons in a deal to move up.  

 

I'd put the needs at - 

 

WR - Probably 2.  I don't think they need to double dip in the first 2 rounds.

OL - 2 of our current starters are on rookie deals, but its always smart to invest in this position group because it keeps your QB upright, and physical defensive lines have given us issues come playoff time.  Just continue to add here every year.  

DT - Austin Johnson fills the settle role, but they need a younger player under contract in this rotation at 3T.  

DE - Depends if Miller ever becomes a useful player again, and what you think of Toohill and Jonathan.  Could be a target in the 2nd.

CB - Losing dane and Tre.  We've had some success with later round picks here and I'd expect 1 or 2 this season.  In the past you had benford/elam/jackson so the late round picks had their work cut out for them - but with the depth of ingram and lewis, rookies can definitely make this team. 

S - Like the guys they grabbed, but middle rounds can find some pretty good players.  Depth here is pretty meh. 

You had me at double dip wrs.

[Richard Noggin]

On 4/5/2024 at 12:21 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

What annoys me is the this notion of a #1 receiver. The Chiefs won the last two championships without much at receiver but a TE who was a threat. The Niners have a #1 receiver who is a slot guy and is hurt a-lot. The Patriots won all those years without a real #1 and the time that they had one in Randy Moss they lost to the Giants. The Eagles won one with a backup QB and Zach Ertz. 
 

I think it is just an overrated notion that we need a big X or whatever. Erhardt-perkins doesn’t even really have these traditional receiver positions built in. It’s about concepts and you have an outside guy and an inside guy. In trips you have an outside guy, and inside guy and a middle guy and they run different routes depending on the concept called and the coverage. 

 

We just need good players who can run routes and be where they are supposed to be. If you can get a game breaker who the defense has to double, thats amazing. 
 

How many true #1s are there in the league anyway? Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, Ja’Marr Chase…CeeDee Lamb and Amon Ra St. Brown probably but they are really slot players. Davante Adams probably, but he is slowing down as is Cooper Kupp and I need to see Nacua repeat this year before I annoint him. Deebo, but he is a slot/gadget guy. This notion that you need a true number 1 is a myth. There are like 5-6 teams in the league with true #1 receivers imo. 
 

Just give your all world QB weapons that are reliable, catch the football, and play within the system. 

 

Your first bolded (by me) section is fascinating stuff that we rarely discuss. I think E-P (as installed by Daboll and then Dorsey) has actually been a detriment to this offense the past two seasons--its noted density and complexity and pre- and post-snap checks and options remind me of why Rex Ryan's defense was difficult for his Bills players to execute as the league evolved: it made players think and adjust and read and react more and more as opposing schemes disguised more and more...to the point that players who weren't many years deep in the system had difficulty playing fast and communicating well, leading to breakdowns. Gabe Davis, very notably, had continued issues reading coverages and altering his routes IN REAL TIME, IN SYNC WITH HIS QUARTERBACK. The fault could have been with his QB at times, for sure, and likely was. But it only seemed to happen often between those two (and consistently over the span of four years). Sanders was the other guy who came in and seemed to have some difficulty getting on the same page as Allen. 

 

So, good on you for even typing "Erhardt-Perkins." My most pressing reaction is that I think Brady will continue moving the Bills offense AWAY from what Daboll installed, and also then what Dorsey seemed to be unable to bend to his own vision (that 21 personnel some of us saw coming, and any kind of marriage between run and pass). Brady, we hope, continues to emphasize attacking all quadrants of the field with a mix of run and pass, of power and zone, of max protect and play-action and screens and vertical shots. The back half of last season hinted at a brand of balance and multiplicity that increases the Bills' chances of solving defensive riddles against top flight competition.

 

But also, you CAN'T OVERLOOK Cooper in Cleveland (even though I don't care for the player), Allen in Chicago, Evans still in Tampa, Brown in Philly, Kelce in KC, etc. Your definition of "true #1" is probably too narrow. You're maybe defining a somewhat outdated, alignment-specific set of WR X or Z parameters, rather than a production-specific set of parameters. 

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Safety, corner, sledgehammer RB, IOL, pass rush. 

 

WR also.

 

Plus depth.

 

The text in red is probably going to inspire disagreement. WR should not be an "also" level need. It should be a primary need. Our most pressing need. Samuel and Shakir are fine pieces, but the Bills badly need an infusion of dangerous talent. In the draft, Thomas and Worthy and Legette best meet that criterium: dudes who can potentially make defenses adjust or pay. I think only 1 or 2 of them will be available at 28. But are Worthy and/or Legette good value at 28? Is a Newton or Robinson or DeJean too tempting? Will they then rely on a 2nd rd trade-UP to secure their X receiver of the present and future? 

 

"WR also" implies a kind of "we'll take whoever is still available at 60" kind of vibe that basically no one appreciates.