PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[papazoid]

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Sports teams need brokers and resellers to insulate franchises from large swings in ticket sales during down years.

 

makes perfect sense

 

except the sabres seem to be in another down year.....and yet they are purging resellers

 

Buffalo Sabres Crack Down on Ticket Resales with License Requirement, Fans in Uproar Over New Season Shakeup

https://fanrecap.com/buffalo-sabres-crack-down-on-ticket-resales-with-license-requirement-fans-in-uproar-over-new-season-shakeup/

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I mean, not really. Most owners go that route with new stadiums. It isn’t a secret that the PSLs come off of the owner’s contribution to the stadium. It isn’t ideal but we knew a decade ago that this would eventually be the case. 
 

I equate the PSL to buying a car new. Once you drive it off the lot it’s value drops drastically. You then put 20,000 miles a year on the first 3 years and it just isn’t close to what you paid. After a handful more years, it’s basically worthless. That’s why you aren’t buying it as an investment. You’re buying it because you want to be in the stadium for almm on Bills games. I guess by that logic, it is another ticket fee.

 

It’s like the initiation fee at a country club. You still have to pay your monthly dues, any assessments that come around and fees for different services. All that the initiation fee does is give you the right to pay those other fees.

It looked awesome. They walk you through how it is built a certain way to redirect wind. They talk about how the appearance is inspired by Kleinhans and the Aud. I thought that was all pretty sweet. The attention to detail was so far beyond what we currently have. I guess that isn’t a surprise with a 52 year old stadium. It looks like it will be one of the nicer stadiums in the league. 

 

I like the new car and country club comparisons.  I decided to pay because it’s worth it to me. I think that’s pretty simple. 

 

Country clubs can be even more expensive than PSL’s and you can’t always just walk away. You might have to be paying dues indefinitely until someone will buy it, which brings me back around to timeshares, but that’s another topic. 

[SoCal Deek]

44 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Bills aren’t avoiding revenue sharing in the least because revenues from the sale of PSLs are not subject to sharing with the league. The league still gets their 40% share of the gate revenue for any particular game just like it’s been for decades. 

Geeez we appear to be talking right past each other. Thats okay. 

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I read that the PSL sales can only go toward the stadium construction costs, but it was probably here that I read it so YMMV. 

Technically, the Bills can use PSL revenues for whatever they wanna use them for, but it makes sense to put it towards their share of the construction costs. The only point I was trying to make is that unlike revenues generated from ticket sales, which are shared 60/40 between the team/league, PSL revenues are not subject to revenue sharing so it’s not like the Bills are “hiding” anything from the league as was suggested in the post I responded to initially. 

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Geeez we appear to be talking right past each other. Thats okay. 

I have no idea why you’d say that as it seemed you weren’t sure when you suggested to @Kirby Jackson that Pegula was avoiding revenue sharing by hiding something and I only sought to clarify the issue for you. I have no idea how that’s talking past you, but yeah, that’s okay.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Technically, the Bills can use PSL revenues for whatever they wanna use them for, but it makes sense to put it towards their share of the construction costs. The only point I was trying to make is that unlike revenues generated from ticket sales, which are shared 60/40 between the team/league, PSL revenues are not subject to revenue sharing so it’s not like the Bills are “hiding” anything from the league as was suggested in the post I responded to initially. 

I have no idea why you’d say that as it seemed you weren’t sure when you suggested to @Kirby Jackson that Pegula was avoiding revenue sharing by hiding something and I only sought to clarify the issue for you. I have no idea how that’s talking past you, but yeah, that’s okay.

Kirby said nobody was hiding anything. But in truth, if he’s correct, then Pegula is in fact hiding/avoiding revenue sharing. Now, I’m not saying that’s good, bad, or unusual but this whole PSL thing is one big dodge at its core. 

[Jrb1979]

37 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

makes perfect sense

 

except the sabres seem to be in another down year.....and yet they are purging resellers

 

Buffalo Sabres Crack Down on Ticket Resales with License Requirement, Fans in Uproar Over New Season Shakeup

https://fanrecap.com/buffalo-sabres-crack-down-on-ticket-resales-with-license-requirement-fans-in-uproar-over-new-season-shakeup/

That crack down came from NY state. It wasn't up to the Sabres. I have a feeling it's just the beginning. I'm sure they will implement it for all NY teams. 

[K-9]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Kirby said nobody was hiding anything. But in truth, if he’s correct, then Pegula is in fact hiding/avoiding revenue sharing. Now, I’m not saying that’s good, bad, or unusual but this whole PSL thing is one big dodge at its core. 

As we all know, in the NFL there is shared and unshared revenue. If sales from PSLs are not subject to revenue sharing, which they aren’t, then how is that “hiding/avoiding revenue sharing?” 

 

If Pegula was misrepresenting to the league the amount of revenue generated by ticket sales, which every team is obligated to share on a 60/40 basis with the league, then yeah, he would be hiding and avoiding revenue sharing. But it is virtually impossible to fudge the numbers on ticket sales so that isn’t gonna happen.

[papazoid]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

That crack down came from NY state. It wasn't up to the Sabres. I have a feeling it's just the beginning. I'm sure they will implement it for all NY teams. 

 

whoever is responsible for the crackdown......it's highly likely it will eventually effect bills STH's 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kirby said nobody was hiding anything. But in truth, if he’s correct, then Pegula is in fact hiding/avoiding revenue sharing. Now, I’m not saying that’s good, bad, or unusual but this whole PSL thing is one big dodge at its core. 

There are other revenues that aren’t subject to revenue sharing. Advertising and sponsorships, for example aren’t shared. That’s why teams try to sell “soft” assets. As an example, if Highmark is going to pay the Bills $10m a year (or whatever) the Bills are going to try to allocate as much of that as possible to advertising. They don’t want them buying $10M worth of tickets.

Basically NFL teams get a different percentage of money depending on what it is spent on. This is the biggest reason that the Bills needed a new stadium. Teams were outpacing them with local revenue (nonshared). That revenue DOES still drive the cap. So the cap will continue to rise. While the Bills will get their equal share of the national revenue, the gap, over time, will continue to widen if teams keep growing their local revenue. The NFL owners wanted a new stadium because they wanted the Bills contributing more shared revenue on the ticket front. The more that the Bills charge, the more they’re contributing to the shared revenue pool.

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s like the initiation fee at a country club. You still have to pay your monthly dues, any assessments that come around and fees for different services. All that the initiation fee does is give you the right to pay those other fees.

It looked awesome. They walk you through how it is built a certain way to redirect wind. They talk about how the appearance is inspired by Kleinhans and the Aud. I thought that was all pretty sweet. The attention to detail was so far beyond what we currently have. I guess that isn’t a surprise with a 52 year old stadium. It looks like it will be one of the nicer stadiums in the league. 

That's the first time I've heard anything like that about the new stadium.  Sounds cool.  Can you elaborate on that at all?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

That's the first time I've heard anything like that about the new stadium.  Sounds cool.  Can you elaborate on that at all?

It was the first that I heard it also. It has the Kleinhans shape and “look” from the outside. I didn’t see as much of the Aud. They just mentioned it as we were going through. I forgot about the Rockpile influence as well. You see that in the entrances. It looks a lot like the Rockpile. 

[Jrb1979]

22 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

whoever is responsible for the crackdown......it's highly likely it will eventually effect bills STH's 

Why does many keep thinking they won't do crack down on them too?  Other teams have done it. The Giants did it a few years ago as well as the Broncos. 

[BillsPride12]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It was the first that I heard it also. It has the Kleinhans shape and “look” from the outside. I didn’t see as much of the Aud. They just mentioned it as we were going through. I forgot about the Rockpile influence as well. You see that in the entrances. It looks a lot like the Rockpile. 

That sounds pretty awesome.  I'm surprised this isn't being marketed more.  

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

That sounds pretty awesome.  I'm surprised this isn't being marketed more.  

Yeah, it was one of the first things that they showed us as we went through. The model that they have of the stadium was pretty awesome as well. It’s going to be really nice. 

[Kirby Jackson]

43 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

whoever is responsible for the crackdown......it's highly likely it will eventually effect bills STH's 

 

19 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Why does many keep thinking they won't do crack down on them too?  Other teams have done it. The Giants did it a few years ago as well as the Broncos. 

It’s one of the “dirty little secrets.” Teams have as many, or as few, broker seats as they want. My guess on the Sabres “crackdown” is that they just CAN’T continue to have that many Leaf fans in the building. That last game was embarrassing. You live with 50/50 in those situations but that game was like 80/20 for the visitors. It was too much. 
 

This is a total guess but maybe 2k-5k broker seats in the new stadium. They’ll probably limit it to 20 or so partners so that they can control it. 

[WotAGuy]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, it was one of the first things that they showed us as we went through. The model that they have of the stadium was pretty awesome as well. It’s going to be really nice. 

I’m surprised the one club doesn’t have viewing of the field.  Is it located behind some suites or just buried in the structure somehow?

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

It’s one of the “dirty little secrets.” Teams have as many, or as few, broker seats as they want. My guess on the Sabres “crackdown” is that they just CAN’T continue to have that many Leaf fans in the building. That last game was embarrassing. You live with 50/50 in those situations but that game was like 80/20 for the visitors. It was too much. 
 

This is a total guess but maybe 2k-5k broker seats in the new stadium. They’ll probably limit it to 20 or so partners so that they can control it. 

Again it wasn't the Sabres who decided this. It came from NY state. You can't tell me that a government official saw the amount of Leaf fans in the stands and decided "We have to do something about that"

[Augie]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It was the first that I heard it also. It has the Kleinhans shape and “look” from the outside. I didn’t see as much of the Aud. They just mentioned it as we were going through. I forgot about the Rockpile influence as well. You see that in the entrances. It looks a lot like the Rockpile. 

 

It might be 10-15 years ago now, but an old friend drove me from a game back to my hotel and he took me by the old Rockpile entrance. It was just the gates, but they made such an impression on me as a kid it was emotional to see them again. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Technically, the Bills can use PSL revenues for whatever they wanna use them for, but it makes sense to put it towards their share of the construction costs.

 

They can’t.

 

PSL’s must be used for the construction project and nothing else.

 

Its just double taxation for WNY’ers.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It was the first that I heard it also. It has the Kleinhans shape and “look” from the outside. I didn’t see as much of the Aud. They just mentioned it as we were going through. I forgot about the Rockpile influence as well. You see that in the entrances. It looks a lot like the Rockpile. 

 

I honestly don’t care (it doesn’t bother me), but i’m curious why they would pick Kleinhans to model from.

 

Its a staple, but definitely not in the top 5 of things I think of when “Buffalo New York” pops in my head.

 

Personally, since the day the rendering was released, all I can see is a stadium that resembles an upscale mall entrance.