PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

I think it remains to be seen if it’s a poor plan. The stadium will not open for over two years. If I were going to bet, I would bet on the multi billionaire and the team he has assembled who have no doubt studied this to death and have done it before, not the opinion of a fan no matter how dispassionately considered. When that stadium opens all available PSLs will have been sold and I am sure Terry will be very pleased with the financial result. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, FLFan said:

I think it remains to be seen if it’s a poor plan. The stadium will not open for over two years. If I were going to bet, I would bet on the multi billionaire and the team he has assembled who have no doubt studied this to death and have done it before, not the opinion of a fan no matter how dispassionately considered. When that stadium opens all available PSLs will have been sold and I am sure Terry will be very pleased with the financial result. 

Do you mean like the multi-billionaire in NY (Jets - Woody Johnson) and his team who had to cut their PSL prices in half for nearly 20,000 seats to sell them? Or the billionaire owner in Atlanta that also had to cut their PSL prices? And Oakland?

"Shoot for the stars and you will land on the moon".

If you think billionaire teams dont mess up... google "New Coke".

[papazoid]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Better yet, grab a PSL when the Bills cut the price in half - or when someone sells it on the resale market for penny's on the dollar.

 

i don't think either of those things will happen anytime soon

 

the bills would rather not sell a PSL seat to a STH for many years before they cut the price of a PSL in half and crash their own market. can you imagine the outrage finding out someone next to you paid less. they will just make unsold PSL seats available and part of the inventory that are sold as an individual game tix and hope to sell them as a full season,  the following year. don't forget that even before individual game tickets go on sale to the public, they are offered to STH first. one way or another.....every bills game will be a sellout for the foreseeable future.

 

as far as a PSL resale market goes.....the chances of anyone deciding after just 5 years to sell their PSL's will be a very small number. anyone who might be in that position wont get them in the first place. those who do sell will likely do way better than just "pennies" on the dollar. most will be transferred to a family member.

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Do you mean like the multi-billionaire in NY (Jets - Woody Johnson) and his team who had to cut their PSL prices in half for nearly 20,000 seats to sell them? Or the billionaire owner in Atlanta that also had to cut their PSL prices? And Oakland?

"Shoot for the stars and you will land on the moon".

If you think billionaire teams dont mess up... google "New Coke".

Simple economic dynamics. What percentage of total PSLs sold did that 20,000 represent? Did the lowering of those 20,000 PSL prices cause the Jets to lose revenue or simply not generate as much as they wanted? The team wasn’t hurt in the least from what I can gather. 

[WotAGuy]

9 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Simple economic dynamics. What percentage of total PSLs sold did that 20,000 represent? Did the lowering of those 20,000 PSL prices cause the Jets to lose revenue or simply not generate as much as they wanted? The team wasn’t hurt in the least from what I can gather. 

“Higgins said the team was sending an e-mail Friday to alert fans of the reduced prices in the $1.6 billion stadium. Lower end-zone seats will be dropped from $5,000 to $2,500, as will those in the mezzanine end zone. Seats in the lower-sideline section will be cut from $15,000 to $10,000.”

 

Those are 2010 prices and given how long ago that was, those do seem rather steep, given the Bills are apparently changing similar amounts 14 years later. So the Jets may have overestimated the demand at those prices. Also, this is back when there were TV blackouts if the stadium wasn’t sold out 72 hours before the game. 
 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2010/06/11/ny-jets-cut-prices-for-some-personal-seat-licenses.html

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, papazoid said:

can you imagine the outrage finding out someone next to you paid less

I can imagine! It's exactly what the Jets did. And the Falcons. And the Raiders.

Although the Raiders (to their credit), ended up reimbursing the fans who paid more at first.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Einstein

[papazoid]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I can imagine! It's exactly what the Jets did. And the Falcons. And the Raiders.
 

 

maybe the bills are trying to avoid that situation....

 

and that is why they haven't announce PSL pricing ahead of time for every section.

 

depending on how they do in the center section(s) between the 40 - 50 yard lines,  may make them raise or lower what they thought they would do for sections  between the 30 -40 yard lines.....and so on

[WotAGuy]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I can imagine! It's exactly what the Jets did. And the Falcons. And the Raiders.

Although the Raiders (to their credit), ended up reimbursing the fans who paid more at first.

 

 

The Jets also refunded the difference to 9,000 PSL holders who had already purchased in the reduced price sections, per the article I linked. The reduced price was for 9,000 unsold seats. 

[K-9]

27 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

“Higgins said the team was sending an e-mail Friday to alert fans of the reduced prices in the $1.6 billion stadium. Lower end-zone seats will be dropped from $5,000 to $2,500, as will those in the mezzanine end zone. Seats in the lower-sideline section will be cut from $15,000 to $10,000.”

 

Those are 2010 prices and given how long ago that was, those do seem rather steep, given the Bills are apparently changing similar amounts 14 years later. So the Jets may have overestimated the demand at those prices. Also, this is back when there were TV blackouts if the stadium wasn’t sold out 72 hours before the game. 
 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2010/06/11/ny-jets-cut-prices-for-some-personal-seat-licenses.html

I appreciate the info and the effort to furnish it, but it doesn’t answer the two questions I asked. 
 

But again, it’s simple economic dynamics at play: reduce prices to increase demand. It will be interesting to see what percentage of seats the Bills end up lowering the PSL prices on and if they will be the same type of cheaper seats as the Jets ended up lowering. If so, that would indicate that sales of the premiums will have gone just fine. 

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I appreciate the info and the effort to furnish it, but it doesn’t answer the two questions I asked. 
 

But again, it’s simple economic dynamics at play: reduce prices to increase demand. It will be interesting to see what percentage of seats the Bills end up lowering the PSL prices on and if they will be the same type of cheaper seats as the Jets ended up lowering. If so, that would indicate that sales of the premiums will have gone just fine. 

I think the article does a good job of answering your questions. It wasn’t 20k seats, it was 9,000 unsold seats that they lowered the price to ensure a sell out. They offered 9,000 other seat holders a refund for the difference in the original PSL price and the reduced price.   So, you can easily check the capacity of the stadium to see the percentage of total seats this represents. 
 

And it seems clear they lost potential revenue by lowering the costs, but it seems doubtful they were in the red because of it, given the percentage of seats it represents. Your question about revenue isn’t really an either/or situation as you posed it; it does represent a loss of revenue and as a consequence, they did not make as much revenue as they had anticipated. 
 

 

Edited April 8 by WotAGuy

[K-9]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

I think the article does a good job of answering your questions. It wasn’t 20k seats, it was 9,000 unsold seats that they lowered the price to ensure a sell out. They offered 9,000 other seat holders a refund for the difference in the original PSL price and the reduced price.   So, you can easily check the capacity of the stadium to see the percentage of total seats this represents. 
 

And it seems clear they lost potential revenue by lowering the costs, but it seems doubtful they were in the red because of it, given the percentage of seats it represents. 

I didn’t read the article, but thanks. The 20,000 number came from @Einstein, but the fact it was actually less than half that amount suggests the PSL sales for the Jets were actually pretty good.

[DaVinci]

Does anyone have an Idea of how much the Bills PSL sale will generate? Or how much past PSL sales from other teams generated and what the percentage of the total stadium cost was?

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

I didn’t read the article, but thanks. The 20,000 number came from @Einstein, but the fact it was actually less than half that amount suggests the PSL sales for the Jets were actually pretty good.

 

Yes, close to 20,000. As I said.

 

Maybe you’re confused due the 9,000 that wasn’t sold. They essentially had to lower everyone’s prices who purchased in those sections in order to get the last 10k sold.

 

Considering that teams hold back several thousand tickets for individual sales (they don’t sell seasons for all seats), and that the Jets didn’t sell PSL’s (at all) in a lot of the upper decks, those 18,000 seats were likely close to 30% of all season tickets.

 

Summary; The Jets had to reduce PSL pricing on 18,000 PSLS. Atlanta did too. Oakland did too.

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Einstein

[papazoid]

4 hours ago, DaVinci said:

Does anyone have an Idea of how much the Bills PSL sale will generate? Or how much past PSL sales from other teams generated and what the percentage of the total stadium cost was?

 

The sale of Bills stadium PSLs are expected to raise between $100 million and $200 million, the News reported. 

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2023/06/06/new-buffalo-bills-stadium-construction-is-underway-whos-paying-for-it/70290350007/

[DaVinci]

Thanks papazoid.  Do NFL teams share in the revenue from PSLsales?

[nucci]

2 hours ago, DaVinci said:

Thanks papazoid.  Do NFL teams share in the revenue from PSLsales?

No

[WotAGuy]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes, close to 20,000. As I said.

 

Maybe you’re confused due the 9,000 that wasn’t sold. They essentially had to lower everyone’s prices who purchased in those sections in order to get the last 10k sold.

 

Considering that teams hold back several thousand tickets for individual sales (they don’t sell seasons for all seats), and that the Jets didn’t sell PSL’s (at all) in a lot of the upper decks, those 18,000 seats were likely close to 30% of all season tickets.

 

Summary; The Jets had to reduce PSL pricing on 18,000 PSLS. Atlanta did too. Oakland did too.

 

 

 

And perhaps this is why the Bills haven’t released an overall pricing structure.  They are going with the infamous “dynamic pricing” like done for concerts and other events.  They are gauging the market as they sell PSLs from top to bottom.
 

The Bills also have a very layered pricing where different rows in the same section have different prices, at least that’s what I saw from a figure someone presented upthread.   So that will give them further flexibility to have multiple price points within section. 
 

Perhaps the Bills/Legends have studied past PSL sales and seen the trends in the Jets, Falcons and Raiders sales and developed this method to avoid having to lower prices after they are announced. 
 

Just a thought. Not defending it. Offering an explanation. 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

Better yet, grab a PSL when the Bills cut the price in half - or when someone sells it on the resale market for penny's on the dollar.

 

why pay half a PSL?  You know I'll be buying that ticket on Stubhub...

[Kirby Jackson]

I’m going tomorrow with no idea what we are going to do. There’s really 3 options and each has flaws. 1) East Club - heated, covered, most expensive. 2) Field Club - great location, less expensive, not heated or covered 3) Wait and slide into the corners somewhere. Hoping to still be covered but probably sacrificing heat and amenities. 
 

I’ll report back with whatever I learn.

[Mr Info]

58 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m going tomorrow with no idea what we are going to do. There’s really 3 options and each has flaws. 1) East Club - heated, covered, most expensive. 2) Field Club - great location, less expensive, not heated or covered 3) Wait and slide into the corners somewhere. Hoping to still be covered but probably sacrificing heat and amenities. 
 

I’ll report back with whatever I learn.

It will be interesting to hear which sections are now unavailable in the East Clubs. When I committed two weeks ago there were 3 sections sold out. Reply about that if the rep says something.