Kirby Jackson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Virgil said: I can only speak for my family, and we are most likely going to get rid of the season tickets due to all of this. A major reason to have seasons is to have those seats locked in. If they weren't where they were, we wouldn't have kept them. For us, it'll make more sense just to buy single game tickets, pick where we sit, and let the ticket owner eat the PSL. Gameday tickets prices drop like crazy on the day of. Outside of the season opener in the new stadium, I'm sure we won't have issues getting tickets If you are lower level, between the 20’s, you were going to be the people most impacted by the new stadium. I work with a guy that has 1960 seniority and he’s at the 46 yard line, 30 rows up. He’s terrified of what’s coming for him (and rightfully so). Of all of the people in the stadium, that’s where the most “turnover” will happen. That sucks for you and others in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: 90% is always the goal. Yes, and the Bills are nearly 25 basis points lower than their own numbers from the past few years. 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: It is also, FAR AND AWAY the most expensive options. Yes, but this is typically offset due to the fact that club ticket holders are more often than not economically advantaged in comparison to fans in other section. Ie: Fans earning $130k per year paying $10k per year in seasons is equivalent to fans earning $50k per year paying close to $4k per year for seasons. 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: The PSLs that are <$5k will be sold at 95% plus. This would be highly unusual and very uncharacteristic of everything we know about price sensitivity and elasticity of demand. Which is to say that lower income fans that often make up the less pricier areas of the stadium are generally more price-sensitive, meaning their demand for tickets is more elastic. This elasticity is due to their inability (and sometimes unwillingness) to purchase tickets with even a small increase in price, as the cost represents a larger portion of their discretionary spending. This is exactly why the Bills are selling the club tickets first. They are obtaining a benchmark for sales with fans who have higher discretionary income and are likely adjusting their pricing for fans in other sections of the stadium based off of this data. When prices increase across the board, the demand among these fans might drop more sharply than among higher-income fans, who are less sensitive to price changes. The way most businesses get around this is by increasing the amount of available quantity at lower prices, thereby offsetting any reduced demand (on a percentage basis). What is interesting about the Bills situation is that they have reduced quantity available for lower priced seats, as the club seats now take up a much larger portion of the stadium AND they already reduced the stadium by close to 10k seats. Which again, is exactly why they doing clubs first. They’re going to use clubs as a benchmark to adjust the less pricier areas. Edited April 2 by Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 3/27/2024 at 8:46 AM, Mango said: Unsure if this is a joke or not. The Buffalo Bills are not playing in a free market economy. They took nearly a billion dollars in public subsidy. Christ. You’re missing a market. It would be a subsidy if the Bills couldn’t move. “You’re not allowed to go anywhere, but we’ll subsidize you with tax payer money.” It is a market because the Bills are able to move. “We’ll give you tax payer money to stay, knowing you don’t have to.” Municipalities without franchises are together part of the market. There are more than 32 cities that would like an NFL franchise. The “municipality” of NY State and Erie County “bought” thirty years of affiliation with NFL football in return for a construction and maintenance contribution. They paid fair market value. The Buffalo Bills most certainly are playing in a free market economy. They’re playing in one of the best of all. There is one thing that’s interesting to me in this supply / demand, hero / villain, tome. It’s the business strategy. By leaking section by section, highest to lowest, both valuation AND game theory come into play. This is a reverse auction disguised as a sale. Start with the highest price and bidders pass at their peril. Passers know they’re out of the current round but don’t know the offering (availability/location/cost) in the next round. ”Thank you for inviting me. I am unwilling to pay $100 thousand for my two seats as mapped into the new stadium. Can you tell me what will be available to me next, and at what price?” ”No, but thank you for coming, today. We’ll put you into a pool with others, not telling you how many, and offer you something later, not telling you what, for a price, not telling you how much.” I can assure you the sales team was briefed, trained and scripted on strategy and tactics. This, of course, happens everywhere and isn’t at all nefarious. The stakes are simply very high for passionate buyers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 20 minutes ago, Einstein said: Yes, and the Bills are nearly 25 basis points lower than their own numbers from the past few years. Yes, but this is typically offset due to the fact that club ticket holders are more often than not economically advantaged in comparison to fans in other section. Ie: Fans earning $130k per year paying $10k per year in seasons is equivalent to fans earning $50k per year paying close to $4k per year for seasons. This would be highly unusual and very uncharacteristic of everything we know about price sensitivity and elasticity of demand. Which is to say that lower income fans that often make up the less pricier areas of the stadium are generally more price-sensitive, meaning their demand for tickets is more elastic. This elasticity is due to their inability (and sometimes unwillingness) to purchase tickets with even a small increase in price, as the cost represents a larger portion of their discretionary spending. This is exactly why the Bills are selling the club tickets first. They are obtaining a benchmark for sales with fans who have higher discretionary income and are likely adjusting their pricing for fans in other sections of the stadium based off of this data. When prices increase across the board, the demand among these fans might drop more sharply than among higher-income fans, who are less sensitive to price changes. The way most businesses get around this is by increasing the amount of available quantity at lower prices, thereby offsetting any reduced demand. What is interesting about the Bills situation is that they have reduced quantity available for lower priced seats, as the club seats now take up a much larger portion of the stadium AND they already reduced the stadium by close to 10k seats. Which again, is exactly why they doing clubs first. They’re going to use clubs as a benchmark to adjust the less pricier areas. We have been saying the same thing pretty much the whole time. We just expect a different outcome. We absolutely agree that they are going to adjust the pricing depending on how these club seats sell. The Bills have a revenue target of $200M from PSLs (at least I think that’s what it is). The sale of the club seats will leave a “new target” and then the sale of lower bowl seats will leave another new target. Where we disagree is that they’ll struggle with the sale of the less expensive areas. Bills fans have ALWAYS found the money to support the Bills (at least when they are good). The average household income in Erie County is $84k and the median is $67k. Those are not big numbers. The cheapest ticket to Bills games was $168 last year, top 5 in the league. The lower priced seats have never been a problem. It is the clubs and suites that are tougher. I understand that it goes against some general economic trends but that is just how it has been for them. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/09/06/nfl-ticket-prices-2023-cheapest-most-expensive-prices/70722888007/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 51 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: We have been saying the same thing pretty much the whole time. We just expect a different outcome. We absolutely agree that they are going to adjust the pricing depending on how these club seats sell. The Bills have a revenue target of $200M from PSLs (at least I think that’s what it is). The sale of the club seats will leave a “new target” and then the sale of lower bowl seats will leave another new target. Where we disagree is that they’ll struggle with the sale of the less expensive areas. Bills fans have ALWAYS found the money to support the Bills (at least when they are good). The average household income in Erie County is $84k and the median is $67k. Those are not big numbers. The cheapest ticket to Bills games was $168 last year, top 5 in the league. The lower priced seats have never been a problem. It is the clubs and suites that are tougher. I understand that it goes against some general economic trends but that is just how it has been for them. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/09/06/nfl-ticket-prices-2023-cheapest-most-expensive-prices/70722888007/ The $168 has to be the secondary market cause if you go by this site the Bills average ticket price is $101 and second to the bottom. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 13 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Why does it? They could DVR and go out for pizza like you do. Perhaps they will prefer it to going to the stadium as well. The point is, they are being forced into that because the NFL owners do not want to pay for their own place of business. If they like the end result doesn't matter. Plus some, maybe most, would prefer the stadium experience if that's what their families have been doing for generations. 18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Agreed. When I said #1, I meant one league in a single country. FIFA is in over 200 nations and 700 Leagues and yet the NFL is right behind them in total revenue….pretty wild. And would also imply they could/should pay for their own places of business instead of charging their fans up front? Edited April 2 by CodeMonkey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 25 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: The $168 has to be the secondary market cause if you go by this site the Bills average ticket price is $101 and second to the bottom. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/ That’s correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s correct Bills had 7th highest resale ticket value in NFL for 2023. It was $419 which is a good increase from the 2022 resale value of $224. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-ticket-prices-every-team/ Edited April 2 by Mr Info 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Mr Info said: Bills had 7th highest resale ticket value in NFL for 2023. It was $419 which is a good increase from the 2022 resale value of $224. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-ticket-prices-every-team/ So hard to gauge anything based on resale value. I doubled my ticket prices at face value in 4 of the 6 regular season games I sold. Didn’t lose any money on the other 2. As far as the playoffs I almost doubled my money on the Chiefs game but took a loss in the Steelers game. The weather was not helpful those weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, mrags said: So hard to gauge anything based on resale value. I doubled my ticket prices at face value in 4 of the 6 regular season games I sold. Didn’t lose any money on the other 2. As far as the playoffs I almost doubled my money on the Chiefs game but took a loss in the Steelers game. The weather was not helpful those weeks. You sold 6/8 games and Terry didn’t come after you for a resellers license? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Where we disagree is that they’ll struggle with the sale of the less expensive areas. Bills fans have ALWAYS found the money to support the Bills (at least when they are good). That's an interesting comment, because some fans have taken into consideration that once the new stadium is open, Allen will be sniffing his back-9 and most of what they pay for could quote easily be another drought era. Just sayin' as I know it's been mentioned here as well. It's not as if it's a big secret. The question of course is to what extent, if at all, sales will be hindered. We won't know until the process is finished, or at least well underway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Mango said: You sold 6/8 games and Terry didn’t come after you for a resellers license? that scalper crackdown announcement like the Sabres, won't happen until the Bills have all the PSL money in their pocket 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 20 minutes ago, Mango said: You sold 6/8 games and Terry didn’t come after you for a resellers license? lol. Didn’t even have to claim on my taxes. Didn’t profit more than 5k 14 minutes ago, papazoid said: that scalper crackdown announcement like the Sabres, won't happen until the Bills have all the PSL money in their pocket Seriously doubt that’s happening. People are too worked up over it. There’s 8-9 homes games a year in football. There’s 40+ in hockey. There’s a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl 716 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Good luck!!! Let us know how it goes I think @Mr Info and others have posted similar information, but they are pushing three sections/tiers for club seats: Founders Club (100K for two PSLs), East Club (40K for two PSLs), and a 100 level section (can’t remember the name) on the 50 yard line (30K for two PSLs) but no coverage or heat. My current seats in 235 are most comparable to the East Club…a two level club on the visitors sideline with heat and full coverage. Reserved a couple in the East Club, section C227 which is around the 25 yard line depending on where your seats are. The payment options were the same as others have described, pay in full, 20% down and 3 year payment plan with no interest, and a 10 year financed option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 28 minutes ago, papazoid said: that scalper crackdown announcement like the Sabres, won't happen until the Bills have all the PSL money in their pocket Scalper crackdown? What, they're going after Ticketmaster? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 12 minutes ago, cdl 716 said: I think @Mr Info and others have posted similar information, but they are pushing three sections/tiers for club seats: Founders Club (100K for two PSLs), East Club (40K for two PSLs), and a 100 level section (can’t remember the name) on the 50 yard line (30K for two PSLs) but no coverage or heat. My current seats in 235 are most comparable to the East Club…a two level club on the visitors sideline with heat and full coverage. Reserved a couple in the East Club, section C227 which is around the 25 yard line depending on where your seats are. The payment options were the same as others have described, pay in full, 20% down and 3 year payment plan with no interest, and a 10 year financed option. Thank you!! Covered and heated are important to me but a total dealbreaker for her. I’ll be looking at the East Club as well it sounds like. I was hoping that those were the ones that were $15k. I like the 3 year interest free option. I thought it was going to be shorter so feel like that’s a small win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Mango said: You sold 6/8 games and Terry didn’t come after you for a resellers license? And gouging the taxpayers who paid to have the stadium built in 1973 by doubling the ticket price. Einstein probably has an equation to prove this is an affront to Bills fans everywhere. If the tickets were even sold to Bills fans. Outrageous I tell ya! Edited April 2 by WotAGuy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Mr Info said: Bills had 7th highest resale ticket value in NFL for 2023. It was $419 which is a good increase from the 2022 resale value of $224. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-ticket-prices-every-team/ Just FYI for all - Resale value does not indicate what fans will pay for seasons or PSL’s. Resale tickets prices are based off very different market economics. These are fans that often only go to 1 or 2 games per year - therefore they justify significantly higher prices because they don’t need to pay for the remaining 6 or 7 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 27 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Scalper crackdown? What, they're going after Ticketmaster? The Bills decided a couple years ago to get into bed with official resellers. They then shut down the ticket office that sells group rates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl 716 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Thank you!! Covered and heated are important to me but a total dealbreaker for her. I’ll be looking at the East Club as well it sounds like. I was hoping that those were the ones that were $15k. I like the 3 year interest free option. I thought it was going to be shorter so feel like that’s a small win. My sense is the clubs are selling very well so far. The East Club has two sections, C225 and C226, that are roughly between the 40 yard lines and both are completely sold out. Good luck with your appointment…it’s next week, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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