SaulGoodman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 My guess is Allen would have a couple SB appearances and maybe one ring. Year by year… 2017 - Allen sits behind Alex Smith 2018 - Still raw and developing, Allen is surrounded by a lot of offensive talent but arguably the worst defense in the league. Probably a pretty solid season but no ring. 2019 - Allen probably would’ve had a good shot at reaching the Super Bowl. 2020 - Allen and the Chiefs host Mahomes and Buffalo in the AFCC. Allen probably wins, then loses to Tampa in the SB. Can’t overcome a third string OL and receivers that drop everything. 2021 - Mahomes wins the 13 seconds game. 2022 - If Allen couldn’t score on the Bengals with Buffalo, he probably wouldn’t have had much luck with a high ankle sprain and a WR corps of MVS, Skyy Moore and Marcus Kemp. 2023 - Allen loses in divisional in Buffalo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Swap the head coaches not the QBs. To be fair to McDermott, which I rarely am, Reid was a bust in Philadelphia too. He choked worse than McDermott ever did in Philadelphia. Maybe McDermott figures it out. Maybe he doesn't. No matter what we think Pegula seems committed to him. We will see just how committed if they have another early playoff exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: 2021 - Mahomes wins the 13 seconds game. Mahomes throws a slant to, uh, Isaiah McKenzie who runs 60 yards for a go ahead TD with 1 minute remaining. Sounds about right. Edited March 13 by HappyDays 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 hours ago, FireChans said: What if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady swapped? Brady would still be the GOAT. Mahomes is the GOAT. GOAT is greatest of all time; both could not be the greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeskillitMoorman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 If Mahomes was saddled with McD, I don’t think he’d have a SB. He’s just too big of an obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 40 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: If Mahomes was saddled with McD, I don’t think he’d have a SB. He’s just too big of an obstacle. And yet he reached the playoffs in his first season with a mediocre roster and Tyrod Taylor. Why is he such a big obstacle in your mind? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 5 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: And yet he reached the playoffs in his first season with a mediocre roster and Tyrod Taylor. Why is he such a big obstacle in your mind? That was one of the biggest "back into the playoffs" stories in NFL history. You generally give no context to the counter-points you try to make. 12 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: My guess is Allen would have a couple SB appearances and maybe one ring. Year by year… 2017 - Allen sits behind Alex Smith 2018 - Still raw and developing, Allen is surrounded by a lot of offensive talent but arguably the worst defense in the league. Probably a pretty solid season but no ring. 2019 - Allen probably would’ve had a good shot at reaching the Super Bowl. 2020 - Allen and the Chiefs host Mahomes and Buffalo in the AFCC. Allen probably wins, then loses to Tampa in the SB. Can’t overcome a third string OL and receivers that drop everything. 2021 - Mahomes wins the 13 seconds game. 2022 - If Allen couldn’t score on the Bengals with Buffalo, he probably wouldn’t have had much luck with a high ankle sprain and a WR corps of MVS, Skyy Moore and Marcus Kemp. 2023 - Allen loses in divisional in Buffalo How does Mahomes win the 13 seconds game? Does he rush out to tell the ST unit to squib it at the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryMadman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Swap the head coaches not the QBs. To be fair to McDermott, which I rarely am, Reid was a bust in Philadelphia too. He choked worse than McDermott ever did in Philadelphia. Maybe McDermott figures it out. Maybe he doesn't. No matter what we think Pegula seems committed to him. We will see just how committed if they have another early playoff exit. That's just wrong, Reid did not choke worse in Philly than McDermott has. 4 straight NFCC games and a SB appearance with D McNabb says otherwise. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 3 hours ago, Success said: That was one of the biggest "back into the playoffs" stories in NFL history. You generally give no context to the counter-points you try to make. How does Mahomes win the 13 seconds game? Does he rush out to tell the ST unit to squib it at the end? You seem to think there's nothing more that Allen could have done in that game, but Buffalo punted on about half their possessions (4 of 9). KC punted on 2 of 11. It's Mahomes that had to be nearly flawless, because his defense was blowing coverages constantly and leaving receivers open by a mile. Plus his kicker missed two easy kicks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 minute ago, SaulGoodman said: You seem to think there's nothing more that Allen could have done in that game, but Buffalo punted on about half their possessions (4 of 9). KC punted on 2 of 11. It's Mahomes that had to be nearly flawless, because his defense was blowing coverages constantly and leaving receivers open by a mile. Plus his kicker missed two easy kicks. So, Mahomes gets the kicker excuse for that game, but JA doesn't get it for the game this past January. Got it. Most people thought Allen played better than Mahomes that game. It was close & they both played great - but there really isn't a case for Mahomes winning that game for the Bills if he had been their QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, Success said: So, Mahomes gets the kicker excuse for that game, but JA doesn't get it for the game this past January. Got it. Why would I make excuses for a win? Just pointing out that he had plenty to overcome in that game and had to be practically flawless. As for January, sure, that missed kick hurt their chances. Never said otherwise. Although a kick in the mid-40s for a weak kicker is different than one of the league’s best missing two chip shots. 2 hours ago, Success said: Most people thought Allen played better than Mahomes that game. It was close & they both played great - but there really isn't a case for Mahomes winning that game for the Bills if he had been their QB. Most people think Mahomes is a better QB than Allen. You pick and choose when you want to listen to most people. Why would there not be a case for Mahomes winning that game for Buffalo? He’d be facing a weaker defense that repeatedly blew coverage and left Diggs or Davis open by a mile. If you thought they picked on Klein, imagine what Mahomes and better receivers would have done to Sorenson, Niemann, and Hughes. Edited March 14 by SaulGoodman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 hours ago, Success said: So, Mahomes gets the kicker excuse for that game, but JA doesn't get it for the game this past January. ICYMI, Mahomes overcame the two misses and won the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 On 3/12/2024 at 1:55 PM, first_and_ten said: What if the only difference between the Chiefs and the Bills were the quarterbacks for the last 4 years, Imagine Josh Allen on the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes on the Bills. It's my opinion that the Chiefs would still have won at least 2, possibly all 3 Super Bowls. I think the Bills still come up short even with Mahomes. I think Josh Allen would be talked about as the Goat instead of Mahomes. Organizations help make a player a champion, and the Chiefs organization is better than the Bills. Just one man's opinion, a longsuffering Bills fan. 😔 Agree 100%. Coaching/GM is the major difference, not the QBS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said: Why would I make excuses for a win? Just pointing out that he had plenty to overcome in that game and had to be practically flawless. As for January, sure, that missed kick hurt their chances. Never said otherwise. Although a kick in the mid-40s for a weak kicker is different than one of the league’s best missing two chip shots. Most people think Mahomes is a better QB than Allen. You pick and choose when you want to listen to most people. Why would there not be a case for Mahomes winning that game for Buffalo? He’d be facing a weaker defense that repeatedly blew coverage and left Diggs or Davis open by a mile. If you thought they picked on Klein, imagine what Mahomes and better receivers would have done to Sorenson, Niemann, and Hughes. Ah, yes. The KC defense just laid down for Allen. Unlike what the Bills defense did for Mahomes this past January. And it was quite a bit more than just "picking on Klein." Half the Bills D was out or hurt. I'm trying to imagine how much more spectacular Mahomes would have been than Allen if he was on the Bills for the 13 seconds game. I'm not able to muster much. Allen was unreal that game. If the Bills win that coin toss, NFL history is probably a bit different. You've got 3 Super Bowls, and the consensus top QB in the league. Some even say GOAT. The Bills haven't won a thing. Not sure why you need the vote of confidence for Mahomes from l'il ol' me. I'm never going to wish the Bills had Mahomes instead of Allen. Sorry 'bout that. Edited March 14 by Success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 On 3/12/2024 at 1:58 PM, BBFL said: This has been discussed to the extreme here… Josh is winning at least one MVP and multiple Lombardi’s. The other coin? Who knows. Pat would have walked into a sh-t scenario like Josh did. Maybe he makes it? Maybe he doesn’t. The sure thing is, again, the Chiefs and Josh being the success they have been. Reality is our guy is just as valuable and dominant as Pat without the accolades. Josh did not walk into a “sh-t scenario.” He was developed perfectly by Daboll. Ideally, he wouldn’t have started year 1, but by his 2nd he had serviceable skill positions along w/ a pretty good defense. Things could’ve been a million times worse. I thought the coaching staff did wonderful and obviously other teams did as well considering how quickly Daboll & Schoen were snatched up. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 15 hours ago, LarryMadman said: That's just wrong, Reid did not choke worse in Philly than McDermott has. 4 straight NFCC games and a SB appearance with D McNabb says otherwise. Saying McDermott choked worse than Reid did in Philly is HIGHLY debatable. McNabb was a very good QB, I’m not sure where the narrative came from that says otherwise. Reid also had Terrell Owens, Brian Dawkins, Brian Westbrook, Jason Peters, Lesean McCoy, Troy Vincent, Trent Cole, Lito Sheppard, and Jon Runyan as well. Plenty of HOF talent there w/ a slew of solid starters and still didn’t get the job done. Other than Josh Allen & Diggs (during the non-TO years) his overall talent was superior than anything McD has had in Buffalo so far. I am not letting him off the hook by any means, but that statement is total crap. Any serious NFL in the 2000s knows what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 josh would have won 5 super bowls in a row ! kc has better coaching kc has better team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfanatic8989 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Impossible to answer. You have to tke coaching and personnel around QB's into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 11 hours ago, Success said: Ah, yes. The KC defense just laid down for Allen. Unlike what the Bills defense did for Mahomes this past January. And it was quite a bit more than just "picking on Klein." Half the Bills D was out or hurt. I'm trying to imagine how much more spectacular Mahomes would have been than Allen if he was on the Bills for the 13 seconds game. I'm not able to muster much. Allen was unreal that game. If the Bills win that coin toss, NFL history is probably a bit different. You've got 3 Super Bowls, and the consensus top QB in the league. Some even say GOAT. The Bills haven't won a thing. Not sure why you need the vote of confidence for Mahomes from l'il ol' me. I'm never going to wish the Bills had Mahomes instead of Allen. Sorry 'bout that. He needs it because Chiefs fans see with their own eyes that Allen is better. They’re insecure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Josh did not walk into a “sh-t scenario.” He was developed perfectly by Daboll. Ideally, he wouldn’t have started year 1, but by his 2nd he had serviceable skill positions along w/ a pretty good defense. Things could’ve been a million times worse. I thought the coaching staff did wonderful and obviously other teams did as well considering how quickly Daboll & Schoen were snatched up. That was Daboll’s return to the NFL. Hardly anyone pegged him to have the success he did with Josh. Couple that with an OLine of Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine/Miller/Mills, throwing to Kelvin Benjamin/Zay Jones/Robert Foster/Andre Holmes/Charles Clay… The only good thing on that roster was Shady and a developing LT in Dawkins… Who everyone continuously cried should be a guard… It worked out. If you believe that’s a measure of quality to develop perfectly under then you should have absolutely no qualms or grievances with what he’s working with now. Pat walked into: Hunt/Williams/Kelce/Hill/Chris Conley/Demarcus Robinson/Sammy Watkins, behind an OLine of Eric Fisher/Cam Irving/Mitch Morse/Wylie/Mitch Schwartz… all the while coached by Andy Reid, who had the credentials even with just the Chiefs: Playoffs 4 of his first 5 seasons there prior to Mahomes taking over. Compare the 2 and I’d say that absolutely is a ***** scenario to walk into. The counter point is what, that you stated, Josh had a pretty good defense? So did the Chiefs… The coaching staff did wonderful, no doubt but the struggle to get where we were in terms of roster quality, on field product and Josh’s development make it incomparable. Also, to add, Pat was a pretty polished QB coming out of college with accolades and records to boot… Josh was, what? A project? Even at that standard I’d go out on a limb and say Mahomie would have struggled. Daboll or not. 2¢ Edited March 14 by BBFL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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