NFL MVP

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

I didn’t say Lamar was more deserving of the MVP than Josh Allen, I said the award wasn’t given to Lamar simply because he was Black like you all believed and then pointed out the reasons for why he won

 

Well it certainly wasn’t because of his record against playoff teams (Allen had a better record).

 

And I don’t know how it could be about his margin of victory, because Allen had a 13 point MOV against playoff teams.

 

And it can’t be about TD’s - because Allen had more of those.

 

And they both won 6 of their last 7 games.

 

 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Allen’s 5-1 record against playoff teams came with average margin of victory of 13 points.

 

There is no way around it. Lamar was no more the MVP than Allen.

 

 

They were the one seed.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The way to win the MVP:

 

Be the one seed

Have great stats

Have a great offense

 

That's it.

Or as Lamar proved by his win tonight, the stats don’t even have to be “great,” just don’t be perceived to have cost your team multiple games. 

[Einstein]

Just now, FireChans said:

They were the one seed.

 

I guess that’s what it comes down to now.

 

QB of the 1 seed… MVP.

 

Which (checks notes), would make Tannehill the MVP a couple years ago.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Well it certainly wasn’t because of his record against playoff teams (Allen had a better record).

 

And I don’t know how it could be about his margin of victory, because Allen had a 13 point MOV against playoff teams.

 

And it can’t be about TD’s - because Allen had more of those.

 

And they both won 6 of their last 7 games.

 

 

Well let’s play the same game with the Bills, shall we. Look at this…

 

Buffalo 48 Dolphins 20

Buffalo 31 Cowboys 10

 

Welp, that’s it. No other big wins against playoff contenders. No other double digit smack downs. Your “average margin of victory was 13 points” was inflated by these two games. The Ravens had more double digit wins and more dominate performances against playoff teams. Why is this so hard to understand? Take off the homer glasses, the Bills were fortunate to eek out a few of those wins against playoff contenders.

[FireChans]

Just now, Brand J said:

Or as Lamar proved by his win tonight, the stats don’t even have to be “great,” just don’t be perceived to have cost your team multiple games. 

I think Lamar had a pretty great year.

 

He had a passer rating over 100, 29 TD's to 7 INT's when he was sitting or barely playing in blowouts. He was 15th in passing yards (again while sitting in blowouts and missing week 17. He was 22nd in rushing yards. And his team was the one seed.

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The way to win the MVP:

 

Be the one seed

Have great stats

Have a great offense

 

That's it.

 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I guess that’s what it comes down to now.

 

QB of the 1 seed… MVP.

 

Which (checks notes), would make Tannehill the MVP a couple years ago.

 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

the Bills were fortunate to eek out a few of those wins against playoff contenders.

 

4 of the Bills 5 wins against playoff teams were by a TD or more.

 

Hardly an eeking, and I think i’m one of the last posters anyone on this forum would label a homer.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

Or as Lamar proved by his win tonight, the stats don’t even have to be “great,” just don’t be perceived to have cost your team multiple games. 

 

If you're going to have a bad game, don't do it in a national primetime game like Josh did against the Jets. Do it in a game no one is watching. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401547460/ravens-steelers

 

And make sure to throw the ball away or take a sack on 4th down rather than 'risk' a turnover. 

 

4th & 2 at PIT 23

(0:13 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) L.Jackson pass incomplete deep right to Z.Flowers [C.Holcomb].

 

4th & 7 at BAL 28

(0:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) L.Jackson sacked at BLT 22 for -6 yards (T.Watt). PENALTY on PIT-T.Watt, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 15 yards, enforced between downs.

[The Wiz]

10 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Or as Lamar proved by his win tonight, the stats don’t even have to be “great,” just don’t be perceived to have cost your team multiple games. 

So now defensive letdowns are a QB stat as well?

 

Honestly asking.

 

QB: I drove the field and we were winning after the two minute warning

Defense: Thanks, we're gonna let them score though


National media: Josh Allen hurts his team too much.

Edited February 9 by The Wiz

[julian]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The way to win the MVP:

 

Be the one seed

Have great stats

Have a great offense

 

That's it.

Only Lamar had hood stats.. kind of

[SoonerBillsFan]

5th *******place? Damn the media hates Allen.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I think Lamar had a pretty great year.

 

He had a passer rating over 100, 29 TD's to 7 INT's when he was sitting or barely playing in blowouts. He was 15th in passing yards (again while sitting in blowouts and missing week 17. He was 22nd in rushing yards. And his team was the one seed.

 

 

Oh yeah, Lamar’s year was pretty good, I even said he played phenomenal at times, but there were other QBs with better stats and probably other players who were more valuable, so that’s what I was getting at when I said he didn’t have to put up “great” numbers. If his defense wasn’t as strong and they had to rely on him to do more, they likely lose more games and the more he loses, the further that MVP trophy gets away from him.

[Herc11]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The way to win the MVP:

 

Be the one seed

Have great stats

Have a great offense

 

That's it.

Be the one seed

Have average stats

Have a great defense

 

 

Fixed it for you in relation to 2023

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Oh yeah, Lamar’s year was pretty good, I even said he played phenomenal at times, but there were other QBs with better stats and probably other players who were more valuable, so that’s what I was getting at when I said he didn’t have to put up “great” numbers. If his defense wasn’t as strong and they had to rely on him to do more, they likely lose more games and the more he loses, the further that MVP trophy gets away from him.

Meh, the more games they had to rely on Lamar, his counting stats probably go up.

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

4 of the Bills 5 wins against playoff teams were by a TD or more.

 

Hardly an eeking, and I think i’m one of the last posters anyone on this forum would label a homer.

I’m sorry, what? 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I think Lamar had a pretty great year.

 

He had a passer rating over 100, 29 TD's to 7 INT's when he was sitting or barely playing in blowouts.

 

To put what you’re calling a great year into perspective, in 2022 a player had nearly identical stats to Lamar’s 2023 campaign.

 

99 passer rating, 31 TD, 7 INT’s.

 

His name was Jared Goff and he didn’t receive even a single MVP vote. Not even a second or third plate vote.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Meh, the more games they had to rely on Lamar, his counting stats probably go up.

So would the mistakes.

[Herc11]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think Lamar had a pretty great year.

 

He had a passer rating over 100, 29 TD's to 7 INT's when he was sitting or barely playing in blowouts. He was 15th in passing yards (again while sitting in blowouts and missing week 17. He was 22nd in rushing yards. And his team was the one seed.

 

 

If your going to mention Lamar missing week 17 then you have to include all the times Allen sat early do to their lead in the beginning of the season.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Herc11 said:

Be the one seed

Have average stats

Have a great defense

 

 

Fixed it for you in relation to 2023

Only 4 QB's who played 15 games or more had a passer rating over 100.   There's nothing average about that.

[Einstein]

 

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

I’m sorry, what? 

Not sure what you didn’t understand. The Bills had 5 wins against playoff teams. 4 of  those came by a TD or more.

[Blank Stare]

17 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Damar was closer to the Victor Allotey award than comeback player of the year.  

Blast from the past there. Think I have that dude’s autograph floating around here somewhere. Priceless!

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

To put what you’re calling a great year into perspective, in 2022 a player had nearly identical stats to Lamar’s 2023 campaign.

 

99 passer rating, 31 TD, 7 INT’s.

 

His name was Jared Goff and he didn’t receive even a single MVP vote. Not even a second or third plate vote.

I think that team missed the playoffs. They weren't the one seed.

 

And Lamar didn't win the MVP in 2022. He won it in 23.

 

Do I admit that Lamar Jackson's stats were not the Star Wars numbers variety we typically see with MVP's?  Sure.

 

But since 2009, only 3 MVP's were not the one seed in the conference. AP on the Vikings. Matt Ryan on the Falcons. And Peyton Manning on the Colts.

 

It's the way the award typically goes. You can rail about it all you want.

[julian]

Lamar wasn’t even in the conversation in any serious way until he put up a 5 TD game late in the season that allowed any serious consideration to begin.

 

 Allen will not win it unless or until he has a single season INT season that prevents the talking heads from continuously bashing him over and over day after day week after week, you can’t believe the actual voters would listen to that all year and then cast a vote in his name.

 

FOUR straight 40+ TD seasons lol.. the numbers this dude is putting are are absolutely ridiculous… we’re very lucky to be Bills fans right now

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

If your going to mention Lamar missing week 17 then you have to include all the times Allen sat early do to their lead in the beginning of the season.

I don't think that's a 1-1 comparison.

 

Missing a whole game, which is anywhere from 60-70 snaps, is not the same as missing 8-10 snaps in 3 or even 4 games as an aggregate.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think that team missed the playoffs. They weren't the one seed.

 

 

You missed the point. I was pointing out that Lamar’s stats weren’t great. They were Jared Goff 2022 level.

 

 

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not sure what you didn’t understand. The Bills had 5 wins against playoff teams. 4 of  those came by a TD or more.

Oh okay, I read that as “more than a TD,” like, you know, the five the Ravens had. Not a missed Hail Mary by the Bucs, or a punt return against the Dolphins to eek out wins.

[BullBuchanan]

People arguing that Allen should have been MVP over Lamar while I'm sitting here thinking that it should be a punishable offense that he was given more points than Tyreek Hill or Stroud
 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

You missed the point. I was pointing out that Lamar’s stats weren’t great. They were Jared Goff 2022 level.

 

 

Jared Goff's stats in 2022 were pretty good. Your point was that he didn't receive MVP votes, and he shouldn't have. Because his team won 9 games and missed the playoffs.

[Herc11]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Only 4 QB's who played 15 games or more had a passer rating over 100.   There's nothing average about that.

You picked one stat and it was QBR. Who cares about that made up metric. You could of at least said his rushing yards, which was the only great stat he had

 

5 minutes ago, julian said:

Lamar wasn’t even in the conversation in any serious way until he put up a 5 TD game late in the season that allowed any serious consideration to begin.

 

 Allen will not win it unless or until he has a single season INT season that prevents the talking heads from continuously bashing him over and over day after day week after week, you can’t believe the actual voters would listen to that all year and then cast a vote in his name.

 

FOUR straight 40+ TD seasons lol.. the numbers this dude is putting are are absolutely ridiculous… we’re very lucky to be Bills fans right now

Exactly!

 

Until they ran out of QB options because Dak and Purdy blew it, Lamar wasn't even an after thought. All of a sudden they had to scramble and find the next QB pick after Purdy crapped the bed. 

 

 

Edited February 9 by Herc11

[90sBills]

33 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

I disagree actually. I think he’s generally well liked. 

 

But the general attitude toward the Bills is that they are good and sometimes great, but destined to choke. I think we’re viewed as a good team now, but in the end we’re still losers. 

 

Josh is living under Mahomes shadow. It’s going to be this way until the Bills win a Super Bowl. Why would the media spend time liking Josh when then could be giving that attention to other people and teams who don’t have legendary choke jobs and honestly a kind of cursed vibe attached to them. 

 

Those are obviously not my feelings toward Josh and the team, but I do believe it’s how a lot of other people view him and the team. It doesn’t matter how many incredible moments he has because in the end they come up short and it’s pointless and painful. 

The media has been riding the Bills and Allen since the 13 sec game. They’ve been rewarded with disappointment after disappointment. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

You picked one stat.

 

He was 8th in total TD's while being tied for 26th in total INT's. 

There's 3.

[gobills404]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

People arguing that Allen should have been MVP over Lamar while I'm sitting here thinking that it should be a punishable offense that he was given more points than Tyreek Hill or Stroud
 

 

I think it should be punishable offense than you think a WR was more valuable to their team than Josh.

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, julian said:

Lamar wasn’t even in the conversation in any serious way until he put up a 5 TD game late in the season that allowed any serious consideration to begin.

 

 Allen will not win it unless or until he has a single season INT season that prevents the talking heads from continuously bashing him over and over day after day week after week, you can’t believe the actual voters would listen to that all year and then cast a vote in his name.

 

FOUR straight 40+ TD seasons lol.. the numbers this dude is putting are are absolutely ridiculous… we’re very lucky to be Bills fans right now

he could throw less than 10 TO's and that will still be the narrative.  He won't because he doesn't have the receivers to run wide open like the other QBs do but hopefully that changes next year.

[Einstein]

Just now, Brand J said:

Oh okay, I read that as “more than a TD,” like, you know, the five the Ravens had. Not a missed Hail Mary by the Bucs, or a punt return against the Dolphins to eek out wins.

 

It’s almost like games are more than the scores, huh?

 

You point out the Bills needing a punt return TD against Miami but don’t mention how Baltimore blew out Cleveland the first game because Dorian Thompson-Robinson (a 3rd stringer) was their starting QB.

 

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

People arguing that Allen should have been MVP over Lamar while I'm sitting here thinking that it should be a punishable offense that he was given more points than Tyreek Hill or Stroud
 

 

 

What I find interesting is that 24 out of the 50 voters left Josh entirely off their ballot. In what world does he not deserve at least a top 5 vote for this season ? 

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Jared Goff's stats in 2022 were pretty good.

 

That’s closer to accurate. “Pretty good”

Definitely not great.

 

So the path to MVP is have “pretty good” stats and be on the #1 seeded team.

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

I think it should be punishable offense than you think a WR was more valuable to their team than Josh.

I don't recall any Allen receptions this season but agree with what you were getting at.

[Herc11]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

He was 8th in total TD's while being tied for 26th in total INT's. 

There's 3.

8th would make him pretty close to average. Certainly not something to quote when saying he was the best. I don't give him the ints because his attempts are lower than everyone else. A better number would be attempts/int ratio. Im at work so I'm not going to dive into figuring that out right now. Also, if your going to talk about ints with a running QB youve got to include fumbles.

 

I edited my last post about the one stat. There you will find my thoughts on QBR. 

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

That’s closer to accurate. “Pretty good”

Definitely not great.

 

So the path to MVP is have “pretty good” stats and be on the #1 seeded team.

And have a great offense. I posted the recipe earlier for you.

[Herc11]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

What I find interesting is that 24 out of the 50 voters left Josh entirely off their ballot. In what world does he not deserve at least a top 5 vote for this season ? 

Josh has haters, period. He has since day one and these people can't suck up their pride and admit they were wrong.

 

The media should not be voting for these awards. Completely biased opinions.