Shortchaz Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, HomeTeam said: Diggs ain't going anywhere for at least the next 2-3 years. Make peace with that. Neither are the bills unfortunately 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: What? 77 targets, 47 receptions (61%), 600 yards, 4 TDs in 8 playoff games. That’s 6 catches for 75 yards a game on average. Let me guess, not good enough. Yeah 6 for 75 and half a TD per game isn’t good enough.. especially when he has been MIA in all the losses. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, FireChans said: This calls their objectivity into question. Even in their Diggs' contract takes (which I begrudgingly listened to), they start off talking about how he still has value, how he's still a WR1, how they think he's very valuable to the Bills, then talk about how his contract is "unmovable." Are they saying that because they actually believe it, or because they want it to be true? Once that question needs to be asked, you aren't worth my time. I’m not “carrying a Bone” for Cover1’s objectivity - I have my own set of concerns with some of their analysis. But to the bolded point - the reason Diggs’ contract is “unmoveable” for the next couple of years has to do with the impact of 3-4 years of signing, option, and restructure bonuses accelerating onto this year’s cap if he’s released - not because Digg’s contract is prohibitive to potential trade partners. Diggs is due to get $18M in salary for the next couple years. He’s like 13th in receiving yards and 10th in 1st downs, Paying him what the trade partner would be on the hook for ($18M for the next 3 years) would slot him in about 15th - 17th in the league, which makes him a reasonable value for money. A team with a rookie QB and a lot of cap space could find that attractive. The trade partner could restructure this year’s salary if they wished. By the same token, in objective metrics a guy who is 8th in receptions/game, 13th in receiving yards, and 10th in 1st downs is by a number of objective metrics a #1 WR in this league and still has value. He’s also very valuable to the Bills because he’s still far and away the best WR on the team, especially during the regular season. Seems like a strange criterion to dis off Cover1 for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 19 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I’m not “carrying a Bone” for Cover1’s objectivity - I have my own set of concerns with some of their analysis. But to the bolded point - the reason Diggs’ contract is “unmoveable” for the next couple of years has to do with the impact of 3-4 years of signing, option, and restructure bonuses accelerating onto this year’s cap if he’s released - not because Digg’s contract is prohibitive to potential trade partners. Diggs is due to get $18M in salary for the next couple years. He’s like 13th in receiving yards and 10th in 1st downs, Paying him what the trade partner would be on the hook for ($18M for the next 3 years) would slot him in about 15th - 17th in the league, which makes him a reasonable value for money. A team with a rookie QB and a lot of cap space could find that attractive. The trade partner could restructure this year’s salary if they wished. By the same token, in objective metrics a guy who is 8th in receptions/game, 13th in receiving yards, and 10th in 1st downs is by a number of objective metrics a #1 WR in this league and still has value. He’s also very valuable to the Bills because he’s still far and away the best WR on the team, especially during the regular season. Seems like a strange criterion to dis off Cover1 for I think you missed the point. they don’t WANT Diggs to be moved. They make comments to that effect, then claim that he CAN’T be moved. It has very little to do with the trade partner take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) I maintain that when it comes to non-cap guarantees, fans like to look at it that it doesn't matter. It's just ignored. It does matter. Cap hit or not, 18.5 million dollars is still 18.5 million dollars. And that is guaranteed to him on 3/17. Teams don't pay a player that much money, cap or no cap, to not be there. Save for some multi 1st Round QB Trade or something. Edited February 21 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Am I correct that a Trade of Diggs (pre 3/17 when he’s due 18.5 mil in cash) would cost us only an extra 3.25 or 3.5 mil in addition to his current hit against the cap this year? Can someone please verify or give the correct figures? Thanks If this is the case, it’s not unreasonable to think 1.) the Bills would eat an extra 3-4 mil this year (and yes 20+mil next year) if both sides feel it’s time to move on 2.) a team with a lot of cap like HOU or CHI might be willing to part with a 1st round pick in exchange for Diggs + mid + late round picks & pay him the $ Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Am I correct that a Trade of Diggs (pre 3/17 when he’s due 18.5 mil in cash) would cost us only an extra 3.25 or 3.5 mil in addition to his current hit against the cap this year? Can someone please verify or give the correct figures? Thanks If this is the case, it’s not unreasonable to think 1.) the Bills would eat an extra 3-4 mil this year (and yes 20+mil next year) if both sides feel it’s time to move on 2.) a team with a lot of cap like HOU or CHI might be willing to part with a 1st round pick in exchange for Diggs + mid + late round picks & pay him the $ 18.14 in Dead Cap on a pre 6/1 Trade. The way I see it, any way you slice it, we're paying +18m for him in Dead Cap or Salary. https://overthecap.com/player/stefon-diggs/3994 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: 18.14 in Dead Cap on a pre 6/1 Trade. The way I see it, any way you slice it, we're paying +18m for him in Dead Cap or Salary. https://overthecap.com/player/stefon-diggs/3994 So wait, his current cap hit is 27.8 mil and a trade pre 6/1 frees up 9.7 mil in cap space this year? Am I looking at that right? If Terry Pegula is saving 18.5 million in actual cash & the Bills are gaining cap space of 9.7 this year, 14.8 in 2025 and 21 mil in 2026…. IMO those things make a trade before 3/17 much more likely than originally thought Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: So wait, his current cap hit is 27.8 mil and a trade pre 6/1 frees up 9.7 mil in cap space this year? Am I looking at that right? Not sure all the specifics. But no team is paying 18m in Dead Cap for 9m in Cap Space. And Diggs is worth way more than 9m in Cap Space. You won't get near a WR of Diggs' caliber for 9m. Let alone also taking 18m in Dead Cap on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Not sure all the specifics. But no team is paying 18m in Dead Cap for 9m in Cap Space. And Diggs is worth way more than 9m in Cap Space. You won't get near a WR of Diggs' caliber for 9m. Let alone also taking 18m in Dead Cap on top of it. But…you’re paying $ regardless? So it comes down to how much both sides want to continue this the way I’m viewing this is: 27.8 million cap = Diggs on the team. Cool. Maybe he’s still elite WR1. But, there’s risk his attitude is a negative or his play declines 18.1 million cap = Diggs traded for 9.7 million cap savings + valuable asset gained + fresh start for Josh Allen Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, Warriorspikes51 said: But…you’re paying $ regardless? So it comes down to how much both sides want to continue this the way I’m viewing this is: 27.8 million cap = Diggs on the team. Cool. Maybe he’s still elite WR1. But, there’s risk his attitude is a negative or his play declines 9.7 million cap savings + valuable asset gained + fresh start for Josh Allen Yeah, no. This goes back to what I was saying. You and others view it as "we're paying it either way, so what does it matter?" That's not how teams think. Money, whether it's cap or not, is money being paid.They think "we're paying it whether he's here or not, so why wouldn't we just keep him?" All year long, during the Offseason, during the season, and after the season - it was the same refrain. "We need a true #2 for Josh so that he's not relying exclusively on Diggs". It didn't happen. Some guys stepped up in the Slot, but when Davis fell off a cliff and especially when he was out of the lineup completely - we saw Diggs' production fall. That wasn't a coincidence. As teams, who already blanketed him, could afford to cover him even harder. So now that we are going to provide both he and Allen with help, why would we now get rid of him? He could have a renaissance with another playmaker taking pressure off him. Even with the "drop off", he still was top 10 in Receptions at the end of the year. Still top half of the league in yardage. He didn't just go from what he was putting up throughout his career and the first half of the season to completely done. You mention a fresh start for Allen. But he doesn't want that. He's been asked multiple times this offseason and he's said the same thing - he loves Diggs. He doesn't want him to go anywhere. He sees much more on the horizon for them. Long story short, we're paying him a ton of money either way. So if you're doing that either way, you keep him. There's a GREAT chance that he'll be able to do more with a playmaker alongside him and won't be worked down to the wick by the end of the year, and Josh Allen doesn't want it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Considering the above, I’ll go ahead and guess…. Diggs + 2025 3rd + 2024 6th to Houston For 23rd overall Bills going into the draft with 23 & 28 gives us the chance to get pretty high if we wanted Nabers. Perhaps a move up from 23 to Seattle at 16 to ensure Brian Thomas Jr. Or maybe you even hit the jackpot by staying at those picks and landing Thomas Jr + Troy Franklin 6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Yeah, no. This goes back to what I was saying. You and others view it as "we're paying it either way, so what does it matter?" That's not how teams think. Money, whether it's cap or not, is money being paid.They think "we're paying it whether he's here or not, so why wouldn't we just keep him?" All year long, during the Offseason, during the season, and after the season - it was the same refrain. "We need a true #2 for Josh so that he's not relying exclusively on Diggs". It didn't happen. Some guys stepped up in the Slot, but when Davis fell off a cliff and especially when he was out of the lineup completely - we saw Diggs' production fall. That wasn't a coincidence. As teams, who already blanketed him, could afford to cover him even harder. So now that we are going to provide both he and Allen with help, why would we now get rid of him? He could have a renaissance with another playmaker taking pressure off him. Even with the "drop off", he still was top 10 in Receptions at the end of the year. Still top half of the league in yardage. He didn't just go from what he was putting up throughout his career and the first half of the season to completely done. You mention a fresh start for Allen. But he doesn't want that. He's been asked multiple times this offseason and he's said the same thing - he loves Diggs. He doesn't want him to go anywhere. He sees much more on the horizon for them. Long story short, we're paying him a ton of money either way. So if you're doing that either way, you keep him. There's a GREAT chance that he'll be able to do more with a playmaker alongside him and won't be worked down to the wick by the end of the year, and Josh Allen doesn't want it. IMO it comes down to what the actual relationship is between the Bills and Allen with Diggs. If the Bills don’t like what’s going on behind the scenes…. Or Diggs may have said to them he’d prefer to be elsewhere…. Then 60/40 he’s traded because Pegula saves a bucket of physical cash & the team gets rid of a headache (in theory!!!) I’m not in the organization and have no way of knowing what actually goes on with Diggs Josh Allen is not the kind of person to throw a team mate under the bus in the media. Even if he actually wanted a fresh start from Diggs….no one would know about it. Maybe not even Beane or Sean. & yes I agree he could absolutely tear it up if a legit player is added to help him Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: But…you’re paying $ regardless? So it comes down to how much both sides want to continue this the way I’m viewing this is: 27.8 million cap = Diggs on the team. Cool. Maybe he’s still elite WR1. But, there’s risk his attitude is a negative or his play declines 18.1 million cap = Diggs traded for 9.7 million cap savings + valuable asset gained + fresh start for Josh Allen My read is if Bills trade Diggs pre June 1 the dead cap is $31m. Same dead cap if they cut him before March 18th when his $19m 2024 salary becomes guaranteed but they can spread the $31m over 2 years if they designate him as a post June 1 cap causality. People are too focused on the Bills being $50m over the cap right now when at least $50m can be freed up pain free and will be in the next 4 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: My read is if Bills trade Diggs pre June 1 the dead cap is $31m. Same dead cap if they cut him before March 18th when his $19m 2024 salary becomes guaranteed but they can spread the $31m over 2 years if they designate him as a post June 1 cap causality. People are too focused on the Bills being $50m over the cap right now when at least $50m can be freed up pain free and will be in the next 4 weeks. yes you have dead cap hits, but you’re also saving $ and IF IF IF there are real issues, fractured relationships, negative attitudes behind the scenes….you’re moving on from that too PLUS adding draft capital IMO the way most are approaching this situation is like we’re paying huge amounts of additional $$$ penalty if he’s off the team. That’s not it at all. He’s being paid no matter what. But, we’d actually save money and cap space by moving him (unless I’m completely ignorant and if so I apologize haha) Professional sports teams move on from contracts all the time and still pay $ to the coaches or players years after the fact. Obviously it’s not ideal, but it can help your team in multiple ways too Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Considering the above, I’ll go ahead and guess…. Diggs + 2025 3rd + 2024 6th to Houston For 23rd overall Bills going into the draft with 23 & 28 gives us the chance to get pretty high if we wanted Nabers. Perhaps a move up from 23 to Seattle at 16 to ensure Brian Thomas Jr. Or maybe you even hit the jackpot by staying at those picks and landing Thomas Jr + Troy Franklin I've said it once, I'll say it a million times - even in the (at best) extremely unlikely scenario we move Diggs - there's no way we'd move him to Houston. Houston was in the final 4 in the AFC. Just like we were. They are a direct competitor with us. We would not help them build their roster to compete with us harder. 25 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: IMO it comes down to what the actual relationship is between the Bills and Allen with Diggs. If the Bills don’t like what’s going on behind the scenes…. Or Diggs may have said to them he’d prefer to be elsewhere…. Then 60/40 he’s traded because Pegula saves a bucket of physical cash & the team gets rid of a headache (in theory!!!) I’m not in the organization and have no way of knowing what actually goes on with Diggs Josh Allen had multiple interviews where he was asked about Diggs. He could have said nothing at all. He could have said as little as possible. He chose to elaborate how important Diggs is to him, how much he loves him, and how much he wants him to stay with him. Likewise, Diggs called Josh Allen his brother, his family for life, and also said he doesn't want to go anywhere. Those things fly in the face of your theories to move him COMPLETELY. Yet you're still on it. You keep saying 'IF' to things that have been publicly addressed to not exist. And Pegula doesn't SAVE a bucket of physical cash cutting him. He COSTS a bucket of cash for the right to spend even MORE cash, on lesser players. It's not even close to 60/40 on the likelihood of what you're misguidedly hoping for. I know you're infatuated with this years Draft Class. There's some good looking players in there. And we're going to get one of the best ones. But your obsession with getting two of them, at the cost of a player that Josh Allen himself says "helped make him who he is" - is extremely short sighted. Edited February 21 by BillsFanForever19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I've said it once, I'll say it a million times - even in the (at best) extremely unlikely scenario we move Diggs - there's no way we'd move him to Houston. Houston was in the final 4 in the AFC. Just like we were. They are a direct competitor with us. We would not help them build their roster to compete with us harder. Josh Allen had multiple interviews where he was asked about Diggs. He could have said nothing at all. He could have said as little as possible. He chose to elaborate how important Diggs is to him, how much he loves him, and how much he wants him to stay with him. Likewise, Diggs called Josh Allen his brother, his family for life, and also said he doesn't want to go anywhere. Those things fly in the face of your theories to move him COMPLETELY. Yet you're still on it and floating out potential problems that have been publicly discounted. And Pegula doesn't SAVE a bucket of physical cash cutting him. He COSTS a bucket of cash for the right to spend even MORE cash, on lesser players. I know you're infatuated with this years Draft Class. There's some good looking players in there. And we're going to get one of the best ones. But your obsession with getting two of them, at the cost of a player that Josh Allen himself says "made (him) who he is" - is extremely short sighted. adding two potential 21 year old difference makers in the draft is anything except short sighted my friend. Josh Allen and Diggs also BOTH said they don’t know what the future holds if I recall. They aren’t going to air their dirty laundry to the media. 99% of pro athletes won’t ever until at least after it’s over with Pegula has to pay him $$$ no matter. If he can save 18.5 million dollars by moving on from a player that may want to leave…. there are multiple people on here, one especially who have proven track records of 100% accuracy on team news who have shared what they’ve heard regarding Diggs. It ain’t pretty. Oh and KC traded Tyreek Hill within the conference and they weren’t scared. If he can be moved in the AFC, any WR can be Edited February 21 by Warriorspikes51 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 30 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Yeah, no. This goes back to what I was saying. You and others view it as "we're paying it either way, so what does it matter?" That's not how teams think. Money, whether it's cap or not, is money being paid.They think "we're paying it whether he's here or not, so why wouldn't we just keep him?" All year long, during the Offseason, during the season, and after the season - it was the same refrain. "We need a true #2 for Josh so that he's not relying exclusively on Diggs". It didn't happen. Some guys stepped up in the Slot, but when Davis fell off a cliff and especially when he was out of the lineup completely - we saw Diggs' production fall. That wasn't a coincidence. As teams, who already blanketed him, could afford to cover him even harder. So now that we are going to provide both he and Allen with help, why would we now get rid of him? He could have a renaissance with another playmaker taking pressure off him. Even with the "drop off", he still was top 10 in Receptions at the end of the year. Still top half of the league in yardage. He didn't just go from what he was putting up throughout his career and the first half of the season to completely done. You mention a fresh start for Allen. But he doesn't want that. He's been asked multiple times this offseason and he's said the same thing - he loves Diggs. He doesn't want him to go anywhere. He sees much more on the horizon for them. Long story short, we're paying him a ton of money either way. So if you're doing that either way, you keep him. There's a GREAT chance that he'll be able to do more with a playmaker alongside him and won't be worked down to the wick by the end of the year, and Josh Allen doesn't want it. Diggs has zero guaranteed money left on his contract, so if we cut him before March 17th Bills don’t owe him another penny. It’s just a matter of accounting for the $31m in remaining bonus and restructuring cap charges. That’s not real money. It’s already been paid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Diggs has zero guaranteed money left on his contract, so if we cut him before March 17th Bills don’t owe him another penny. It’s just a matter of accounting for the $31m in remaining bonus and restructuring cap charges. That’s not real money. It’s already been paid. this would be even further proof that the “CAN’T MOVE HIM!” Crowd is way off base. I’m thinking it’s the emotional aspect of it. I mean, I’ve loved the guy since 2020 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Someone knows something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Someone knows something Who's going to be Josh's go to guy if Diggs is moved?? 🤷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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