Josh made the right call to go for the TD

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Of course, to make this statement, you have to ignore that Allen had a lifetime to see Jones coming as he stood there motionless in the pocket instead of taking a half step forward or to the right. If you want to claim that he only missed because he was interfered with, then he should have done the bare minimum to not be interfered with. We all know he's capable of it. We shouldn't accept it as a legitimate excuse.

A lifetime to make that throw?  Me thinks you exaggerate a bit here.

 

It's actually insane the way Bills fans are analyzing this one play.  It's obvious what happened:  Allen choose to go for the TD hitting an open Shakir and missed the throw because the pass rusher pushed the tackle into him.  An for this we've had a ten page thread.  Nitpicking Allen seems to be a favorite activity for some Bills fans.

 

 

 

 

[Man with No Name]

has anybody looked at how much time allen had from the snap to when he let go of the ball? i don't know enough to say whether he should have felt that pressure quickly enough to step away from it. 

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

A lifetime to make that throw?  Me thinks you exaggerate a bit here.

 

It's actually insane the way Bills fans are analyzing this one play.  It's obvious what happened:  Allen choose to go for the TD hitting an open Shakir and missed the throw because the pass rusher pushed the tackle into him.  An for this we've had a ten page thread.  Nitpicking Allen seems to be a favorite activity for some Bills fans.

 

 

 

 

It is more the play call, the time left on the clock and the down and distance. Diggs was never even looked at so appears he was being used as decoy to draw coverage. So I don’t have issue with Josh throwing to his primary read. I have bigger issue with Brady calling it at that spot. If they attempted that on first down no one would have cared. However, that entire series of play calls cost team the game there. On both 2nd/3rd and long they should have been scheming someone underneath to get open close to that first down marker to get another set of downs.
 

If it was close enough going for it on 4th. I rather put ball in my best player’s hand in Allen and losing versus going for a FG if KC had timeouts and enough time on the clock to drive back down for winning FG. The only way I was settling for FG in that situation if it was 4th and long or we had drained enough time off the clock that odds were in our favor that OT was likely.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Man with No Name said:

has anybody looked at how much time allen had from the snap to when he let go of the ball? i don't know enough to say whether he should have felt that pressure quickly enough to step away from it. 

Here's my issue with those claiming Allen could have just stepped up into the pocket on that play. If Dawkins was pushing Jones to the outside it would have been a simple matter of moving up into the pocket. But Jones was driving Dawkins STRAIGHT back into the QB.  If Allen had stepped up into the pocket Jones disengages from Dawkins and tackles him as he steps up. I guess Dawkins could have held him and hoped the Ref doesn't see it but there is no way that an all pro like Jones isn't fully aware of Allen's threat to step up and throw or run the ball.   

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Man with No Name said:

has anybody looked at how much time allen had from the snap to when he let go of the ball? 

 

2.48 seconds from ball hitting Allen’s hands, to Allen’s wind-up. 

 

Time to release was 2.69 seconds.

Edited January 28 by Einstein

[Bermuda Triangle]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:09 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They were probably determining PI or Illegal contact based on where the football was at the moment of contact.   Whether they got the exact call right isn't really that material.........they properly called a penalty which resulted in a short gain and an automatic first down.   Dorian Williams clearly looked at the receiver and threw his body into him to impede his progress toward the point where Mahomes threw the ball.

Contact within 5 yards of the LOS, prior to the ball being thrown, is legal.  Bad call.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

2.48 seconds from ball hitting Allen’s hands, to Allen’s wind-up. 

That's quite a short lifespan.

 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That's quite a short lifespan.

 

 

ALL DAY

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That's quite a short lifespan.

 

Very.

 

Mahomes average time to throw this season was 2.97 seconds.

 

Lamar Jackson was 2.95 seconds.

 

CJ Stroud was 3.04 seconds.

 

 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

It’s so funny. A Bass field goal with two mins left,, and we would have for sure seen the Chiefs go down and do what the Bills were trying to do (allegedly)—score with no time left. And I wished it would’ve happened that way on McDermott’s defense. If we were going to lose, I wish it at least lead to his removal. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

2.48 seconds from ball hitting Allen’s hands, to Allen’s wind-up. 

 

Time to release was 2.69 seconds.

Which is a lot of time. Only Lamar Jackson(2.7), Russel Wilson(2.7) and Justin Fields(2.8) had more to to throw on average this season. No excuse to not make the throw.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

[Einstein]

23 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Which is a lot of time. Only Lamar Jackson(2.7), Russel Wilson(2.7) and Justin Fields(2.8) had more to to throw on average this season. No excuse to not make the throw.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

 

Straight from the NFL…

 

Mahomes averaged 2.97 seconds per throw.

Lamar averaged 2.95 seconds per throw.

Hurts averaged 3.03 seconds per throw.

Herbert averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Murray averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Goff averaged 2.77 seconds per throw.

Piedy averaged 2.88 seconds per throw.

 

2.48 and 2.69 is quite fast.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

 

 

Edited January 28 by Einstein

[Man with No Name]

18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Which is a lot of time. Only Lamar Jackson(2.7), Russel Wilson(2.7) and Justin Fields(2.8) had more to to throw on average this season. No excuse to not make the throw.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

pocket time is not how long until you face pressure, it is how long until you release, which often comes without pressure. and when you are throwing a bunch of balls 0 to 5 yards down the field, that is bringing the average way down. 

[BullBuchanan]

13 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

pocket time is not how long until you face pressure, it is how long until you release, which often comes without pressure. and when you are throwing a bunch of balls 0 to 5 yards down the field, that is bringing the average way down. 

Incorrect. You could have at least tried.
 

[Man with No Name]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Incorrect. You could have at least tried.
 

average time between snap and throwing ball. 

 

OR pressure. 

 

and they often throw the ball without pressure, and those throws are included in the average. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

average time between snap and throwing ball. 

 

OR pressure. 

 

and they often throw the ball without pressure, and those throws are included in the average. 

What point are you trying to make here that isn't the same point I made?

[Man with No Name]

those averages  are how long they TOOK to throw. Not how long they HAD to throw.  for all kinds of different routes. you can't extrapolate a generalized stat like that into "He should have gotten rid of the ball quicker" on a 30 plus yard route. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

those averages  are how long they TOOK to throw. Not how long they HAD to throw.  for all kinds of different routes. you can't extrapolate a generalized stat like that into "He should have gotten rid of the ball quicker" on a 30 plus yard route. 

And josh TOOK 2.69 Seconds to throw, which on average is longer than all but 3 QBs in the NFL.

It was a bad throw, but a worse decision. He should have hit Diggs or Kincaid underneath and ran out the clock. Instead, Hollywood Josh took over and lost the game.

Edited January 28 by BullBuchanan

[Man with No Name]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

And josh TOOK 2.69 Seconds to throw, which on average is longer than all but 3 QBs in the NFL.

It was a bad throw, but a worse decision. He should have hit Diggs or Kincaid underneath and ran out the clock. Instead, Hollywood Josh took over and lost the game.

again, you are taking a generalized stat of ALL throws and extrapolating to a 30 yard route. get out of here. he didn't have all day, unfortunately. and it was the right call to throw to the open man in the end zone. the end. 

[Einstein]

27 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Incorrect. You could have at least tried.
 

 

What irony.

Again, straight from the NFL…

 

Mahomes averaged 2.97 seconds per throw.

Lamar averaged 2.95 seconds per throw.

Hurts averaged 3.03 seconds per throw.

Herbert averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Murray averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Goff averaged 2.77 seconds per throw.

Piedy averaged 2.88 seconds per throw.

 

2.48 and 2.69 is quite fast.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

 

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

which on average is longer than all but 3 QBs in the NFL.

 

Wrong.

[BullBuchanan]

26 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What irony.

Again, straight from the NFL…

 

Mahomes averaged 2.97 seconds per throw.

Lamar averaged 2.95 seconds per throw.

Hurts averaged 3.03 seconds per throw.

Herbert averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Murray averaged 2.8 seconds per throw.

Goff averaged 2.77 seconds per throw.

Piedy averaged 2.88 seconds per throw.

 

2.48 and 2.69 is quite fast.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

 

 

Wrong.

Take that up with the guys putting together the stats. There isn't a definition there of time to throw, so you can't argue that it's wrong or not. Given that the data is wildly different, It would make sense that their measurement is different.

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

so you can't argue that it's wrong or not

 

Uh, yeah you can.

The stats I gave you is provided direct from the NFL and collected with RFID chips in players pads and the football.

 

Yeah, you trust that one, over the fantasy website. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Uh, yeah you can.

The stats I gave you is provided direct from the NFL and collected with RFID chips in players pads and the football.

 

Yeah, you trust that one, over the fantasy website. 

I don't know why you guys insist on arguing about things on the internet without even looking up the definition of the things you're arguing about. It's a different measurement.

That said, I'd rather debate the bad decision to throw the ball there in the first place. Maybe I should be grateful that that he didn't complete the throw, because had he made it,we would have had to hear the ridiculous argument that it was defense's fault that we lost because "he left the field with the lead".
 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't know why you guys insist on arguing about things on the internet without even looking up the definition of the things you're arguing about. It's a different measurement.
 

 

So you used a stat that had a definition that doesn’t fit the argument?

 

Uh, ok.

 

But as we all said, 2.48 seconds and 2.69 seconds is not long. It’s less time than the average of top passers in the league.

 

As for the decision to throw, it was the right one.

 

 

[Warcodered]

As dumb as this whole debate always was, looks even dumber today.

[Niagara Dude]

No I disagree,  they score and Mahomes still has almost 2mins left.  Allen should have run or passed to Diggs ,  get another first down and burn a little more clock before trying to score or kick game tying FG.  Brady screwed up the final set of downs by calling stupid run up the middle and Chiefs were expecting it. That should have had Allen with pass/run option and they were giving us pass underneath.  Not sold on Brady or McDermott in coaching/play calling and we just don't have enough talented player to overcome our margin of error

 

We let them off the hook and that team will now win another Super Bowl and just add more depth this offseason and be even harder to beat next year.  They have so many players all over especially on defence and unlike us are not wasting 20 million in cap space for a #1 WR that is not a big play maker in big games. That is a big problem right now,  Diggs makes loads of money and never comes up big in these games against KC

[Niagara Dude]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:05 AM, Success said:

I am beyond tired of the national hand-wringing about that play.  It was THERE.  I've actually heard fans argue that what Allen SHOULD have done is to just keep picking up small chunks, and then score a TD with just a few seconds left on the clock.

 

As though you can script something like that perfectly.  Then there is a holding penalty, or sack, or turnover, or you just can't get in the endzone.  Allen saw Shakir wide open for 6, and he went for it.  And, as we all know, if Chris Jones gets there a half second later, that's a TD and we're likely up by 4.

 

I'm like, is that the best that you've got, Allen haters?  The guy plays a great game, should have had at least 100 more yards and another TD if his receivers could hang onto the ball - and you're saying "same ol' Allen" because he went for an OPEN TOUCHDOWN.

 

And I hope Mahomes throws 3 picks this week so we can all see the double-standard.  It won't be nearly as analyzed and dissected.

 

Everyone keeps repeating that Josh blew it late,  Kurt Warner said Allen should have taken the check down to Diggs or run the ball.  He played a great game up until that point and decision making late was not good.

[zow2]

Josh did not blow anything.  He's the ONLY reason Buffalo had a shot in that game.

 

That being said the correct game strategy was to try to get the first down over the next two plays and bleed the clock dry.  Hopefully score a TD or a closer FG as time nears 0:00.   That strategy is 100% coaching and they should bear the responsibility.

[Niagara Dude]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Josh did not blow anything.  He's the ONLY reason Buffalo had a shot in that game.

 

That being said the correct game strategy was to try to get the first down over the next two plays and bleed the clock dry.  Hopefully score a TD or a closer FG as time nears 0:00.   That strategy is 100% coaching and they should bear the responsibility.

100% played amazing up until that last set of downs and goal should have been get another first down and closer for FG or game winning TD

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, zow2 said:

That being said the correct game strategy was to try to get the first down over the next two plays and bleed the clock dry.  Hopefully score a TD or a closer FG as time nears 0:00.

This strategy revolves around NOTHING bad happening on offense after getting a first down.

 

- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play Cook fumbles?
- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play the ball gets tipped and KC intercepts it?
- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play we get a personal foul that pushes us back 15 yards and makes scoring nearly impossible?

You always take the TD when it's available, because you simply do not know what is going to happen after that moment. 

Yes, in a perfect world you take the first down and score with 00's on the clock. But we live in reality.

You take the TD when you have Shakir running open in the endzone.

[Warcodered]

45 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This strategy revolves around NOTHING bad happening on offense after getting a first down.

 

- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play Cook fumbles?
- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play the ball gets tipped and KC intercepts it?
- What if he hits Diggs for the first down, and then the next play we get a personal foul that pushes us back 15 yards and makes scoring nearly impossible?

You always take the TD when it's available, because you simply do not know what is going to happen after that moment. 

Yes, in a perfect world you take the first down and score with 00's on the clock. But we live in reality.

You take the TD when you have Shakir running open in the endzone.

I've said in other threads, unless we still get the TD or win the game some other way that throw would always be used against Allen if he didn't throw it. It's all wish fulfillment of what could have been, we didn't get the result we wanted but what if we'd done something different here. It's ridiculous.

[Warcodered]

Kiper might get plenty of things wrong, but I do love when he so nicely expresses the BS with the Josh Allen shade.